First rat: Will it ALWAYS be this hard?!

So my lovely boy Argus took his first rat today! But it was NOT easy. I weighed him at 348 grams. My smallest rat was smack at the 15% body weight mark, so I thought I'd try it. I had planned to wait until he was a bit bigger and skip a feeding so he would be extra hungry, but hey, no time like the present, yeah?

Argus knows when he gets weighed he's going to get fed, so he was waiting for his meal, sticking out of his hide, and eventaully roaming around impatiently while I thawed his dinner.

I knew it may be hard, so I thawed a mouse with the rat and rubbed them on each other. I tossed the mouse on top of the cage under the warming bulb to fill the tank with its scent, and when he was ready to go, offered the rat. BAM, struck immediately, coiled... And left it, instead poking at the mouse through the screen lid. I warmed and offered the rat again, and he took it AGAIN, and he left it. The third time he looked like he kind of tried to eat it, but it was backwards, and he gave up.

So, I cut the mouse open and rubbed it all over the head of the rat. He took it again. Immediately. But, no dice. I had to split the mouse open and rub the entire rat down with its innards, and THEN he took it and ate it. It took 5 or 6 tries. Every time he struck and coiled in seconds after being offered and LOOKED like he really wanted to eat it, but eventually would abandon it.

This whole time he was roaming the tank, striking anything that moved (retrieving the rat was a process that involved a snake hook and a quick hand), seriously hungry snake. He is not a shy eater, so me being there in his mind just meant food - He wanted the mouse he could smell. Will it always be this hard? Will he eventually warm up to the idea of just the rat, or will it be a long time of splitting mice and slathering the rat in mouse scent? I have a few more mice (three) and it'd be awesome if I didn't have to buy more.

What are your experiences with switching over to rats? Good, bad? How long did it take?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spoons

So my lovely boy Argus took his first rat today! But it was NOT easy. I weighed him at 348 grams. My smallest rat was smack at the 15% body weight mark, so I thought I'd try it. I had planned to wait until he was a bit bigger and skip a feeding so he would be extra hungry, but hey, no time like the present, yeah?

Argus knows when he gets weighed he's going to get fed, so he was waiting for his meal, sticking out of his hide, and eventaully roaming around impatiently while I thawed his dinner.

I knew it may be hard, so I thawed a mouse with the rat and rubbed them on each other. I tossed the mouse on top of the cage under the warming bulb to fill the tank with its scent, and when he was ready to go, offered the rat. BAM, struck immediately, coiled... And left it, instead poking at the mouse through the screen lid. I warmed and offered the rat again, and he took it AGAIN, and he left it. The third time he looked like he kind of tried to eat it, but it was backwards, and he gave up.

So, I cut the mouse open and rubbed it all over the head of the rat. He took it again. Immediately. But, no dice. I had to split the mouse open and rub the entire rat down with its innards, and THEN he took it and ate it. It took 5 or 6 tries. Every time he struck and coiled in seconds after being offered and LOOKED like he really wanted to eat it, but eventually would abandon it.

This whole time he was roaming the tank, striking anything that moved (retrieving the rat was a process that involved a snake hook and a quick hand), seriously hungry snake. He is not a shy eater, so me being there in his mind just meant food - He wanted the mouse he could smell. Will it always be this hard? Will he eventually warm up to the idea of just the rat, or will it be a long time of splitting mice and slathering the rat in mouse scent? I have a few more mice (three) and it'd be awesome if I didn't have to buy more.

What are your experiences with switching over to rats? Good, bad? How long did it take?

---

It sounds like the rat wasn't warm enough. He'd strike at it because he could smell it, but then when he coiled around it felt that it wasn't as warm as he hoped. Next time, use a hair dryer and heat up the rat right before putting it into the tank, especially the head. Hold the hair dryer on the head of the rat for a good 15-20 seconds and it'll make it more appetizing. But just make sure that the body temp is in that 98-100F range.

Hmm. Good thought, but I don't think that's the case - It was definitely warm. They get thawed in hot water until they're soft all the way through, then warmed under the ceramic bulb on the tank screen lid.

At least with mice, he's never cared how hot they are. I've offered one once even feeling cool straight after thawing, with no extra warming, and he'll snap them up and chow them down (of course, most of the time I make sure they're nice and mouse-temperatured, I was in a hurry that day!) The first time I had that same thought, as he coiled it in his water and definitely killed any warmth it had, but before offering it again I would re-warm it under the ceramic bulb.

He also would go up to the lid and try to strike at the mouse that was sitting on top, which hadn't been warmed at all after the first time (when I warmed to scent the tank) and was cooler than the rat.

Not opposed to putting extra focus on the warming next time though! I'll have to borrow a hair drier and see if that works better than the heating bulb. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spoons

So my lovely boy Argus took his first rat today! But it was NOT easy. I weighed him at 348 grams. My smallest rat was smack at the 15% body weight mark, so I thought I'd try it. I had planned to wait until he was a bit bigger and skip a feeding so he would be extra hungry, but hey, no time like the present, yeah?

Argus knows when he gets weighed he's going to get fed, so he was waiting for his meal, sticking out of his hide, and eventaully roaming around impatiently while I thawed his dinner.

I knew it may be hard, so I thawed a mouse with the rat and rubbed them on each other. I tossed the mouse on top of the cage under the warming bulb to fill the tank with its scent, and when he was ready to go, offered the rat. BAM, struck immediately, coiled... And left it, instead poking at the mouse through the screen lid. I warmed and offered the rat again, and he took it AGAIN, and he left it. The third time he looked like he kind of tried to eat it, but it was backwards, and he gave up.

So, I cut the mouse open and rubbed it all over the head of the rat. He took it again. Immediately. But, no dice. I had to split the mouse open and rub the entire rat down with its innards, and THEN he took it and ate it. It took 5 or 6 tries. Every time he struck and coiled in seconds after being offered and LOOKED like he really wanted to eat it, but eventually would abandon it.

This whole time he was roaming the tank, striking anything that moved (retrieving the rat was a process that involved a snake hook and a quick hand), seriously hungry snake. He is not a shy eater, so me being there in his mind just meant food - He wanted the mouse he could smell. Will it always be this hard? Will he eventually warm up to the idea of just the rat, or will it be a long time of splitting mice and slathering the rat in mouse scent? I have a few more mice (three) and it'd be awesome if I didn't have to buy more.

What are your experiences with switching over to rats? Good, bad? How long did it take?

---

Sweet baby jesus, that sounds absolutely terrible.

He's probably easily distracted, I have one like that. Kirby will strike and coil every time I dangle his food in there, but if there's any movement or anything else around his tank he'll let go and cruise around for a while. He eventually goes back to it, so I feed him last before I leave the room and just don't worry about him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spoons

Hmm. Good thought, but I don't think that's the case - It was definitely warm. They get thawed in hot water until they're soft all the way through, then warmed under the ceramic bulb on the tank screen lid.

At least with mice, he's never cared how hot they are. I've offered one once even feeling cool straight after thawing, with no extra warming, and he'll snap them up and chow them down (of course, most of the time I make sure they're nice and mouse-temperatured, I was in a hurry that day!) The first time I had that same thought, as he coiled it in his water and definitely killed any warmth it had, but before offering it again I would re-warm it under the ceramic bulb.

He also would go up to the lid and try to strike at the mouse that was sitting on top, which hadn't been warmed at all after the first time (when I warmed to scent the tank) and was cooler than the rat.

Not opposed to putting extra focus on the warming next time though! I'll have to borrow a hair drier and see if that works better than the heating bulb. :)

---

When you feed a f/t to your snake, do you use feeding tongs? Something that will help him have the desire to eat it more is tugging on the rat after he's coiled around it. It makes him think it's alive and he'll coil tighter and it'll help him sink his teeth in as well. I always tug on the f/t I offer my snakes and it makes them coil around it longer and eat it afterwards. I do on occasion end up with what you have and they'll lose interest. Usually I reheat it with a hair dryer and repeat the process.

Rubbing the mouse and mouse enards all over the rat is never going to allow you to accomplish this mission you have set out on. The snake is still going to think it is eating a mouse...... best bet would probably be the way you started thinking .. let him go two weeks without eating then offer a properly thawed and warmed rat (100 to 110degree) ... I would try starting off with a rat pinkie or small rat pup (this is going to be the closest size-wise to the same size of adult mouse that you have been feeding him) .. after he is successfully eating rats in general then gradually over four or five feedings increase to the size rat that is appropriate for him .. Good Luck :gj:

That's what I did. My little girl was raised on mice but when I got her, I offered her a small rat fuzzy after a couple days and she gobbled it down. Then I moved up to large fuzzies, then rat pups and now she is just ate her first rat weaning last week. She is a very focused eater though and once she grabs that rat, nothing on gods green earth is going to get her to let go. I can even pick her up while she is eating the rat and put her on her paper plate so she doesn't eat aspen and she is unphased. But like T-Sauer said, masking the rat with mouse isn't going to get him to recognize rats as food, just wait a week and try a slightly smaller than usual rat or one close to the mice size you feed and then go from there.

The switch from F/T mice to F/T rats for me was easy. One feeding day I just thawed a rat out with hot water, took it upstairs, pinned the neck down with the feeding tongs so it wouldn't fly everywhere and used the hairdryer to ensure that it was all warm especially the head. Held it outside of the hide he was in and he came darting out ready to strike as soon as he was out. He took it and ate it first time, I guess I was lucky. :P

I definitely think that making him wait an extra week would be the best option, but don't use a mouse to scent the rat, leave the rat as it is. When you do offer your snake the rat make sure that you use a hairdryer to warm it up and then focus on the head for about 5 seconds. Then if he strikes and then drops it, tough luck, make him wait another week. Eventually he will eat.. I hope.

Also, make sure that there is not a mouse anywhere to be seen. If he sees the other option, he will probably want the mouse and will ignore the rat.

I think you should probably leave the mouse out of the equation (except for scenting the rat if you really think it's necessary). It sounds like he was getting confused because the thing he WANTED was above him and he could still smell it. Make sure it's warm all the way through like the others said, and use the hair dryer to make sure head/nose are warmer than the other parts (that way he'll get it the right way round). Scent it if you think it needs doing, but don't take the mouse near his enclosure, he'll just be looking for the "real" food then.

I just tossed live rat pinks in there the first time my BPs were big enough for rats and they took them no problem. If you want to try a more humane way, it's as easy as using freshly pre-killed. Haven't seen any disgusting innards as of yet in my time keeping my snakes.
Now the challenge remains in getting them to stay on rats when they feel like fasting. One of mine seems to favor mice.

Well shoot, I could have sworn I read on here that what I did was a more common method! I thought it was sort of once they ate one rat, regardless of how you managed it, they'd more readily eat more rats. (Well, I'm still hoping that's the case.)

Well, I guess next time I'll change it up. I can't get anything smaller than small rats anywhere near me, I would have to order them (which is why I haven't yet, I'm waiting till he's consistently on small rats so I can order a bulk supply.) Though, he's so close to eating small rats I suppose I could order some and throw in a bag of rat pups as well. It'll have to wait till I get paid.

Next time I will leave the mouse totally out of the equation. I jumped the gun, I think, I was expecting it to be super hard so I inadvertantly made it super hard. This rat was nice and big, probably the biggest thing he's eaten to date, so maybe I will skip his next feeding and try with a rat again in two weeks.

Here's the deal. Most of the time if the snake immediately strikes and coils a food object it will eat it...eventually! That however is the keyword. "Eventually" I have 14 different snakes and they all feed with different intensities. Eating is a very stressful time for a snake. It MUST feel 100% secure in its surroundings. During the time it is eating it is completely vulnerable to attack because it's only means of defense is not possible during feeding. What the snake is doing is killing the prey to make sure it doesn't go anywhere, then it may hesitate and possibly wander the cage to check for "threats" before it begins to consume. When you go into the tank and "reset" the rat you are confusing and stressing your animal. After it strikes and coils it thinks it's dead. When you interfere the snakes thinks the rat is not dead because it moved plus the snake believes it is now in competition for it food with you because you keep taking it away. Your curious presence maybe the reason your snake may be taking so long to eat. My suggestion is prepare and offer your prey just as you have before then after your snake strikes and coils simply turn the lights out and leave the room or if that's not possible , cover the tank and try not to cause alot of vibration in the room. By the morning most times the rat will be gone . No muss, no fuss. I tend to feed at night when the house is less active and quiet ( I know snakes can't hear but they sense vibrations). Good luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by norwegn113

Here's the deal. Most of the time if the snake immediately strikes and coils a food object it will eat it...eventually! That however is the keyword. "Eventually" I have 14 different snakes and they all feed with different intensities. Eating is a very stressful time for a snake. It MUST feel 100% secure in its surroundings. During the time it is eating it is completely vulnerable to attack because it's only means of defense is not possible during feeding. What the snake is doing is killing the prey to make sure it doesn't go anywhere, then it may hesitate and possibly wander the cage to check for "threats" before it begins to consume. When you go into the tank and "reset" the rat you are confusing and stressing your animal. After it strikes and coils it thinks it's dead. When you interfere the snakes thinks the rat is not dead because it moved plus the snake believes it is now in competition for it food with you because you keep taking it away. Your curious presence maybe the reason your snake may be taking so long to eat. My suggestion is prepare and offer your prey just as you have before then after your snake strikes and coils simply turn the lights out and leave the room or if that's not possible , cover the tank and try not to cause alot of vibration in the room. By the morning most times the rat will be gone . No muss, no fuss. I tend to feed at night when the house is less active and quiet ( I know snakes can't hear but they sense vibrations). Good luck.

---

Thanks for the input! I will try leaving it next time. In my experience, if Argus does not eat it immediately he won't at all, and will just leave it there for me to find later, even if left overnight. Then I just wake up to a cold mouse! He seemingly doesn't mind activity while he eats (my roommates always want to watch, or I'll clean his water dish, or what have you - he doesn't mind). However, I'm willing to give it another try next time around with the rat! He's in my bedroom so it's easy enough to keep it quiet, I'll just come out and hang out in the living room. I'll feed in the evening so it's nice and dark and all that jazz, and the house is naturally quiet anyways :D

Sounds like an episode of the walking dead :rolleyes:

It does not have to be that hard, all it takes is old mice bedding (no need for guts and brain) and a willing snake, switching can take time and they do not all switch to rats.

Not stressing the animal prior to feeding also helps, weighing the snakes, taking it out of the enclosure can lead to enough stress for the animal to refuse food especially when offered a new prey.

Oh yes, and don't forget to leave it in there even over-night if you have to! When my BPs do eat, that's what it usually takes.

UPDATE: I fed today. I waited a full two weeks - 14 days. Usually he is fed every 5 days, mostly because the mice I had were a bit small to be doing every 7. So instead of the 5 he is used to, he went nearly 3X as long. I could tell he was getting hungry about a week in, he would be roaming his cage all over the place. If I went to dig in the dresser (that he is on top of) he'd come out and wait for food. hunting every day. I weighed him a few times to make sure the extra length wasn't going to drop his weight (it didn't) and because he associates weighing with food - it is the only time he is ever weighed - he waited poised outside his hide, head in strike position, before poking around the screen top where I warm the mice up.

Today I weighed him (I thought about not doing so, but I like to get a same day weight and he's used to it at this point). He was so expectant he didn't even go back into his hide when I put him away at first. Popped a rat into some hot water and took a shower while it thawed. Came back and tossed it under his heat bulb to warm it up, and he came right out, tongue flicking like crazy. Offered rat. Struck and coiled pretty viciously after a few moments of hesitation.

HE ATE IT. Yes! Success! I have no idea if he'd have been this easy had I done this last time or if he took it more readily because he's already eaten one but I don't care, I don't think I'll have any more problems. This means I can order a bulk supply of rats and NOT pay my kidneys!

On a side note, I had to go to petco to get a rat, as the local place is closed today (I paid 5.50 for that thing!!!) I popped open the boxes of medium and small rats to check the sizes. An employee asked if I needed help, to which I said nope, just checking to see if I should get a small or a medium. One of the employees nearby helpfully informed me that a snake like my BP should get a mouse no bigger than the size of his head. The other employee helpfully added "I thought it was no bigger than the space between the eyes?" (which is the cricket size rule for lizards). I don't know how the lady could say that, as she said her friend's BP gets medium rats - she has to have seen his head before?! Needless to say I just smiled, nodded, said mine was on small rats but thanks for the tip and left. Yeesh!