Wow this is wrong

here is some terrible advice on how to keep a ball python. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/ar...articleid=2382 This article includes every single mistake a beginner could make.

Wow, I could not believe a Veterinarian would put that misleading information on there. I may have sent an email updating him on correct husbandry....

- - - Updated - - -

Wow, I could not believe a Veterinarian would put that misleading information on there. I may have sent an email updating him on correct husbandry....

Quote:

---

It should be made of wire mesh to provide proper ventilation.

---

Sure, if you live in the tropics where humidity isn't an issue at all.

Quote:

---

There are two main things that your Ball Python absolutely must have in his enclosure - a hidebox and climbing branches

---

So...you'd file water dish under optional?

I sent them a detailed e-mail. Everyone else should to.

I'll stick to snide remarks for now, I've only had my BP for about a month. I'll leave corrections to the more experienced.

If you don't mind my asking, what did you find so egregiously terrible and misleading about the article?

Also, to clear up any confusion, Drs. Foster & Smith is an online pet retailer (owned by Petco as of earlier this month) - not a veterinarian.

I didn't think it was that bad. Not great....will make a beginner spend way more money to house their snake than they need, to...but nothing in there is going to make a snake sick. I think my only main disagreement would be the nighttime temperature drop. But even that is not totally off the charts on the responsibility scale. Many other things I find unnecessary, but not detrimental in general.

As mentioned, it's not a vet writing this, but a pet supplies retailer...and they're hard-wired to create their "care sheets" in such a way as to sell as many supplies as they can. At least they said NOT to use a hot rock. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric Alan

If you don't mind my asking, what did you find so egregiously terrible and misleading about the article?

Also, to clear up any confusion, Drs. Foster & Smith is an online pet retailer (owned by Petco as of earlier this month) - not a veterinarian.

---

Honestly I thought the same thing. I mean climbing branches aren't needed at all, but there is not much harm in them being there. Same with the night drop temp, water temps, and lighting schedule. A screen top lid might not hold humidity well, but some sort of cover can easily mend that issue. They are making these things harder to take care of than they really are, but I've seen worse advice given within the hobby.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric Alan

If you don't mind my asking, what did you find so egregiously terrible and misleading about the article?

---

We might start with the unregulated UTH. How many posts have we seen on this forum about burnt snakes?

We might add that the snake has to choose between warmth and a good hide since the only hide is on the cool side.

UV light for a nocturnal species. Yeah that is wrong as well.

This set up will lead to a stressed, burnt snake, but other than that it is fine, actually, no it isn't but at least the rest isn't fatal

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightrainfalls

We might start with the unregulated UTH. How many posts have we seen on this forum about burnt snakes?

---

Burnt by their blistering hot recommendation of a 90° F hot spot? Just because they didn't include a thermostat on the checklist doesn't mean that they didn't talk about regulating the proper temperatures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightrainfalls

We might add that the snake has to choose between warmth and a good hide since the only hide is on the cool side.

---

You mean choosing between a hide covered in artificial plants on one side and cluttered up branches and artificial plants on the other? Seems to me like they're recommending a good starting point to try to make a BP feel comfortable in its new environment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightrainfalls

UV light for a nocturnal species. Yeah that is wrong as well.

---

Sure, they don't need the UV, but it isn't going to harm them in any way. If I still had display cages I'd have lights on them as well. I wouldn't spend the money on UV bulbs, but this guide was written by a pet supply retailer - not a budget minded hobbyist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightrainfalls

This set up will lead to a stressed, burnt snake, but other than that it is fine, actually, no it isn't but at least the rest isn't fatal

---

Again - what are you seeing as fatal? There isn't anything here that would directly lead to health problems if you follow their recommendations.

The guide was written by a sales team and they got a majority of their facts straight. Kudos to them. After these initial care guides made by the retailers get people pointed in the right direction, those customers tend to do more research for themselves and find places like this site where they can learn all of the nitty-gritty details on how to fine-tune their setup. And we love them for it. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightrainfalls

We might start with the unregulated UTH. How many posts have we seen on this forum about burnt snakes?

---

This is the only thing that bothered me at all. Would be nice if they included a thermostat on their list of must-have items.

The rest didn't bother me. Some is pointless, some is sub-optimal, but it's all workable with some slight modifications.

Those articles are why people come to forums like this - to get better information. To get help where the pet store can't help without costing bookoo bucks. It's helped me at least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric Alan

If you don't mind my asking, what did you find so egregiously terrible and misleading about the article?

Also, to clear up any confusion, Drs. Foster & Smith is an online pet retailer (owned by Petco as of earlier this month) - not a veterinarian.

---

Wow DrF&S got bought out, huh? I remember when I was a kid my mom used to get their mail order catalogs (I think she purchased all her shots through them and vaxed her persians herself). Idk why, but I loved looking at the fancy pet stuff and day dreaming about spoiling my critters with useless crap, lol.

From the way the information is worded the newbie keeper is left with the impression that an unregulated UTH will provide a hot spot of 90*F.

Also it says at the end that 2 ball pythons can be housed in the same enclosure.

I think a really important thing to point out is, most of the people looking to these guides ARE total newbs. The article says the hot spot should be at 90, but it doesn't discuss HOW to regulate it, and a first timer may make the common mistake of assuming the heatpads are set up right out of the box. Or worse, they'll think all heat is created equal and buy a hot rock for inside the enclosure. D: The plant clutter looks nice, but two appropriate sized hides is cheaper and easier (and probably better for cleaning). Screen top tanks can have their humidity managed, but the article doesn't discuss options for it, or even tell potential buyers that in could be a problem. So yeah, the set up will work with some fiddling, but the new snake owner won't necessarily know that, or even how to start adjusting and fixing problems that will pop up with the suggestions here. Like it's been pointed out, this is a care sheet designed to sell products, not optimize the care of the snake. It's just worded so that you think that's what you're doing. Not wrong, but some what dishonest.

In my opinion, if you believe everything you read on the web. Well you get what you deserve. There are multiple sources of information to be had. And your already on the web if you were reading that. Even on here a contributor named Skiploder just posted information on feeding and other husbandry issues, that made a lot of people think about how they were going about things. It's like when someone asks a question on here about a ball. And someone else answers, well my blood python or brb or gtp. They weren't asking about another species. It makes no sense. I believe if you go on Vpi. com It states; Ball pythons require a secure, well-ventilated cage. A glass aquarium with a secure ventilated top (screen wire or perforated metal) makes a satisfactory cage. Plastic storage boxes, with numerous perforations for ventilation, can be satisfactorily used to maintain ball pythons.

This facts sheet is outdated but it's tons better then may others I've found online. drFosters&Smithb is and always has been more about dogs and cats then anything. They have great departments for rodents and ferrets as well but their reptile department is slim. I can see a newbie taking this an expert guide which isn't ideal but it could be worse. I agree it should mention a form of regulating the heat source but since they do not sell thermostats then it doesn't suprise me that they left it out. As for the co-habitating, housing 2 BP together is possible with the right size enclosure and proper setup. They do not mention having 2 seperate hot spots but they did say it's doable with larger tank and plenty of hides. That is, again, better advise then other fact sheets I have found in the past

Sorry I could'nt fix my edit in time: In my opinion, if you believe everything you read on the web. Well you get what you deserve. There are multiple sources of information to be had. And your already on the web if you were reading that. Even on here a contributor named Skiploder just posted information on feeding and other husbandry issues, that made a lot of people think about how they were going about things. It's like when someone asks a question on here about a ball. And someone else answers, well my blood python or brb or gtp. They weren't asking about another species. It makes no sense. I believe if you go on Vpi. com It states;( Ball pythons require a secure, well-ventilated cage. A glass aquarium with a secure ventilated top (screen wire or perforated metal) makes a satisfactory cage. Plastic storage boxes, with numerous perforations for ventilation, can be satisfactorily used to maintain ball pythons.) Sorry I can't figure out how to change the font back. My point is there is probably lots of differing opions out there. And it's up to you to figure out what works best in your situation. I've been doing this for thirty years, and I'm still learning. Sorry if that turned into a rant.

Malnutrition is pretty fatal due to not eating because of stress caused by possible burns, another snake. low humidity causes stuck shed, stress which will lead to more stress. And again prolapse due to dehydration again is fatal. Another snake striking another snake due to mistaking it for food, is a serious injury if not fatal. I could go on but my break is over.

This feels like a witch hunt. There is more than one way to raise a snake and there are recommendations we make to new people that aren't necessary. What if I told you most of my ball pythons don't have hides and not a single cage has two hides? What if I told you all of my ball pythons have the same half pint water bowl? What if I told you I don't have that glorious accurite thing recommended everywhere in any cage because I think they are garbage? What if I told you I don't give a second thought if my ambient temps are at 70 degrees because I left the window open? eh I probably don't know what the hell i'm doing either, those all break caresheet recommendations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kylearmbar

Malnutrition is pretty fatal due to not eating because of stress caused by possible burns, another snake. low humidity causes stuck shed, stress which will lead to more stress. And again prolapse due to dehydration again is fatal. Another snake striking another snake due to mistaking it for food, is a serious injury if not fatal. I could go on but my break is over.

---

The snake will not get burned at 90 degrees, end story. You don't have to have a thermostat, you can use a rheostat as well. I don't see people running their house furnaces unregulated, most people understand the concept. Properly cohabitating snakes do not stress out. They recommend 50% to 60% humidity, not low humidity. I see they have a water bowl in there (even give a ridiculous water temp recomendation), so I don't see how the snake would be dehydrated. Properly cohabitating snakes won't mistake the other for food.

Can we stop the witch hunt now? is it a care sheet with an obvious agenda? yes. There nothing wrong with emailing them and asking for clarification on points, but I think most of us can agree it is not that bad, just vague. I do feel some of straw man arguments in this thread are worse than the caresheet. We should be better than that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

This feels like a witch hunt.
is it a care sheet with an obvious agenda? yes. There nothing wrong with emailing them and asking for clarification on points, but I think most of us can agree it is not that bad, just vague. I do feel some of straw man arguments in this thread are worse than the caresheet. We should be better than that.

---

Well, witch hunt may be a little strong, I don't thing anyone want's to burn the author at the stake (though making them sit on an unregulated heat source might do the trick :O (just kidding)) But really, there is nothing in there that is that horrible. MOST care sheets on the web will have SOMETHING that people will disagree with. Heck, I disagree with some of the ball python care sheet on THIS site (up to 94 degrees is WAY too hot in my opinion) but I still think that most of the advice offered here is very well thought out and is a good starting point for anyone new getting into the hobby. The key concept being 'starting point'. We all live in different parts of the world with different prevailing climactic conditions and what works for me up here in the north, may not be the best for someone down south. This is why you need to be aware of your snakes and how THEY react to different conditions. Be observant and find out what works best for YOUR snakes. Do NOT be locked into a certain way of doing things because some self proclaimed expert told you so, figure it out for yourself. Care sheets are just starting points. It'll give you a place to begin, but it's rarely a place you will want to stay once you understand your animals a little better.

While I think this caresheet could have been more detailed. like others have said, nothing in it is going to be fatal to your snake. Back when I was a kid, I had a normal ball python as my first snake years and years and years ago before there were things like Herpstats or even pre built cages. I kept my ball python in a 55 gallon tank with a screen lid with heat lamps on him and he thrived for 10+ years till I had to get rid of him. He always ate, was fat and happy. He had bad sheds usually but I found out that using a warm wet wash cloth with him in the sink worked wonders. So my point is these snakes are a lot hardier than a lot of people want to give them credit for. People say "omg their temp fluctuated a few degrees". Mine fluctuated a lot during the day and night and like I said, he was great. I do think they should have stated a T-stat is needed as another thing to upsell but also because that is very important. Regardless, a "meh" caresheet but not fatal advice like I said.