Me and my newbie questions.

Just a few more newbie questions here, before I start buying setup things... Get ready. :rolleyes:

Is there a reason why glass tanks need a heat lamp+heat bulb+undertank heater, but a Sterilite tub setup only needs one undertank heater?

Humidity in the enclosure is provided solely by the water bowl + contained enclosure?

Using a tank setup (vs. tub) seems like a much more costly option, though both options appear to work? Is the tank setup mostly just aesthetic?

I've read that BP do not need lighting, but would they be alright in truly 90% darkness all the time, just to be sure?

Also, just curious what the reason is for covering 3 sides of the tank? (I assume for the snake to feel secure)

And finally... not a question in the right forum, but could anyone recommend reliable breeders for getting a BP online? Or any known good breeders in the Orange County/LA area?

Glass holds heat poorly.

You can also get sphagnum moss that increases humidity, as well as spraying the walls/substrate regularly.

As far as I have seen, yes, a tank setup is just to add visual enjoyment to it.

Can't confirm on lighting, don't want to speak to anything I don't know for sure.

Yes, covering the three sides is to make the snake feel more secure about his environment.

Can't recommend any breeders, but a question for you. You sound a bit like me when I got the first BP, between a tub setup and a tank. Have you considered a PVC enclosure such as an Animal Plastics setup at all? It's a nice balance between tank and tub.

Oh right, I remember reading about sphagnum moss. I happen to have a ton of Java Moss from my aquariums haha.. not sure if that would work well too.

I did check out PVC enclosures from Animal Plastics, but I took one look at the price and decided against it, for now. :s I'm not the most wealthy college student at the moment + the cost of a pretty BP. From the sounds of it now though, a tub is more preferable if only because of the heat retaining compared to glass tank?

Heat and humidity. Depending on where you live, humidity can be the killer.

Edit: Not like literally kill your snake, it doesn't usually get that bad, just the difficult thing to get right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nodnarb3do

Heat and humidity. Depending on where you live, humidity can be the killer.

Edit: Not like literally kill your snake, it doesn't usually get that bad, just the difficult thing to get right.

---

I live in Southern California and it is pretty darn dry here most of the year.. :please: At its worst though, assuming I'm too busy to spray water, would placing two water bowls in the tub be detrimental? Or yeah, adding a clump of wet sphagnum moss would work.... Fumbles. xD

More or larger water bowls. For humidity, you want more surface water. The moss can help, but if your humidity isn't great make sure you stick some of it, moist, in his hot hide. He'll still be fine to get in there and push it around, and it gives him a humid area whenever he feels the need. Great for sheds.

Thanks for the tips. :) That works for me.

Also, how often should we normally change out the aspen substrate?

Spot clean regularly (poop, that sort of thing), take everything out, sanitize the enclosure, and get new substrate about once a month. That's general advice, and I don't use aspen, so if someone else says otherwise, listen to them.

If your worried about humidity get the eco earth compressed bricks put em in a bucket of water wait 30 minuets and your set for humidity for at least a month with just misting daily

I would bypass the glass tank option considering you're a desert dweller, humidity will be a constant battle.
An AP cage large enough for an adult BP can be had for under $200 plus shipping. Are you sure you can afford to feed the snake?

A couple of things I can think of off the top of my head. Having done both glass tanks and now running tubs I've picked up a few tips along the way, almost all by making the same mistakes everyone else has.

First: Humidity in a glass tank isn't always as bad or as hard as it sounds, if your tank has a screen top the key is to cover up about 85% of it. Some will do simple cardboard wrapped in Tin foil, others have done Saran Wrap. I decided to do mine in Plexiglas held in place by velcro incase I wanted to move or remove them. If you're using substrate, Cypress mulch is the most moist and can be misted to keep it moist when things dry out. I use to mix about equal parts cypress and aspen to keep the humidity right and I though it looked nicer than just one or the other alone. If you're still having humidity issues than the use of a humid hide in the tank is the easiest way to go, do a search for examples of them. Adding more bowls of water doesn't really increase the humidity in the air spraying with a good quality mister will put molecules of water into the air a lot better.

Second: Heating. A lot of us use racks because its easier to run heat tape under the tubs or a heat panel in the back of the rack. In addition most of us keep the ambient temps in our snake rooms on the high side so that the cool spot runs in the low 80's. The trouble with a heat lamp on top of a tank is it sucks all the humidity out of the tank, but if you're insisting on the tank and you can't keep your ambient room temp around 80 or so then you will likely need it to create a basking spot. I have seen people do a large tub with a heat lamp on top but this is dangerous as these snakes can really climb and I've seen plenty of snakes with burns due to a poor setup, plus I think they look ugly. I would do a glass think with a heat lamp suspended above the screen long before ever doing a stand alone tub with a lamp.

Lastly: make sure you can measure your temps and regulate your heat properly. The biggest mistake I've seen is people going cheap on a proper thermostat or skipping it altogether and doing some serious damage to their animals. Don't use the cheap dial thermometers and hygrometers from Petco/Petsmart they are just a waste of money you could have spent elsewhere. Buy an Infrared temp gun ($25 to $35) and a digital hygrometer with a wired probe so only the probe is in the tank. As for a thermostat if you're going to do a UTH or RHP (on any type of setup) you must control it. To give you an idea on thermostats there are cheaper options from Zoo Med but the least I've ever spent is $100 on a Vivarium Electronics 100 (I have 3 of them now), up to $400 for my Herpstat 4 (which is the best thermostat out there IMHO).

I think you could easily do a glass tank set up with a mostly covered screen top and a thermostat controlled UTH for the hot spot and a small heat lamp for a basking spot (if you're not able to keep ambient temps near 80 degrees). Use cypress mulch and possibly a humid hide to keep your humidity where needed and mist the tank when the humidity drops too low. Then just be sure to provide a hiding spot over the Heat and another in a cooler part of the tank so he can thermoregulate his body temps. Keep an eye out for Petco's $1 a gallon tank sales they run them a few times a year so you could literally pick up a 40 gallon tank for only 40 bucks!

I have two animal plastics T8's.. and they are perfect if you are going to have ONE snake.. and i ordered a Radiant Heat Panel from pro-products and had it shipped to animal plastics and they will install for you.. the t8's are a quick ship item and will be shipped generally 14 days after you order.. Now i say the animal plastic cages are great for ONE snake is because the racks are more economical if you plan on getting more than one snake.. (found out the hard way) I got one ball python and now have 7.. :D so spending $150 plus shipping on a ap cage vs $200 on a rack that holds 6 tubs... i think you get my point.. i will just advise you.. breeding one pair of mice then going to rats will save you a BOAT LOAD of cash in the long run.. if you buy your feeders from a pet store.. your wallet will hemorrhage..

Anyways.. that's my 2 cents..

Dennis, feeding won't be a problem in the long run. A dollar or three a week isn't a big deal, but I'd still like to save money wherever I can, especially if tubs work well. =)

And thanks much for the detailed reply Jeff! I'd be following the tub setup guide in this forum with the same equipment, so hopefully no cheapo mistakes will happen there. :) As for tank or tub, overall it sounds like tub is the more simple option then.. It's awesome that the option is also so open for me when done right, but the tank isn't appealing enough for me aesthetically even in comparison, so it's not a big deal. :gj:

Ohh the AP T8 is definitely tempting! (It's only $150 right now) Argh, I'm dreaming right now that I'll eventually end up with more than one snake in the future as well, but I can't say I'm sure yet hahah.. I have these BP-breeding side-hobby dreams. LOL.
And thanks for the note about the mice and rats- that's actually exactly what I was thinking, especially if balls prefer it live to begin with. I can't even imagine how much money that would save me. xD

I am also a newbie of sorts (work at an exotic vet), and I went with a tub as they are easier to maintain. I had experiences trying to keep humidity right at the clinic and it was ridiculous.

The moss has worked really well, I used the tiniest of tiny bits and it keeps the humidity well.

As for breeders I went to Royal Constrictor Designs and he was awesome to work with. Very kind and answered all my questions. The shipping process was easy and my snake didnt seem distressed at all. On top of that my snake is beautiful and is a fantastic eater.

If you are worried about budget, keep in mind that you will need a decent thermostat. There are some out there for $30 or you can get a light dimmer for a little less then that but remember, you get what you pay for. A good thermostat will cost you $100 or more. If you realisticly think you will want more BPs in the future then maybe look into buying or building (saves money) a rack system. A word of warning though, if you buy a 5 tub rack, you will find yourself quickly filling them up. These guys are addicting!

Sweet. :gj: Sphagnum Moss, here I come.
I also heard good things around here from Royal Constrictor Designs! I'm hoping he would be willing to pick out the most docile/handler-friendly for me as a first snake, when I get around to it.

Hahah... if I buy a 5 tub rack, I WILL quickly fill it up. In fact, knowing myself, I'll be eye-twitching and stalking faunaclassified and any sale forum night and day for perfect snakes and deals to fill it up as fast as possible before I will be happy. LOL. That said, I think I'll start out with one tub for now and see where my snake obsession flies from there.

And finally... another newbie question, because I can't google the answer. :s What's the meaning of all the abbreviations for feeding? F/T and all that? Or any other common abbreviations used around here that I should already know by now?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redshepherd

Sweet. :gj: Sphagnum Moss, here I come.
I also heard good things around here from Royal Constrictor Designs! I'm hoping he would be willing to pick out the most docile/handler-friendly for me as a first snake, when I get around to it.

Hahah... if I buy a 5 tub rack, I WILL quickly fill it up. In fact, knowing myself, I'll be eye-twitching and stalking faunaclassified and any sale forum night and day for perfect snakes and deals to fill it up as fast as possible before I will be happy. LOL. That said, I think I'll start out with one tub for now and see where my snake obsession flies from there.

And finally... another newbie question, because I can't google the answer. :s What's the meaning of all the abbreviations for feeding? F/T and all that? Or any other common abbreviations used around here that I should already know by now?

---

Look at Bobclark.com ... i got a pair of mojave's from him and they are the BEST snakes ever.. laid back.. NEVER strike at me.. very schedule oriented snakes.. i called and talked to bob myself and he assured me he would get the best pair he had.. these two NEVER miss a meal.. now the babies i have.. i finally got one to eat last night.. (2 months old) such a relief but my Lesserbee wont eat yet.. she's shy.. but i've heard SO many good things from Bob Clark reptiles!