Competing with lowballers

So I picked up a breedable sandfire bearded dragon at a show the other day, 20" long, 376 grams and19 months old.....ready to go. The people i got her from sold her for $75. Awesome deal I know but it concerns me.

They also sold 2 other adults, about 10 4 month old dragons for $40, and 6 or 7 3 month old dragons for $30. Fair prices on these animals would be $150-$175, $60-$75 and $40-$50 respectivley. All color and all quality animals.

By 4 months a bd should have cost $75 to raise it that long.

How am i supposed to compete with people like this, it is very frustrating. In the past when i bred dragons i always answered the question "why are your dragons $65 when those other ones are $30?" with "look at the coloring, I know my bloodlines and buy expensive parents."

Well this argument will be null and void with these people because they have some really nice stuff.

Fortunately I am producing leatherbacks so i have that going and have a couple extremely nice dragons coming.

One is paid for and awaiting shipping weather, and I am still shopping for a dunner.

It really sucks, I only do one show that they do but my tables are right next to theirs. I think I will have to push more dragons on FB.

Would it be out of line to suggest they increase their prices?

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Originally Posted by andyroof1979

Would it be out of line to suggest they increase their prices?

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Yes.

It doesn't matter what business you're in, what you're selling, and what show, in my experience I have come across this problem many times.
It's called business and it's a fact of life.

You just have to find your own niche or out smart the other guy/gal.

Best of Luck :)

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Yes.

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10x yes, it would be.

Thats called price fixing.

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Originally Posted by h20hunter

10x yes, it would be.

Thats called price fixing.

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No it is not, and the term you are looking for is collusion

Collusion...or price fixing would be us agreeing to sell our dragons for $XX.

I was thinking of telling them to charge what the market will bear as opposed to selling at an outright loss. This would be good for everyone.

Or i could tell them that I'll trade them 2 twenty dollar bills for three all day long.

They don't realize it, but they messaged me on fb this morning interested in my last baby leatherback

I may be incorrect in my term use, sorry. However, asking another booth to charge more is simply unprofessional. The market is what the market is. Kind of like value. If the booth next to you wants to sell for $1 that is their choice. The "market" is now changed. If they change their prices, or you do, then the market has changed again. If your animals are above average quality and you charge above average buyers you will attract less buyers because you are in a different catagory. The everyday person looking for a pet will simply not be interested in your wares. It is not a slight to you, your prices, or animals. It is simply fact.

Just like in the bp world....exotic morphs and other unique animals cost a premium. Sounds like you are selling high end next to "normals". So really, you sell the same animals but cater to different markets.

I would imagine that if they're charging less than what it costs to put into the animal in the first place all the time, then they aren't going to be selling next to your table, or anywhere at all for that matter, for very long. The answer to the "why are your animals more expensive?" question remains the same: because you think they're worth that. You know their bloodlines, you've put time into their care and development. If you sell that aspect confidently when at your venue, people will notice, and it will stand out. When the other guy is undercutting the market, the answer remains the same no matter what you're selling. Quality service, and quality product will keep people coming back.

That one from my favorite breeder. I can find cheaper, but I buy many snakes from him /quality, support, professionalism/ Isn't true?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...e6a3103ec&dl=1

They will be out of the hobby in a bit so don't worry. There is no money to made selling animals for $25-30 dollars they are already bleeding cash like a sieve.

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Originally Posted by Ransack

They will be out of the hobby in a bit so don't worry. There is no money to made selling animals for $25-30 dollars they are already bleeding cash like a sieve.

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You are assuming that they care about making money with the hobby. I bled a lot more cash each month when I was showing my horse as a hobby than I ever have fooling with snakes as a hobby - and there was no money coming in with the horse, it was all going out!

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Originally Posted by andyroof1979

So I picked up a breedable sandfire bearded dragon at a show the other day, 20" long, 376 grams and19 months old.....ready to go. The people i got her from sold her for $75. Awesome deal I know but it concerns me.

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Are you complaining about the same people that you bought the dragon from for a cheap price saying it's too cheap? Doesn't that just void your argument?

Why would you support the same people you're complaining about? I dont get it...

[emoji29] [emoji29] [emoji29]

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Originally Posted by Mr. Misha

Are you complaining about the same people that you bought the dragon from for a cheap price saying it's too cheap? Doesn't that just void your argument?

Why would you support the same people you're complaining about? I dont get it...

[emoji29] [emoji29] [emoji29]

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What was i supposed to do, tell them I'd pay double for it. They don't even realize it was me that bought the thinghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...0bdc9dee1d.jpg

At least one of them doesn't, then she was on FB wanting to buy mine...go figure

But i guess to answer you question, i NEEDED a breedable female, this was the best at the show.

I not sure I understand your actions. Or your complaint. But I've heard your 3 cents, so here's my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by andyroof1979

At least one of them doesn't, then she was on FB wanting to buy mine...go figure

But i guess to answer you question, i NEEDED a breedable female, this was the best at the show.

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In this case you just got a really great deal.

If they breed to make some profit too, they'll upper their prices with time. With that strategy they can win customers and reputation if do good, step by step they can get higher prices like their competitors. Sounds interesting like marketing idea.

If they want just cover the needs of their collection.. well.. that's an other thing.

I have asked a few people and saw rhem at a few shows before i started vending again. They sell baby babys for 20, they dont care about money, an older lady and her daughter

So there's a chance their doing it for enjoyment. What an awful thing.:rolleyes:

Or they just know that if they sell them cheap they sell a lot. I do it for fun too but I'm no fool and know how to make a dime and put value on my time.

Doesn't make sense to tank the market. They drive 1.5 hours each way. I think they don't know how to make money so they sell them dirt cheap to move them and cover their cost.

This is why i am frustrated...long post, was my reply on another forum. Hopefully this sheds light and shows I'm not just a hater.

I always have gotten my animals from people who ordered their parent animals from well known sources. Chris Allen, Sunshine Dragons, Daichu, Fire and Ice, etc.

My first ever dragon Pyro was a chris allen red/ orange sunburst x red flame/ cawley orange, produced by a good friend of mine. He knew where he got his animals from. I even bought a blood x chris allen red from him, actually he gave it to me when I built his reptile room for him. I want to know where my people get their stuff from.

The little red number I am waiting to get shipped to me was produced by a breeder who buys parents from Daichu and the like. His babies hatch out at a 4.5" average. As far as the sandfire goes, yes that term is used a bit loosely. I take it to mean colorful dragon that looks sandfireish. Frisky is pretty close and I am sure has some sandfire blood in her.


The Dunner's I am not completely sure how they started, all I know is that they were "noticed to be different looking" in some random clutch of Kevin Dunn's. However they seem to be reputed to be very robust dragons, boasting good size, pattern, and color. Also being a co-dominant morph, it was easily outcrossed.

I plan on purchasing my dunner from one Mr. Chris Allen himself. We will see how that turns out and you know I will be posting when I get him in a few months....I am thinking no later than June, I may even go and pick him up from the Hamburg, Pa show instead of ordering him online.

Then when you consider Bruiser, my normal colored, 641 gram Italian leatherback I purchased from my primary insect source (Gordos Feeder Bugz) I will have a diverse gene pool with color and robust size to factor in.

I will pair Frisky to Bruiser, and Scarlett (dragon i am waiting for) to my yet to be acquired Dunner.

Now then with all that said, i am going through a lot of trouble to produce top shelf lizards, and this is what makes it so frustrating to have to deal with these lowbllers. They aren't bad people, it is a 50ish lady and her 30ish daughter. I don't think they know how to sell the higher end/ quality aspect all they know is how to price cheap and the dragons sell themselves. Me on the other hand am an unemployable entrepreneur, hence why I am a self employed roofer to begin with, so I take my hobby very seriously.

I had a very good name for myself before my wife and I split up and I took 3 years off of reptiles. I am used to competing with $30 normals, but not $60 animals listed for $30. My color/ quality/ bloodline response is going to be a tough sell now. At least at this show. I have sold 15 $70 dragons at one show a couple times competing with $30 normals, and would have sold more had i brought them.

I am going to have to step up hide production so I can do a couple other shows in Michigan as well and maybe 1 or 2 in Indiana. I do adhere to the 6 week or 6" rule and will leave any I just don't feel are ready to move on yet at home and all my dragons eat bugs and greens (at least some greens) before moving on, reputation is everything in this business. I will be pushing more dragons on FB and holding more back to the 5-6 month stage to separate myself from the competition. I did sell my last baby on FB. I posted it in 8 groups and within 20 minutes had 2 sales fall through, one come through and 1 in line if that didn't work out....oddly enough it was the lady i got Frisky from ...go figure. I probably would not have sold him to her as to not help her produce exactly what I will be producing and selling it for 1/3 the value.

I do this because I love working with the animals, BD's especially, they are my favorite reptile hands down. I have made a lot of bad choices and will probably never be able to fully retire, this is part of what I am planning for a semi retired life. I have well thought out plans as you can read above and come hell or high water I will be a profitable reptile breeder. I am determined.

I think i am going to give them a couple of my fake rocks to put in their baby tanks they bring to the show, that way it gets my hides some attention from them being displayed. Worked well in the past, i had a few friends display them with their animals, and it seemed to send more customers my way.

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Originally Posted by andyroof1979

I think i am going to give them a couple of my fake rocks to put in their baby tanks they bring to the show, that way it gets my hides some attention from them being displayed. Worked well in the past, i had a few friends display them with their animals, and it seemed to send more customers my way.

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There ya go.

That's the kind of stuff you do to separate yourself from your competition. :)

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Put your tortoises in a dimmed enclosure at an expo. Get a small battery powered led light ring and set it on the tortoises shell. Put them in the dimmed enclosure. Sell them +50$ of the original price as "rave tortoises"

If any of you do that, send me a picture. Seriously.

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I figured it out....you buy it low from them and sell it for 3x what you paid for it!

You forget some people will look at price alone and see your price and say to themselves well this must be better because it costs more even if its two identical things. They do it with Escalades, restaurants and many other products to include reptiles.