Pastel enchi or super cinnamon

I have a male pinstripe, a female pastel (lemonblasts!) and will breed when they are ready. I really want to add in a third snake and have been thinking pastel enchi because I enjoy the high oranges and high yellows a lot. I recently learned about silver bullet and I really want to try for one of those. I'm just imagining what would happen if pinstripe was thrown in the mix of a silver bullet. What do you guys think?
How much do super cins usually go for?

Also, has anyone ever bred a silver bullet to a purple passion?


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Super Cinny are not very expensive $500 or less, while the Silver Bullet is an interesting project keep in mind that hatchlings and adults are very different. (nothing silver about the adult)

One thing to also consider is duck billing and kinking since the silver bullet is a Pastel Super Cinny.

I am sure Silver Bullet x Purple passion has been done, either way it's not gonna create anything new even if it hasn't been done. ;)

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Super Cinny are not very expensive $500 or less, while the Silver Bullet is an interesting project keep in mind that hatchlings and adults are very different. (nothing silver about the adult)

One thing to also consider is duck billing and kinking since the silver bullet is a Pastel Super Cinny.

I am sure Silver Bullet x Purple passion has been done, either way it's not gonna create anything new even if it hasn't been done. ;)

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Are pastels prone to kinking? I'm new so I don't know a lot about genetics let alone ball pythons. What is duck billing?

I didn't even think about it changing color as it ages lol I guess I'll go pastel enchi.


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Originally Posted by Citrus

Are pastels prone to kinking? I'm new so I don't know a lot about genetics let alone ball pythons. What is duck billing?

I didn't even think about it changing color as it ages lol I guess I'll go pastel enchi.


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Not the pastel but the super form of cinny and black pastel.

Duck billing is a deformation of the face here is an example

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...n/IMG_2189.jpg

Now it does not affect all supers cinny or black pastel but they are prone to it, that is the reason I work with black pastel combos but do not work towards supers.

Wow, are they able to eat ok with that? Nice snakes btw!


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Originally Posted by Citrus

Wow, are they able to eat ok with that? Nice snakes btw!


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I'm pretty sure both those snakes are dead...

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Originally Posted by Citrus

Wow, are they able to eat ok with that? Nice snakes btw!


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Looks like severely deformed dead snakes to me.

Like I said I do not work with supers this is just an example found online to show you what duck billing was.

Pastel enchi is a good choice out of your options :gj:.

A good resource that helped me learn about the different morphs out there, and how to distinguish them aside from constant google-searches and forum pictures is http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/

Start doing random pairings and see what you come up with. If you find something you like, hit up the classifieds to see the different prices for the morphs you like.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Looks like severely deformed dead snakes to me.

Like I said I do not work with supers this is just an example found online to show you what duck billing was.

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Originally Posted by Daigga

I'm pretty sure both those snakes are dead...

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I feel dumb now.



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pastel enchi, fire enchi, firefly. all we do great ofr cheaper than a super cinny. ( not sure fore the fire enchi)

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Originally Posted by Citrus

Wow, are they able to eat ok with that? Nice snakes btw!


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What is nice about them?

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Originally Posted by coldbloodaddict

What is nice about them?

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I like their color. Obv. not the defects. I hope that is ok with you


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and now for a different viewpoint on Silver Bullets. This is my 3 yr old boy, no kinks no duckbill. I'm not disputing these deformities occur in super cinny, but not always. I haven't hatched any out, so I can't say how high the incidence is, perhaps some of you who have can speak to this. I wouldn't hesitate to get one so long as I could see it first or if it comes from a reputable dealer.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...age_510659.jpghttp://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file.../4/5/image.jpg

I vote enchi yellowbelly.. I too like the bright orange and yellows... Look up enchi pastel yellow belly in the world of ball python morph list. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Looks like severely deformed dead snakes to me.

Like I said I do not work with supers this is just an example found online to show you what duck billing was.

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Thanks for that Deb! A real wake up call for all of us novice breeders to know that breeding is a serious undertaking that has some unfortunate consequences. " Pythons with disabilities and comorbidities". Stay in peace and not pieces. A.C. :gj:

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Originally Posted by DennisM

and now for a different viewpoint on Silver Bullets. This is my 3 yr old boy, no kinks no duckbill. I'm not disputing these deformities occur in super cinny, but not always. I haven't hatched any out, so I can't say how high the incidence is, perhaps some of you who have can speak to this. I wouldn't hesitate to get one so long as I could see it first or if it comes from a reputable dealer.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...age_510659.jpghttp://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file.../4/5/image.jpg

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That's a nice silver bullet adult specimen! I think Deb was referring to the hatchling silver bullets being prone to kinking and duck billing at birth. The adults, imo she was referring to coloration as it pertains to the color "silver". :gj:

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

That's a nice silver bullet adult specimen! I think Deb was referring to the hatchling silver bullets being prone to kinking and duck billing at birth. The adults, imo she was referring to coloration as it pertains to the color "silver". :gj:

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yeah, but Silver Bullet sounds much cooler than Grey Bullet.:P

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

That's a nice silver bullet adult specimen! I think Deb was referring to the hatchling silver bullets being prone to kinking and duck billing at birth. The adults, imo she was referring to coloration as it pertains to the color "silver". :gj:

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I don't think snakes outgrow kinks or duckbills. Kinking is like scoliosis for snakes, isn't it?

I had planned on producing super cinnamons before I was made aware of the issues around them. The mostly black snake was so pretty to me, and at the time it didn't even cross my mind that the super form would have an issue the regular form didn't (could have just googled it, shame on me and my lack of proper research). I would still love a black snake, but I don't know if I'm willing to risk those kinds of birth defects.

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Originally Posted by Daigga

I don't think snakes outgrow kinks or duckbills. Kinking is like scoliosis for snakes, isn't it?

I had planned on producing super cinnamons before I was made aware of the issues around them. The mostly black snake was so pretty to me, and at the time it didn't even cross my mind that the super form would have an issue the regular form didn't (could have just googled it, shame on me and my lack of proper research). I would still love a black snake, but I don't know if I'm willing to risk those kinds of birth defects.

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nope, no outgrowing those things

Couldn't any ball python, or snake for that matter get kinking? I know it's not a snake but if you keep tree monitors in too small a space their long tails will kink. That's a bit more controlled than just random kinking though


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The kinking and duck billing in super cinnies and super black pastels is a known genetic linked issue. Any combo that has a supper of these morphs in the mix have the risk. This is not a husbandry issue. It develops during incubation in SOME of the super babies produced, but not all. It can rage from being as mild as to mostly being a cosmetic issue, to being as bad as, well, lethal, or very next near to. Problem is, you have no way of knowing which ones will get it or how bad. Some breeders will not risk breeding cinny to cinny, or black pastel to black pastel because of this (myself being one of them), others are willing to take that risk. I personally feel that knowingly breeding snakes with risks of crippling genetic defects is an unethical practice, but I'm not gonna shout at someone else who feels the risk is worth the gain. The choice is up to you, just be aware that if you breed these morph combos, you may be faced with the very real chance of having to put down snakes that would otherwise suffer pretty awfully, or keeping special needs snakes for the duration of their lives. You have to be positive that's something you feel comfortable handling.

I'm going to go with pastel enchi, I wouldn't be able to put a snake down. Especially not one that I hatched


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Originally Posted by Citrus

I'm going to go with pastel enchi, I wouldn't be able to put a snake down. Especially not one that I hatched


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Pastel enchi it is! Certainly not a bad choice, love enchis.
be aware that there is a long list of morphs that have potential defects, including the ever popular spider.
also, just to clarify, it is the super form of cinny that suffers from these defects. a healthy super, such as my SB, mated to a non-cinny can produce cinny combos that will be unaffected.

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Originally Posted by Citrus

I'm going to go with pastel enchi, I wouldn't be able to put a snake down. Especially not one that I hatched


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I would say being prepared to put down a snake you produced should probably be a prerequisite to breeding snakes at all. Odds are, a pairing from two healthy snakes with no known genetic quirks in their makeup, will produce healthy eggs, that produce healthy babies when those eggs are incubated correctly. But things can sometimes go wrong anyway. Equipment malfunction, human error, or just plain bad luck. Snakes can come out deformed. Snakes can come out with potentially life threatening, but treatable conditions like a twisted umbilicus or "hard belly". If you plan to breed your snakes, you gotta be prepared to handle the not so nice stuff that comes along with the fun bits of getting to hatch and raise cute baby snakes.

I really should be ready for that if I'm to get into breeding. What are the quickest and most painless ways to do this? I'm thinking dry ice gas chamber.... Basically anything fast where no violence is involved


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I'm a big supporter of anyone that wants to do anything enchi related. I hatched my first super cinni combo this last year and while it is a stunning animal it doesn't hold a candle to the enchi stuff I've produced. I say go the enchi way but that's just me.