BP Not eating, afraid of food?

Hi, I am a new ball python owner and while I've already read up on everything I need to know to care for her, there's still some things I need help with immediately. I've talked to the reptile manager at the pet store where I bought her from and he told me what I should be doing to feed her. We've put her in a big enough container to feed (separate from her living container) and let her get adjusted to it and she's doing all the typical signs of feeding but she won't eat. She acts almost as if she's afraid of her food? I've had the reptile manager select a live rat that he would feed her to make sure it's not too big or too small for her and she still refuses to eat it. We left her in the container with the rat for about 20 minutes now and she followed the rat around the container visually for a bit and coiled up in preparation to strike but soon as the rat turned and smelled her nose in curiosity, that was it, she was done. She won't touch it anymore and she does her best to escape. The RM says he's fed her live, fresh killed, and frozen so she wouldn't develop a sort of preference when it comes to feeding. This is the second week she's done this (exact same way) and the second week we've had her and my boyfriend is starting to believe there is something wrong with her and is tempted to take her back to the pet store. I'm tempted to kill the rat and see if she has indeed developed a preference for feeding. Is there anything anyone would recommend I do for her? As I said before she's definitely hungry, she's not gravid, and it's not mating season just yet so I'm not sure what else is wrong with her. Would she still dance around her cage and do all the other hunger signs if she were fasting?

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Originally Posted by RiverDragon459

Hi, I am a new ball python owner and while I've already read up on everything I need to know to care for her, there's still some things I need help with immediately. I've talked to the reptile manager at the pet store where I bought her from and he told me what I should be doing to feed her. We've put her in a big enough container to feed (separate from her living container) and let her get adjusted to it and she's doing all the typical signs of feeding but she won't eat. She acts almost as if she's afraid of her food? I've had the reptile manager select a live rat that he would feed her to make sure it's not too big or too small for her and she still refuses to eat it. We left her in the container with the rat for about 20 minutes now and she followed the rat around the container visually for a bit and coiled up in preparation to strike but soon as the rat turned and smelled her nose in curiosity, that was it, she was done. She won't touch it anymore and she does her best to escape. The RM says he's fed her live, fresh killed, and frozen so she wouldn't develop a sort of preference when it comes to feeding. This is the second week she's done this (exact same way) and the second week we've had her and my boyfriend is starting to believe there is something wrong with her and is tempted to take her back to the pet store. I'm tempted to kill the rat and see if she has indeed developed a preference for feeding. Is there anything anyone would recommend I do for her? As I said before she's definitely hungry, she's not gravid, and it's not mating season just yet so I'm not sure what else is wrong with her. Would she still dance around her cage and do all the other hunger signs if she were fasting?

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1. Try feeding her in her home enclosure. There is no reason to pull her out of her home, likely making her feel uncomfortable and stressed, in order to feed her.
2. Try a smaller rat than the guy at the store recommended.
3. How do you know she's hungry? When's the last time she ate? They can go for quite some time (many months) without eating - especially after moving to a new environment.
4. "Dancing around her cage" could also be a sign of stress. A comfortable ball python is pretty much a pet rock. I'd deep dive into your setup if I were you and make sure you've got it dialed in for her. Ask if you need help with this.
5. How big is she? I'm going to assume that she's adult size since you mentioned not being gravid and it not being mating season (which it actually is for most breeders).

Hi, and thanks to the BP.net community for welcoming me as a new member! As far as the thread is concerned in RiverDragon459, Eric Alan has everything on point. I would just add that you should pay special attention to the article " the enigmatic ball python appetite' by Colin Weaver of East coast reptiles. He talks about the importance of your choice of substrates being very crucial to the feeding response in ball pythons. He recommends cypress mulch as the best choice but he takes several of his experiences with customers and their non feeding animals and how he resolved the issues. Great article for every bp owner with feeding problems. Always monitor your pythons enclosure for the proper temps and humidity! And of course monitor your bp for any suspected or apparent health issues. Good Luck and enjoy those articles.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

1. Try feeding her in her home enclosure. There is no reason to pull her out of her home, likely making her feel uncomfortable and stressed, in order to feed her.
2. Try a smaller rat than the guy at the store recommended.
3. How do you know she's hungry? When's the last time she ate? They can go for quite some time (many months) without eating - especially after moving to a new environment.
4. "Dancing around her cage" could also be a sign of stress. A comfortable ball python is pretty much a pet rock. I'd deep dive into your setup if I were you and make sure you've got it dialed in for her. Ask if you need help with this.
5. How big is she? I'm going to assume that she's adult size since you mentioned not being gravid and it not being mating season (which it actually is for most breeders).

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1. Won't she get cage-aggressive? People have told me they can get that way if you feed them in their home enclosure.
2. I did actually go back and get a smaller rat and she still wouldn't eat it live so we killed it as the RM instructed (to see if she is indeed picky about her food) and she still hasn't touched it so far
3. She ate last about 3 weeks ago before we bought her from the pet store and she's doing all the signs people say are typical for hunger? She's yawning constantly, she's roaming and flicking her tongue. Plus the RM said she should be ready to feed about now.
4. If you are right and she is stressed and uncomfortable, what would you recommend we do?
5. She's about 3.5 feet. I thought snakes bred throughout the summer into early/late fall? Could this be why she's not eating?

Dont stress too much. Stress from a move, new smells and sights, it may be a full month or two before your baby eats.

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Originally Posted by Kris Mclaughlin

Dont stress too much. Stress from a move, new smells and sights, it may be a full month or two before your baby eats.

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Is there anything I can do for her to help her settle down? I'm kinda freaking more cause Eric mentioned it's mating season and the RM said she was eating until we bought her so I'm hoping it is indeed because she's moved and its a new place for her.

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Originally Posted by RiverDragon459

1. Won't she get cage-aggressive? People have told me they can get that way if you feed them in their home enclosure.

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Cage aggression, in regards to feeding in a separate enclosure, is an old-wives tale. Here's a nice, long, thread that goes into detail if you want to read it for yourself.

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Originally Posted by RiverDragon459

2. I did actually go back and get a smaller rat and she still wouldn't eat it live so we killed it as the RM instructed (to see if she is indeed picky about her food) and she still hasn't touched it so far.

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How often are you offereing food? It sounds like it may be more often than necessary, because you're concerned about her not eating, and that may actually be adding to the stress.

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Originally Posted by RiverDragon459

3. She ate last about 3 weeks ago before we bought her from the pet store and she's doing all the signs people say are typical for hunger? She's yawning constantly, she's roaming and flicking her tongue. Plus the RM said she should be ready to feed about now.

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In general, roaming and restless behavior are signs of stress. Here's a thread on some of the other signs. Yawning constantly isn't a sign of hunger, at least not in my experience, and could actually be a sign of respiratory illness. These things point towards needing a comfortable environment with the proper husbandry (set-up).

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Originally Posted by RiverDragon459

4. If you are right and she is stressed and uncomfortable, what would you recommend we do?

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Check out a few of the links in my signature. The Care Guide and Glass Tank Setup Guide are good places to start. Another good idea would be to post pictures of and describe your current enclosure for us.

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Originally Posted by RiverDragon459

5. She's about 3.5 feet. I thought snakes bred throughout the summer into early/late fall? Could this be why she's not eating?

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Most ball python breeders tend to start breeding pretty late in the year and don't finish until late spring/early summer. Cooler temperatures also tend to correlate with hunger strikes. A combination of these two things could be impacting her eating habits right now, but it's really tough to tell as it could really be any number of factors.

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Originally Posted by RiverDragon459

Is there anything I can do for her to help her settle down? I'm kinda freaking more cause Erik mentioned it's mating season and the RM said she was eating until we bought her so I'm hoping it is indeed because she's moved and its a new place for her.

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I know it doesn't help much, but try and relax. Honestly, as long as they aren't losing weight, they can go many months without eating and do just fine. My current longest active hunger-strike has been going on since November 8th (~3.5 months), which isn't really all that concerning since she's maintaining her weight well. I've heard stories of hunger strikes from adult imports lasting upwards of 2+ years with minimal weight loss.

Just try and focus on making sure you're giving her a good home and the rest will fall in line for you. :gj:

Eric Allan

I've had her for about two and a half weeks now and I've offered her food twice so far on Sundays so about once a week as recommended, is this too often?

Okay so after reading all the information you've given me I'm going to hope her situation is a cross between being stressed from the new home and possibly because of breeding season. After looking at more of the signs of stress I can see now that she displays more of them than for the basic hunger signs that I was told to watch for. So for now, I will treat her as if she's stressed and let her be and hopefully she'll settle down and return to eating normally. After she stops roaming so often do you think it would be a good idea to try to feed her again?

Also should she be in a darkened environment more often than she is in the daylight? And would being around cigarette smoke be harmful or stressful to her?

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Originally Posted by RiverDragon459

Eric Allan

I've had her for about two and a half weeks now and I've offered her food twice so far on Sundays so about once a week as recommended, is this too often?

Okay so after reading all the information you've given me I'm going to hope her situation is a cross between being stressed from the new home and possibly because of breeding season. After looking at more of the signs of stress I can see now that she displays more of them than for the basic hunger signs that I was told to watch for. So for now, I will treat her as if she's stressed and let her be and hopefully she'll settle down and return to eating normally. After she stops roaming so often do you think it would be a good idea to try to feed her again?

Also should she be in a darkened environment more often than she is in the daylight? And would being around cigarette smoke be harmful or stressful to her?

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Once a week is a good schedule, but I'd hold off a couple of weeks and offer her food again at that point. They tend to spend most of their time in a dark environment, so yes, a darker environment would likely do her some good. In regards to the cigarette smoke, is second-hand smoke safe or stress-free for anything?

My enclosure lights turn on at 7:00 am and go off at 7:00 pm. My ball will only eat after 10:00 pm, about three hours after lights out. She never misses a meal after 10:00 pm. She never eats before then. I would try turning out the lights for a few hours before feeding, and feeding f/t or pre-killed. Leave the dead rodent in the cage and walk away. Remove after an hour if not eaten. Do not check to see if prey is eaten for at least an hour. Also, try a dead mouse instead of a rat. Some pythons dislike rats.

David

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Once a week is a good schedule, but I'd hold off a couple of weeks and offer her food again at that point. They tend to spend most of their time in a dark environment, so yes, a darker environment would likely do her some good. In regards to the cigarette smoke, is second-hand smoke safe or stress-free for anything?

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Okay so if I were put drapes up in my room would that be okay? Minimal sunlight, but not complete darkness or should I just put her in the closet?

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Originally Posted by nightrainfalls

My enclosure lights turn on at 7:00 am and go off at 7:00 pm. My ball will only eat after 10:00 pm, about three hours after lights out. She never misses a meal after 10:00 pm. She never eats before then. I would try turning out the lights for a few hours before feeding, and feeding f/t or pre-killed. Leave the dead rodent in the cage and walk away. Remove after an hour if not eaten. Do not check to see if prey is eaten for at least an hour. Also, try a dead mouse instead of a rat. Some pythons dislike rats.

David

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Yeah I turn her lights on when I get up at 7:30 and they're off by 7:30 or dark if that's earlier. I did actually take her out of her separate enclosure and put her back in her living enclosure for a bit before killing the rat and giving it to her quite a while later when she'd settled down and resumed her roaming instead of being all coiled up and watchful. The pet store I received her from has always fed her rats in one form or another alternatively (fresh kill, live, frozen, etc), should I really switch to mice? would they be big enough for her to eat and stay fed for up to a week?

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Originally Posted by RiverDragon459

Yeah I turn her lights on when I get up at 7:30 and they're off by 7:30 or dark if that's earlier. I did actually take her out of her separate enclosure and put her back in her living enclosure for a bit before killing the rat and giving it to her quite a while later when she'd settled down and resumed her roaming instead of being all coiled up and watchful. The pet store I received her from has always fed her rats in one form or another alternatively (fresh kill, live, frozen, etc), should I really switch to mice? would they be big enough for her to eat and stay fed for up to a week?

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I have had good success feeding two large mice to picky eaters. Sometimes if a snake won't feed on rats, it will take mice. I am not advocating a permanent switch, just making a suggestion that may help get your snake eating again. I would second the earlier remarks o not handle your snake before feeding. It causes stress.

David

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Originally Posted by RiverDragon459

Okay so if I were put drapes up in my room would that be okay? Minimal sunlight, but not complete darkness or should I just put her in the closet?

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Honestly, I'd be focused more on what's inside of her enclosure than outside of it to begin with. Temperatures, humidity, decorations, substrate, etc...

the enclosure itself can cause stress. from what i gather, yours is a transparent display cage? try to temporarily cover all sides with paper, until she has settled down, there is no absolute timeframe for this, she will let you know by calming down and eating. or if you can live with it, use an opaque tub to house it permanently.

does she have a hide? this is very important, especially in display cages. i find that shy eaters can benefit from a hide. wait until you notice her in ambush mode (in the hide, with only her head at the hide's entrance). if you see this, gently dangle the food in front of the hide. i do not suggest you let it go, because if the prey checks out your snakes face before it decides to strike, you are not gonna get any results. starting with small/helpless rat babies also build up her confidence until she is brave enough to tackle larger rats, i like using those that just opened their eyes. these crawl slowly and encourage a feeding response.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Honestly, I'd be focused more on what's inside of her enclosure than outside of it to begin with. Temperatures, humidity, decorations, substrate, etc...

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Temp and humidity are perfect from what information I have gathered and she has a hide big enough to hold most of her body if she really wanted to fit in it. She always has fresh water to bathe in or drink

GM to all. RiverDragon459, make sure to include a hide for your bp, one that is of an appropriate size to make the animal feel secure. That would mean a hide where the bp can feel the sides of the hide when coiled inside. This is very important especially for problem feeders. Another tactic is to fill a container of appropriate size with warm water [88- 90 degrees], make the water deep enough so the bp will have to swim. Cover the container for security and safety for the bp and make sure you have adequate holes in the container for air and oxygen exchange. A Styrofoam container is a good choice. Let the bp swim for 35 to 40 minutes. Periodically check on him or her. The results are threefold, appetite stimulation, rehydration through the respiratory tract , rehydration through the cloaca. Good Luck! Switch from trying to feed from weekly to every 10 days. Be patient, as long as the bp is getting fluid the greater the chance the appetite will return. A.C.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

GM to all. RiverDragon459, make sure to include a hide for your bp, one that is of an appropriate size to make the animal feel secure. That would mean a hide where the bp can feel the sides of the hide when coiled inside. This is very important especially for problem feeders. Another tactic is to fill a container of appropriate size with warm water [88- 90 degrees], make the water deep enough so the bp will have to swim. Cover the container for security and safety for the bp and make sure you have adequate holes in the container for air and oxygen exchange. A Styrofoam container is a good choice. Let the bp swim for 35 to 40 minutes. Periodically check on him or her. The results are threefold, appetite stimulation, rehydration through the respiratory tract , rehydration through the cloaca. Good Luck! Switch from trying to feed from weekly to every 10 days. Be patient, as long as the bp is getting fluid the greater the chance the appetite will return. A.C.

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I have never heard of, nor seen, forcing a BP to swim for 35 to 40 mins as a way to get them eating again. I don't think it'll do anything but stress them out even more.

A forced swim? What?

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Originally Posted by 200xth

I have never heard of, nor seen, forcing a BP to swim for 35 to 40 mins as a way to get them eating again. I don't think it'll do anything but stress them out even more.

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Originally Posted by h20hunter

A forced swim? What?

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Hey guys, RiverDragon459 is asking for help and suggestions. Lets try to keep to the topic of a fellow herp enthusiast who admits to being new to the industry and having concerns about her bp not feeding! None of us know everything but all of know something! Its not to be looked at as forcing a bp to swim, but to get the most out of a proven therapy that is worth a try. Personally, it worked for me here at aareptiles after a breeding bp of mine went off feed after breeding to several females. The treatment is also researched at Darkman Reptiles. com . It may work and it may not. Its not a one size fits all approach. Remember, water is the staff of life for all living organisms. Also, remember its the benefits of appetite stimulation, rehydration, though the respiratory tract and the cloaca. Peace, A.C.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

GM to all. RiverDragon459, make sure to include a hide for your bp, one that is of an appropriate size to make the animal feel secure. That would mean a hide where the bp can feel the sides of the hide when coiled inside. This is very important especially for problem feeders. Another tactic is to fill a container of appropriate size with warm water [88- 90 degrees], make the water deep enough so the bp will have to swim. Cover the container for security and safety for the bp and make sure you have adequate holes in the container for air and oxygen exchange. A Styrofoam container is a good choice. Let the bp swim for 35 to 40 minutes. Periodically check on him or her. The results are threefold, appetite stimulation, rehydration through the respiratory tract , rehydration through the cloaca. Good Luck! Switch from trying to feed from weekly to every 10 days. Be patient, as long as the bp is getting fluid the greater the chance the appetite will return. A.C.

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Less stress is the goal here.
Please don't believe everything you read on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Hey guys, RiverDragon459 is asking for help and suggestions. Lets try to keep to the topic of a fellow herp enthusiast who admits to being new to the industry and having concerns about her bp not feeding! None of us know everything but all of know something! Its not to be looked at as forcing a bp to swim, but to get the most out of a proven therapy that is worth a try. Personally, it worked for me here at aareptiles after a breeding bp of mine went off feed after breeding to several females. The treatment is also researched at Darkman Reptiles. com . It may work and it may not. Its not a one size fits all approach. Remember, water is the staff of life for all living organisms. Also, remember its the benefits of appetite stimulation, rehydration, though the respiratory tract and the cloaca. Peace, A.C.

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Your right, this is a public forum and there people here to help.
Questionable advise WILL be questioned.

OP, what is the weight (incase I missed it)
Photos and temps would be good.
My first thought is to just leave her alone for a couple days.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Less stress is the goal here.
Please don't believe everything you read on the internet.


Your right, this is a public forum and there people here to help.
Questionable advise WILL be questioned.

OP, what is the weight (incase I missed it)
Photos and temps would be good.
My first thought is to just leave her alone for a couple days.

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OK, less stress is always paramount. Research is accomplished in a variety of ways including the internet. Believe what you've researched after you try it and it proves out! Weight and temps are in your primary assessment. We know little to no handling is also paramount after your corrective measures and treatment. Peace. A.C.

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Originally Posted by 200xth

I have never heard of, nor seen, forcing a BP to swim for 35 to 40 mins as a way to get them eating again. I don't think it'll do anything but stress them out even more.

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Remember, you are creating a form of exercise for the bp. What happens after you workout? Most living organisms will develop a appetite and be thirsty. Usually both. Have you gone swimming and left the pool or beach? How did you feel? Hungry?

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Remember, you are creating a form of exercise for the bp. What happens after you workout? Most living organisms will develop a appetite and be thirsty. Usually both. Have you gone swimming and left the pool or beach? How did you feel? Hungry?

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Totally the wrong way to look at this.
They do not have the same metabolism that we do, much less any other active animal.
They are not active.

Apples and oranges. Totally unrelated. As a comparitive novice to some but not "unlearned" I would suggest that people have far more options than putting a snake through this. I'll just say it....I think the suggestion of making your BP do a forced swim is absurd.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Remember, you are creating a form of exercise for the bp. What happens after you workout? Most living organisms will develop a appetite and be thirsty. Usually both. Have you gone swimming and left the pool or beach? How did you feel? Hungry?

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Equating your snake to how mammals, and humans in particular act, is not terribly useful, IMO. They certainly don't need the interaction mammals need, and they do not require the exercise mammals require. They have numerous psychological and biological differences in their requirements.

You're assuming snakes find swimming enjoyable rather than stressful. Humans enjoy going to the beach and swimming. Do BP's enjoy being stuffed in a styrofoam container and forced to swim around for 40 mins? I've never seen anything to indicate they enjoy that. I've seen far more evidence to indicate that something like that will stress them out, further reducing their chances of eating in the near future.

If you're trying to get your snake to feed again, your snake is far better off being left alone for a week in relative peace and quiet than he is being dropped in a container of water and forced to swim around for 40 mins a day like he's a dog, hamster, or horse in need of exercise.

Not only does the swim theory sound off base, the temps are crazy!

88-90 degrees, really! That will surely crank up the stress.

Water temps doe not feel the same as air temp or objects. In fact, water amplifies temperature. It is very deceptive.

You get in a tub of 90 degree water and see if feels comfortable for swimming. A relaxing bath is one thing, but a swim would be miserable.

Same goes for cold water. Have you ever swam or skied in 50 degree water? You would swear it is in the 30's.

Yeah, you'd have to put a lid on the tub of water all right. That snake is desperately trying to get out of that hot water.

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Originally Posted by 200xth

Equating your snake to how mammals, and humans in particular act, is not terribly useful, IMO. They certainly don't need the interaction mammals need, and they do not require the exercise mammals require. They have numerous psychological and biological differences in their requirements.

You're assuming snakes find swimming enjoyable rather than stressful. Humans enjoy going to the beach and swimming. Do BP's enjoy being stuffed in a styrofoam container and forced to swim around for 40 mins? I've never seen anything to indicate they enjoy that. I've seen far more evidence to indicate that something like that will stress them out, further reducing their chances of eating in the near future.

If you're trying to get your snake to feed again, your snake is far better off being left alone for a week in relative peace and quiet than he is being dropped in a container of water and forced to swim around for 40 mins a day like he's a dog, hamster, or horse in need of exercise.

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O.K., this is all moving away from the point. Thank you all for your input and I hope RiverDragon459 can peruse these threads and make a informed decision on what she is going to pursue to correct the problem feeding of her reptile. No one ever said to "stuff" anything or to ''force" anything. It was offered up as a tried and proven treatment for problem feeders along with all the other primary and secondary interventions that were intelligently expressed by Eric Alan. Thank you BP community. " Stay in peace and not pieces". A.C.

Okay guys first I would like to say thank you for all the options you have given me, now I don't feel so helpless or panicked that she's not eating. For now I think I'm going to leave her be but I will do more research as far as the swimming option goes before I do that for her. So far though I followed someone's advice (I can't find your comment to give you credit at the moment, sorry!) and I left her with the rat that was now dead at this point and she still didn't eat it, she actually ended up laying her head on it? I left her alone a little longer to see if she would eat it but she did everything possible to avoid the now dead rat. SO I've given up trying to feed her for this week, as many of you have said it's not totally uncommon for them to stop eating for a while especially after a move so I think I'll watch her to see if she stops wandering around her cage and becomes my 'pet rock' as Eric Alan stated she should be before I try feeding her again.

River....I am in the exact same boat as you. Our bp has been off feed for the first time and has gone 6 weeks without feed. I'm wieghing her once a week. So far...she is down from 2048 grams to 2045 in two weeks. She could sneeze and lose a few grams. We are currently buying small/med feeder rats and offering once ever two weeks. I prekill and offer the food. She acts interested then does the same thing. I give her time, then simply bag and freeze the rat. Now that I have a record of weight, know her husbandry is good, has water, and is not stressed or unhealthy I'm so much less worried that it isn't even funny. What I'm saying is bascially don't worry about it.....offer on a regular basis and moniter her weight. If she isn't losing a bunch of weight, doesn't appear to be unhealthy, then just relax. Easier said than done for sure but once you accept (took me a few weeks) the fact that a bp is not a dog, cat, or really a normal everyday pet with everyday feeding needs it becomes much less of a big deal.

Here are some pics I've finally figured out how to upload decently lol

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/brow...3&userid=58408

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Originally Posted by h20hunter

River....I am in the exact same boat as you. Our bp has been off feed for the first time and has gone 6 weeks without feed. I'm wieghing her once a week. So far...she is down from 2048 grams to 2045 in two weeks. She could sneeze and lose a few grams. We are currently buying small/med feeder rats and offering once ever two weeks. I prekill and offer the food. She acts interested then does the same thing. I give her time, then simply bag and freeze the rat. Now that I have a record of weight, know her husbandry is good, has water, and is not stressed or unhealthy I'm so much less worried that it isn't even funny. What I'm saying is bascially don't worry about it.....offer on a regular basis and moniter her weight. If she isn't losing a bunch of weight, doesn't appear to be unhealthy, then just relax. Easier said than done for sure but once you accept (took me a few weeks) the fact that a bp is not a dog, cat, or really a normal everyday pet with everyday feeding needs it becomes much less of a big deal.

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How would you weigh her? Just put her on a scale or hold her on it a certain way? and how often?

I bought a scale off Amazon....you can look at my post history for the one. Once a week I simply put the scale on the counter, place a plastic bowl on top, zero it out, and put her in.


here you go:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...90#post2323190

oh okay, just making sure there wasn't some sort of catch to putting her on the scale like my american bulldog lol.