I am starting to get really frustrated...

Firstly, I am not new. I forgot my old log in info and got locked out. Given password does not work. But that's irrelevant.

My ball is about 6 months old and recently was treated for a bacterial RI.
she was recieving daily injections of baytril and tazicef every 3 days. She as taken off of medications a little over a week ago as instructed by vet. she was on meds for about 6 weeks.
A few changes to her enclosure were made. No more coco substrate. Paper towels and rep carpet only. I was also instructed to lower her humidity to 30-40% and increase temps. Her temperatures as of right now are:
94.3-95° on hot side
80.2-81.3° on cool side
middle averages between 82-84°
Her humidity is at 50%

As of recently (the past few days) I have heard the popping sound again. Her mouth is the right color (side note; there is a red line in her mouth...almost lke a vein. Normal?) Light pink. No yellow stuff. No signs of mouth rot. But her saliva looks a little sticky again...
She is eating and drinking fine
No lack of appetite at all. She actually never lost her appetite during her RI either.
so what the hell? Is she going into another one? Another vet visit?. I have viles left over. So I need to put her back on meds? This is giving me a headache.

Also she weighs about 135 grams. Don't know if this is relevant but thouhht I'd add. No loss of weight. Also wanted to add that her appetite has seemed to actually increase. I upped her on food. Now at large white mice. Fed pre killed. No regurgitation.

Sometimes it takes a couple rounds of meds to completely clear up an RI. Also a lot of times if the RI keeps coming back, it is most likely related to husbandry somehow. You can take her back into the vet and have another culture done(im assuming you had a culture done in the first place to determine the exact bacteria it was and to make sure the Baytril was most effective on it). Took my beardie 2 rounds of Baytril to clear her up plus keeping her temps up and giving her heat at night as well. RIs can be a real pain to deal with.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Sometimes it takes a couple rounds of meds to completely clear up an RI. Also a lot of times if the RI keeps coming back, it is most likely related to husbandry somehow. You can take her back into the vet and have another culture done(im assuming you had a culture done in the first place to determine the exact bacteria it was and to make sure the Baytril was most effective on it). Took my beardie 2 rounds of Baytril to clear her up plus keeping her temps up and giving her heat at night as well. RIs can be a real pain to deal with.

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I just honestly don't understand how my husbandry is off. I have probably been overly paranoid about it at this point....but I'm about to switch to a tub system because this glass enclosure may just be the issue anyways. Our bedroom, where she is is always around 72 degrees. I am about to go through a move and I habe to buy a few things for the new house and money is pretty tight. Vets out here are so expensive. 75 for walking in the door. With her meds my one vet visit was around 250. I have viles left. And may just call my vet and continue her on what I have if it's suitable. because another vet vist and buying more meds right now would kill me. I am really trying hard to be a good mom so it makes me feel really bad when it's just not affordable. This is a nightmare though. I feel so bad.

Also a culture was done.

Any idea about the red line in her mouth?

Vein - perfectly normal.

Why do you have vials left? Normally the vet only gives enough meds for a full course of treatment.

Also what bcr said, you should have finished all antibiotics. The vet gives you a certain amount and that amount should be all used just like when you go to the doctor. Also I hear you, when I had to take my beardie to the vet for RI, it cost me about $270 or a bit more but I had a full blood panel done as well as the culture since she has never seen a vet and I wanted her to get a clean bill of health. Usually if you finish the meds and you animal is still sick, you can call the vet and just get a refill. That's what I did and if the second round didn't clear it up, then I would have had to go back in for a new culture and possibly switch antibiotics. My guess for you is you started the meds and then after a time your snake looked better so you quit giving meds? If that is what happened then it probably never completely was cleared up. Like I said RI can be a real pain.

I probably wouldn't switch to a tub since your ambient temp in your house is 72F. Unless you plan on using a space heater or something to heat the snake room to around 85F ambient. The set up you got temp wise in the tank is good actually. I personally think that not finishing the meds caused the bacteria to not be completely killed. Also you could call the vet and let the vet know how many vials you got left etc and ask for their advice. They might tell you to go back to the same injections for X amount of time longer and give you a refill for X amount to carry you through. Regardless though, keep the temps up so the snakes immune system stays kicked in and it will also help fight the bacteria. Also the heat will speed up the snakes metabolism making the antibiotics work faster too. Its kind of like creating a fever like in humans when you are sick to fight the cold.

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Originally Posted by calbobal

Also a culture was done.

Any idea about the red line in her mouth?

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First off, why don't you double check and make sure that you really are hearing the popping sound! I was under the notion that Baytril was given for 7 to 10 days as a injection at the regular dose of 5mg/kg for ri. Then if you gave it orally you should double the dose to 10mg/kg also for 7 to 10 days. The other medication I am not sure about that one. Maybe the reason the vet wants you to increase the temps is to allow the bp's own immunity to kick in and clear up the residual infection if there really is any. Yes, if you have meds left over and its determined positively that the ri is still present you should ask the vet if you can restart a new course of the meds. Remember, reptiles have a slow healing response and he probably will benefit from just the higher temps. Be patient and double check but let the vet know! Stay in peace and not pieces. Good luck! Don't get frustrated, get busy. :gj:

Also the Baytril is every 24 hrs at the 5 to 10 mg/kg dose depending on the route of administration. :gj:

Ok, the vet supplemented your bp's treatment with Fortaz that's probably why the Baytril was prescribed like that. IMO, you should give it time to eradicate with the higher temps. Check in with him though. :) Tazicef is the generic for Fortaz. Strong combination!

Oh I also forgot to add, if you talk to the vet, he/she might want to switch antibiotics to something like Fortaz. Depends on the vet. Like I said, mine did 2 rounds of Baytril and if that didn't clear it up, then it would be a new culture time to make sure it isn't something new and then probably an antibiotic switch. You got to remember also, antibiotics are harsh for a reptiles system. Sure they work but they pretty much wipe out good gut flora too. You should be using a probiotic as well. For a snake, maybe sprinkle some on her rat or mix some with some water and then inject it into the rat. I give my snakes probiotics every few months as just a "boost". Same with my beardie. Its good your snake hasn't lost its appetite. That is a big plus bonus.

Oh woops, guess I missed the Tazicef part. Ok so now I wonder why your vet prescribed 2 antibiotics after a culture was already done. All that is going to do is create a bacteria that will be resistant to both Baytril AND Fortaz. Usually its just one antibiotic and if that doesn't cure it, then you always have others to fall back on without creating a super bacteria. Oh well, guess your vets knows best as I'm not one :)

So snakes get sick slow and they heal slow, so it may be just some lingering noises. That said keep a close eye on it. One thing I would like to address is this comment: "(im assuming you had a culture done in the first place to determine the exact bacteria it was and to make sure the Baytril was most effective on it)". Now I know he wasn't getting on you, but cultures cost about $100 and if the RI isn't real bad then most vets will give Baytril or Tazicef a shot before the culture because most of the time this works and can save you some money. I went through this with a snake came to me with a RI. I wrote about it in the thread below. Please read the whole thread to get the full picture. And the snake that had the RI is still in perfect shape today, close to a year later, with no signs of sickness and has grown over 800 grams. Research Tylan some and ask your vet about it, couldn't hurt.


http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...the-cure-TYLAN

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Oh woops, guess I missed the Tazicef part. Ok so now I wonder why your vet prescribed 2 antibiotics after a culture was already done. All that is going to do is create a bacteria that will be resistant to both Baytril AND Fortaz. Usually its just one antibiotic and if that doesn't cure it, then you always have others to fall back on without creating a super bacteria. Oh well, guess your vets knows best as I'm not one :)

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Baytril and Fortaz target different types of bacteria, gram-pos versus gram-neg. I've had both prescribed simultaneously for my BP's with RI's.

Since the combo tends to knock out everything including beneficial gut flora, using a probiotic after the course of treatment is complete is also a good idea.

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Originally Posted by BrianDallek

So snakes get sick slow and they heal slow, so it may be just some lingering noises. That said keep a close eye on it. One thing I would like to address is this comment: "(im assuming you had a culture done in the first place to determine the exact bacteria it was and to make sure the Baytril was most effective on it)". Now I know he wasn't getting on you, but cultures cost about $100 and if the RI isn't real bad then most vets will give Baytril or Tazicef a shot before the culture because most of the time this works and can save you some money. I went through this with a snake came to me with a RI. I wrote about it in the thread below. Please read the whole thread to get the full picture. And the snake that had the RI is still in perfect shape today, close to a year later, with no signs of sickness and has grown over 800 grams. Research Tylan some and ask your vet about it, couldn't hurt.


http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...the-cure-TYLAN

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Oh I know they are expensive. $83 here but you need to make sure its bacterial and not viral or fungal as Baytril wont do squat for the last two and you will just be causing even more stress to an already immune compromised animal. My vet put my beardie on Baytril before the culture came back just as a precaution because its a wide spectrum bacterial antibiotic. I mean you can try antibiotics with no culture but imo that's like closing your eyes and throwing a dart a dartboard. Sure you can hit the bullseye but chances are you wont.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Baytril and Fortaz target different types of bacteria, gram-pos versus gram-neg. I've had both prescribed simultaneously for my BP's with RI's.

Since the combo tends to knock out everything including beneficial gut flora, using a probiotic after the course of treatment is complete is also a good idea.

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As far I knew, both Baytril and Fortax worked on gram positive and gram negative bacteria. Maybe I'm wrong but i'm just a stickler for getting a "diagnosis" aka culture done as I personally like to know what exactly im fighting. But yeah that cocktail probably works good on snakes. I've been lucky and haven't had to deal with RI in snakes, just my beardie and it was a rough month or so since the Baytril upset her stomach and since Baytril also dehydrates the animal, I was having to feed her baby food mixed with probiotics every day by syringe dropping drips on her nose for her to lick off as well as giving her oral Baytril daily...oh god it was a nightmare.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

As far I knew, both Baytril and Fortax worked on gram positive and gram negative bacteria. Maybe I'm wrong but i'm just a stickler for getting a "diagnosis" aka culture done as I personally like to know what exactly im fighting. But yeah that cocktail probably works good on snakes. I've been lucky and haven't had to deal with RI in snakes, just my beardie and it was a rough month or so since the Baytril upset her stomach and since Baytril also dehydrates the animal, I was having to feed her baby food mixed with probiotics every day by syringe dropping drips on her nose for her to lick off as well as giving her oral Baytril daily...oh god it was a nightmare.

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Yeah Baytril is really hard on their kidneys too. I think that's another reason it's recommended to keep the humidity high if the snake has an RI and is on Baytril, to help keep the critter hydrated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

As far I knew, both Baytril and Fortax worked on gram positive and gram negative bacteria.

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My vet told me that Fortaz covers a bigger spectrum than baytril, but also everything that baytril does. She said it works better for snakes.

Also as far I knew, Fortaz was only administered through injections while Baytril was oral OR injections. My vet asked if I wanted Fortaz for my beardie when she had RI but it was only injections and since I didn't feel comfortable doing that, she gave me Baytril orally for her.

Is your BP coming in to shed? As the nasal passages begin to dry, the snake can make a whistle or other sound. I took Ginger in for a check up for this.

Cheers,
pamela