Should I switch?

Hey again y'all. I have more questions for Mangle, this time for her meal time…
I am considerering switching her over to live. She hasn't been eating any frozen or thawed. I might just try to feed her live. I have an extra small cage that I can keep the mouse in until feeding time. Should I try it?

If she isn't eating anything else I would try

She is an adult or close to it (about 4 feet) and had no interest in the mice I thawed. Nothing.
I am just a bit concerned she'll get hurt from the mouse. Her eyes are still cloudy and have a bit of a crack on them. I think she's shedding.
Ill get a mouse tonight after school so I can feed her tonight.

If you feed live you need to supervise the feeding, and keep something like a pair of tongs ready to put in the mouse's mouth if it starts biting.

Looking at your other threads I see that you have made many changes in a short period of time. That alone can make a snake not want to eat.

For feeding f/t you do not need to move the snake to another bin. This only increases your odds of getting bit by a snake that is in feed mode. It also can stress the snake out by removing it from its home and putting it in a new environment at which point you then want it to eat.

In your other threads I suggested you used water to thaw the rat and then tried to feed it. How did you warm the prey up and what temp did you present it at? The body temp of a living mouse is about 100F so the f/t needs to be the same. This can be achieved by using hot water(I do it that way) but letting a prey item thaw and then serving it is not a good way to present it to your snake.

To better your odds feeding in a dark room at night works well. Make sure its quiet and the snake is not bothered by anything when it gets near feeding time. When I feed its completely dark except a red bulb in a lamp.

I could try that.
I thaw them in warm water. I heat up the water, then put the mouse in it. I really hope she'll eat tonight. If this doesn't work for her, then I'll go to live.

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Originally Posted by Manglewantsmacaroni

She is an adult or close to it (about 4 feet) and had no interest in the mice I thawed. Nothing.
I am just a bit concerned she'll get hurt from the mouse. Her eyes are still cloudy and have a bit of a crack on them. I think she's shedding.
Ill get a mouse tonight after school so I can feed her tonight.

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If she's in blue and not eating, you might want to consider just leaving her alone until she's done shedding. Some of them don't eat during the shed cycle. There is zero harm in waiting until after she sheds at this point. It'll also give her a couple of days of quiet since you seem to be offering her food fairly often.

Offering prey to often can add more stress to the snake and only make the situation worse. If I have a snake refuse a meal they are not offered again until the next schedules feed day.

I haven't offered food since last week. I wasn't sure what I should do so I talked to you all first.

If she is in shed don't try to feed her, she will just become more stressed out. It is a gross option but have you tried braining the food? it involves cutting open the skull, revealing the brain so the scent entices the snake to eat?? That's always a option. Hope this helps you and i hope she eats :)

The mice I feed her have tiny cuts in them that smell nasty, but hopefully gets her attention. I really hope she'll eat soon. After shedding.

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Originally Posted by Manglewantsmacaroni

The mice I feed her have tiny cuts in them that smell nasty, but hopefully gets her attention. I really hope she'll eat soon. After shedding.

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Why? They shouldn't.

They also should not smell nasty. It sounds as if you got a bad feeder.

well, after they are warmed. Warm mouse guts are not the nicest smelling thing

Do they smell rotten, or just like a mouse that's been frozen and reheated?

I'm just a beginner but i have been feeding my bp live and she hasn't had any problems. I prefer feeding live.

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Originally Posted by Manglewantsmacaroni

well, after they are warmed. Warm mouse guts are not the nicest smelling thing

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They should not smell. Did you refreeze and then thaw it again?

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Originally Posted by BallPython.Fanatic

I'm just a beginner but i have been feeding my bp live and she hasn't had any problems. I prefer feeding live.

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Live can work but as the snake gets larger so does the prey. I have fed live before and I hate it when I would get a rat with something the live for that started biting my snake. I also don't want to deal with buying 8-9 live rats each feeding either.

Im sure if I was interested in rat breeding it would be easier but I have no desire to do that either.

These snakes can go up to a year without eating. Leave it be with no change for a week and a half, get an appropriately sized f/t mouse and appropriately sized f/t rat. Try to offer the mouse, if no luck then the rat. If he doesn't want it then throw the food away, and try live.
How are you defrosting the food? This can make a big difference.


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I keep them frozen. I never refreeze them. If food is refused, It is thrown away.

That's good. But how are you defrosting? In hot water, warm water, cold water? Are you putting the mouse in a plastic bag prior to this, or are you just putting the mouse straight into the water? Some snakes will not take wet food items, while others will only take it if it's damp. If it's not warm enough that can be a problem also.
This is my process: put sink on at the hottest it goes and let it heat up. Put a plastic up under the water and fill. Put f/t in bag, and push into the water, it will float so I push it down to allow some water to get on top. I check the time and come back in 40 minutes. I feel it to see if it's all soft, and if it is I immediately feed it so it doesn't lose heat.


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I put the mouse in a bag, then in the water. The mouse is not wet at all.
I have a spare cage that I have a live mouse in, and I kept the receipt if the mouse isn't consumed, Im keeping the feeding attempt supervised.

I attempted to feed her again and yet again she refused to bite. Even with live.
I might try a dizzying technique for her safety. Otherwise, I can return the mouse to the store.
Show long should I wait to feed her?

Describe exactly what you did step by step so we can see what may be going wrong.

First off, if the feeder stinks and has cuts in it, then that just sounds fishy and personally I wouldn't even try to offer something like that. Second if the snake is in shed, some snakes wont eat in shed. Third, adults can go a very long time without food. As long as its not losing lots of weight, its ok. Also some snakes just need longer to settle in than others so I would try once every 2 weeks. What was the snake eating before you got it? Live mice? Live rats? F/T of either? Also are the temps and everything good? Does the snake have hides and feel secure? There are a lot of reasons it might not be eating. I personally just buy live rats and do cervical dislocation to them for my BCI and BP and then just hold em by the tail and dangle them infront of the snakes and they tag em almost instantly. Anyways, you might want to give a rundown of temps in the cage, how long you've had the snake, what it was eating before and when it last ate. Info like that will help. Also if you feed live, I wouldn't stun or dizzy them or do anything that will put them into a defense mode, just drop em in and let them wander around. It's kind of like if you poked a rat with a sharp stick and pissed it off, then tried to reach in and grab it, you are more likely to get bit vs a rat that is just wandering around calmly in what it thinks is a new enclosure.

I just dropped the mouse in there (not rat) and let it wander a bit. I turned off the lights, but shone a very mild light on them to make sure Mangle wasn't hurt. She did react a little, but the mouse was very quick. After some time, I took the mouse out. I am keeping him (the mouse) in a separate cage (critter keeper) until the next offering. I have the receipt if I want to return him.
I do not know when Mangle was last fed, since she was abandoned by her owner and there is no history.

If you must shine a light get a red bulb or a red or blue flashlight. Do not have the room light on at all before feeding. You want the snake not to be disturbed in any way the day of feeding. When its time to feed be as quiet as possible and deliver the meal. Then just stand back and make sure all goes well. Do not create any shadows or block the light in a manner that the snake will be distracted by it.

I believe you are doing to much and need to leave your snake be until it starts eating well. This may take some time but the more it is bothered the longer it will go on.

Your gonna need to feed your new pet if you are going to keep it a whole week.

Definitely good tips. I waited two weeks before her offering with no luck. Oh, and I did get some mouse food for Dinner (thats what I named him) and he has a cage with a small water dish.

I just replied in your new thread about shedding. You need to let the snake shed before trying to feed it right now.

good idea. its been quite a bit of time with the clouding. I am spraying her to keep her moist. I am excited for her first shed.
Also, it might seem weird, but I also like to hold the mouse. He is pretty tame, and Likes to crawl around… Dinner is fun to play with…
Talk about playing with food XD

Actually when they are in blue, they don't need to be sprayed down as the blue is actually the liquid between their new and old skin. The time when they need humidity higher is after their eyes clear up which is usually a day or two before they shed. And for humidity, 50-60% works fine for both my snakes. After he sheds the 2 biggest things to check on the old skin is that both eyecaps came off and then check the tip of the snakes tail to make sure there is no shed stuck on that.

here eyes are starting to clear a bit. I was worried she was sick or something. I am looking forward to her first shed.
Also, should I avoid handling her before she sheds or can I hold her a bit?
I don't want to stress her out.

I personally avoid handling during shed time as both my BCI girl and my BP girl get kind of cranky during those times and usually spend most of the time in their hides, well my BP is in her hide a lot but my BCI really only uses her hide when shes shedding. I've heard people say handling during blue can screw up the shed but who knows. I mostly don't do it because like I said, both my snakes get kind of cranky then. Since your snake is fairly new, I would say no, you shouldn't handle her during shed. I don't offer food or handle during shed.

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Originally Posted by Manglewantsmacaroni

here eyes are starting to clear a bit. I was worried she was sick or something. I am looking forward to her first shed.
Also, should I avoid handling her before she sheds or can I hold her a bit?
I don't want to stress her out.

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How many times must it be said to leave the snake be? Leave it alone until it sheds and then leave it alone until it eats. Then leave it alone a few days after it eats.

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Originally Posted by KMG

How many times must it be said to leave the snake be? Leave it alone until it sheds and then leave it alone until it eats. Then leave it alone a few days after it eats.

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This^^^

You keep asking questions and getting good advice; leave the snake alone, don't touch it. Only go into it's enclosure for cleaning and maintenence. There's nothing to worry about; they can go a long time without eating. Chances are once it is done shedding it will be hungry again.

I understand your want to handle, but you must leave it be. If you keep handling it may never eat. My pinstripe made a whistle last night and I had to check his mouth for mucus, now he seems stressed and will probably not eat tonight for me. If the snake is still new id give him a while of minimal handling (just to clean cage, change water, etc.) and then after he has shed or eaten, begin to handle but only once a week. And don't handle after you feed him because he may spit the food out.
It can take up to twenty minutes to get some snakes to eat, I saw a video where a guy was feeding his hatchlings and he literally sat there with the f/t and made it dance for twenty minutes before the snake took it.
If you have a heat light, turn it off and move it away from the cage during feeding. My pastel couldn't differentiate between the mouse and the heat light until I turned it off and pointed it the other way.
Wait two days no handling, and go near the cage as little as is possible. Then AT NIGHT (like 6:00-8:00) attempt to feed. Gently place the mouse in the cage and just walk away and come back in five minutes and look from the other side of room, uneaten, leave and come back in another five minutes and then if the snake isn't out and about remove the feeder.


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Don't walk away while feeding live. Citrus was referring to the f/t you were starting out with. Watch the live feeding from across the room preferably out of view of the snake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manglewantsmacaroni

She is an adult or close to it (about 4 feet) and had no interest in the mice I thawed. Nothing.
I am just a bit concerned she'll get hurt from the mouse. Her eyes are still cloudy and have a bit of a crack on them. I think she's shedding.
Ill get a mouse tonight after school so I can feed her tonight.

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the largest mouse is too small for a 4 ft snake. Time to move up to small rats. BPs are well known for their winter time hunger strikes, just try feeding once every couple of weeks. She'll feed again when she's ready. Stop worrying and consider all the good advice you've received in this thread.

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Originally Posted by KMG

Don't walk away while feeding live. Citrus was referring to the f/t you were starting out with. Watch the live feeding from across the room preferably out of view of the snake.

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Sorry about that should have specified :).



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As I said, I want to be sure I am caring for Mangle well. I am not trying to irritate you all. I am just new and a bit insecure. I haven't handled her yesterday and won't today. Good advice. Please don't get angry at me though. I am just trying to get help. I am also new.

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Originally Posted by Manglewantsmacaroni

As I said, I want to be sure I am caring for Mangle well. I am not trying to irritate you all. I am just new and a bit insecure. I haven't handled her yesterday and won't today. Good advice. Please don't get angry at me though. I am just trying to get help. I am also new.

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Plenty of new owners here need help. Its just frustrating when we are trying to help you when you dont seem to trust our advice and ask the same questions over and seem to not follow the information given.

You need to relax and know that nothing happens quickly when you're dealing with snakes. They are on their own schedule and don't care about what you want at all. They even seem to do the exact opposite of what their owners want. Snakes are snakes and they are weird.

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Originally Posted by KMG

You need to relax and know that nothing happens quickly when you're dealing with snakes. They are on their own schedule and don't care about what you want at all. They even seem to do the exact opposite of what their owners want. Snakes are snakes and they are weird.

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I'm a new owner of like a month and if I had read that before I got my snakes or during my first week ad a half, things would have gone easier. I.e I wouldn't have stressed over everything and overthought every detail. Someone make this post a sticky or something.


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Some snakes take a long time to get used to you, some take a short time, some never enjoy you. Its up to the snake but my advice is to not handle and mess with them until they have eaten at least 3 meals with no problem. You can open the cage and change water, spot clean etc, just don't mess with their hides so they get used to your smell as not being a threat and bothering them. After they eat normal, then you can slowly work with them by picking them up and working in 5-10 min sessions and up the length every couple weeks. Like I said though, some snakes adjust faster and some snake species are more tolerant. My BCI girl had no stress and ate like a champ and now almost 2 years later, I leave her cage door open and she will sit with her head on the litter dam for hours just looking outside or she will curl up in a ball next to the open door and sleep. She loves to be petted on the head and body and overall likes my attention. My BP girl ate after 2 days of being home and acclimated very fast except she was head shy for about a month. Now she is fine and doesn't mind her head touched and I can even move her while shes eating as I have to pick off aspen off her rats sometimes. She doesn't even care but again you need to work slow with them and biggest thing is to get them eating first.

good idea.
Like I said, I am still trying to get my info straightened out. Sometimes I lose track of what I post and miss questions. Forgive me.
Again, I am new and want to be sure of what is being said.
Anyway, I am really appreciative of your advice all. I am trying to take it in so I can care for her.
You are right all the way about stress. I don't want her to go through that. I am already going through enough myself and I don't want it to rub off on her. The three meals suggestion is a good one. And I won't handle her until then. She is also close to shedding (I think, her eyes cleared up). I grew up with birds and cats all my life, and I have to say snakes are a very different experience. I really appreciate your advice and help.

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Originally Posted by Manglewantsmacaroni

good idea.
Like I said, I am still trying to get my info straightened out. Sometimes I lose track of what I post and miss questions. Forgive me.
Again, I am new and want to be sure of what is being said.

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Imagine trying to be the one giving the help and keeping all the threads and post straight. Some don't make it very easy.

Prioritize your issues and conquer them one by one.
1. Husbandry
2. Feeding
3. Handling

I say until one is conquered do not move on to the next. My list was just an example.

Lol I grew up with reptiles and amphibians. Went from a kid catching bullfrogs, salamanders, newts, garter snakes, water snakes, tree frogs etc and keeping them as pets to moving on to stuff like Nile monitors, savannah monitors, pythons and boas and other stuff. Let me tell you, wild caught stuff makes a non eating ball python seem like childs play. I had a bullfrog who only would eat other frogs so I used to have to go to the local pond and catch little frogs to feed my big frog......talk about a pain lol. Not to mention I had water snakes which make GTP look tame. Those things were mean as it came but I guess I would be mean too if some kid caught me and put me in a fish tank and tried to tame me as well :P Anyways good luck and after awhile you'll pick on the signs your snake will throw you other than the obvious open mouth strike :P