Feeding question with a "twist"

Our BP, Snickers is a full grown, healthy female (I was told) adult (7years old) normal. Husbandry is good with even temps, basking areas, water, security, no worries. She has only been with us for a year plus a bit and has about doubled in size with proper feedings. She is currently on meduim f/t rats and for the most part was eating like a champ every week to 10 days. She has refused food that last few attempts with apprently no ill affects. He size is good, weight is good, temprament is good, shed is good. My thinking is she is just being her usual BP self. I have one more rat that is thawing as we speak (last attempt to feed was a last week) and will offer it to her tonight. If she eats, great, if not, I'm not yet concerned.

Now, to my question. My local pet store sells f/t as well as live feeders. They are not sold as pets and fed on the hush hush. They are sold as feeders. My thinking, to save a few bucks and to not waste the rat is to buy live, kill, and offer. If she eats great, if not I can now freeze and offer at a later date. My question revolves around the best way those with experience believe it is the most humane to dispatch the rat.

Option 1. Cervical dislocation. I have reviewed how to do this and feel I can accomplish the task quickly.
Option 2. Dry Ice asphyixiation. I have a local store that carries it, could store it in my deep freeze, and understand how the process works.
Option 3. Brain spike. I have various instruments that could be used to quickly spike the brain resulting in a quick death.

As a hunter I have killed, cleaned, butchered, and eaten game animals. I would not say I "enjoy" the process of taking the life but have respect for it and do my utmost to bring the animals I've killed to the fastest end possible. Even though they are little old rats I still believe in being humane.

So, that being said, I'd like to hear opinions and suggestions on feeding freshly killed as well as those that have experience in pre-killing their snakes prey.

Also, I have no problems with those that feed live but since ours isn't on live, and has never needed to be, I see no reason to consider that as an option until way down the line when the health of the snake may be in question.

When euthanasing weather you are feeding P/K or F/T it all about the method that works for you based on your skills and efficiency and the number of preys you have to dispatch.

I breed my own rodents so any surplus or animals that have reach optimal size is euthanize because of the number I use a CO2 kill chamber now if I only had to do one animal at the time I would chose cervical dislocation.

I just did my first cervical dislocation yesterday. It was quicker than the co2 way I imagine. It felt weird to do but it was for a purpose and in a quick humane way.

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SKO....Thanks for the reply. I've read and watched. It appears as simple as getting a good grip behind the head and tail. A sharp quick pull does the job. Any concern about the rat biting at you? I plan to wear gloves for cleanliness, grip, and protection.

Luckily for me the shop I go to does the pre kill for me. I would imagine that the rat probably knows whats coming and would most likly try to retaliate by any means possible by biting or scratching. I would think some kind of heavy duty gloves like welders gloves might be best.

Again I have no personel experience just my thoughts.

Agreed. My local shop that sells is not allowed to do the killing.

I think the key when I'm hands on will be somewhat similiar to handling the snake. Be assertive and sure about the handling, don't "linger". Not to be to crass but I think the "grip it and go for it" will be best to not stress the prey animal any extra than is needed.

I co2 rats, not comfortable using CD on them, I have used dry ice, now have a co2 tank setup. I do cervical dislocation on mice if there's just a few. You can't really store dry ice very long though, you'd have to buy it at the time you needed it which makes it a bit more hassle.


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I use a paint can opener to pin the head then pull the tail hard. I make sure not to let the rat get over 150 grams otherwise the kill is not quite as smooth since the neck muscles are stronger.

Just do it quick and be forceful about it. Some twitching might happen even though its already dead. Gloves would be alright to use if you're worried about it biting you. If the rat is calm and you do it quick enough though then it won't get the chance to bite you. In the video I watched, the guy had something for the mouse to hold onto with its front paws so that gave it a pencil to hold onto. It works alright and it was quick.

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Now I have a couple decent supplies of frozen, and prefer to stock up with a few months supply, sure you might waste a couple, but kinda comes with the territory. I used to pre-kill a few and freeze, CO2 was a bit complicated, CD is much easier and simpler for me. I wear mechanix gloves, good grip, won't get scratched, would have to be one hell of a bite to get through, but that isn't likely if you handle by the tail. I used a small plastic cutting board and a wide plastic putty knife with the edge rounded, both must be easy to clean if the rat messes on the board. Hold the neck down and trap the head with the putty knife, pull the tail upwards about 45 degrees hard so the body stretches out and relaxes instantly. If you then plan to freeze or if the snake won't take it, put it in the back with the freezer on a peice of cardboard at a cold setting so it freezes about as quick as it can, will be much better when it thaws than if it freezes slow and ices up.

Well, took my time warming up the rat last night....no dice. Pre scented the room, she got interested and looked ready to feed, did the same thing we have for the past year plus, she checked it out, and moved on. I went ahead and left it overnight and this morning she was content to have left it. So, one more rat chucked. I think I'll wait up to two weeks prior to offering again. Like I said in the first post her weight and health is fine so I'll just take it in stride. Thanks for the replys and suggestions on methods.

Feeding thawed can take some work, even then going off of food for a few weeks is completely normal, and not an indicator on it's own of a problem, they can go off of feed with live too, just doesn't seem as often or as long. You find what your snake likes, mine is sensitive to cool spots, I warm for 20 min in hot tap water, pat dry, then lay under a heat light for another 10 minutes to warm and scent, flip and warm for 5 on the other side, if the rat is an even 90 or so all over she will usually take it fast, before I started flipping it, one side was about 80, the other 90, and it took a long zombie dance to work. If she won't take it or shows little interest after a couple minutes, I'll put it back under the light for another 5 minutes a side, and try again, then leave it in the cage if she doesn't eat right away, and toss it if it's still there in the morning.

You also want to make sure your source has clean quality rats, re-freezing either intentionally or during shipment/storage makes them practically unuseable, the big online places quick freeze, ship with dry ice, and usually have good consistent quality, you have to really look at the rats from local shops or shows close. Feeding frozen can trade some degree of feed reliability for cost and convenience, buying in bulk online, you can cut costs in 1/2 or more, cheaper than buying local live, and prekilling, then freezing after a feeding attempt. My routine costs less than $2 a week for small/med rats, sure there is some wasted feeders, and as a hunter and animal lover that does bother me too, but it is practically unavoidable unless you plan on keeping live rats with all the care and costs in addition to a snake.

You make some good points. For about the last year the rats she was eating were from a local "herper" that raised and culled the herd on a regular basis. I would refer to thread about "organic rats" to be spot on for what she was used to eating. Basically...she is just a normal bp in all ways. Also, since coming into our care she has grown, flourished, and become quite the content snake.

Well, all has been handled.

I purchsed two small (they were out of meduim) feeders. Took them home, dispatched cleanly the first feeder, and offered her dinner. She smelled, investigated, then ingnored for the next hour her freshly killed prey. So, into the freezer it went. Second rat was also dispatched and frozen for a later feeding.

I will simply moniter her weight, purchase a feeder every 10 days or so, pre kill, and offer to her. If she feeds great, I'll have some rats ready to go. If not, and her weight does not drop any concerning amount, so be it. Now at least I am not wasting money or wasting a perfectly good rat.

Thanks for the help and the feedback.

Well, out BP is still fasting. I thought i would post up to mainly offer encouragement for those that are novices (like me) dealing with the same thing. She hasn't eaten in about 2 1/2 months. I've been offering freshly killed every two weeks. Once rejected they go in the freezer for later feeding.

Original weight 2040 grams. Current weight, 2018 grams. So, for those that were stressing about it like I was: relax. She is obviously in control, doing her thing, so now that I've gotten over it I'm much less stressed.

Not too much weight loss but keep an eye on it. Cervical Dislocation is definitely the best way of the methods listed. You may want to try feeding one of the Frozen/Thawed - I have some on F/T that won't eat live or P/K. I would recommend smaller prey to get over a feeding strike.

Thanks. Since she has fed all her life on f/t I know it is just a matter of time before she decides its go time. I'm also building up a nice little supply in the freezer. I make sure her water is fresh and full every other day and we are weighing her once a week. She is going into shed, pink belly stage now, and I'm hoping the extra energy spent to shed will jump start her. May offer a mouse just to see what happens as well.

Just a quick bump and update, again, mainly to encourage those that have a bp fasting as we do. Snickers is still off the feed. It has been a solid 3 months now and no sign of ending. Her last weigh in this week she is at 2015 grams. Thats about a 3 gram loss since last weigh in. No big deal. She was offered her usual prekilled rat on a two week schedule. She acted very interested then could not have cared less. Temps and husbandry all same, no changes and no concerns about temp gradiant. She is pink belly and pre shed now so I'm hoping that she will shed, I'll give her enclosure a complete change out and cleaning, let her settle, then we should be ready for the next two week interval and offer of food.

Now a quick question. I was thiking of offering a mouse to change it up. I can get live locally and don't have a problem with live feeding and supervision. Any suggestion on if a mouse would be a good/bad idea to stimulate a feeding? Since she is just over 2000 grams do you think the prey would be to small to be seen as food?

Imo, I would give the mouse a try. Maybe you should consider breeding her? :gj:

I'm now wondering if she is a she at all!

The first owner to my knowlege only was told female......I'm thinking Snickers may be a male and after a year in our care and getting up to size is simply doing what normal males bp's do. Go off feed during the normal breeding season, acting like a goofy bp, and just trying to make us stress.

I'll go with a mouse next time. At least I'm builing up a nice supply of frozen rats!

Update on my own older thread.

So happy. We have a succesfull feeding! It's been just over 5 months. Never had any behaviour changes or husbandy changes. Was still offering a freshly killed rat every two weeks with no luck. Total weight loss was really very little and she was drinking during her fast just fine. Warmed up a previously attempted rat last night, left it for her, and 45 minutes later down the hatch.

So....for anyone else that has a snake on a fast my best advice to the novice like myself is to just hang in there!

Congrats! Having them take a meal after a fast is a very good feeling. Especially such a long fast. Did we ever get the clarification on Snickers sex or no? :confusd:

Nope. Since she, if a she, is not ever going to be bred and is a standard old normal and my sons pet I don't see the need.

Well, last update for this thread. Hopefully a few newbies will find it and get a little encouragement out of my experience as a 1st time BP owner and have a snake decide to fast.

After the 2nd successfull feeding we decided to stick to the two week schedule. Considering she is good sized and healthy I figured this would give her plenty of time to digest, pass any waste needed, get in the hunt, then be ready when I ring the dinner bell. Knowing I had a busy weekend I thawed out a nice rat (previously offered freshly killed then frozen), warmed it up, opened up her top, she ducked her head back in the hide and as soon as I laid it down she just smoked it. Big hit, knocked her hide half off her, some coil, and down the hatch it went in record time.

So, with three successfull feedings, two passes of waste, and a fresh shed I would say Snickers is officially back in action.

Keep your chin up if yours decides to fast, get over the fact that they will eat when they want, not when you want, and eventually, when you quite expecting them to eat, whammo, they flip the switch.