Why..

I fed EchoRed two days ago, and what i wanna know is WHY is she that big that much down her body..??

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...psb4c4f05b.jpg

She may be preparing to hold eggs. You should palpate her.


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never done that before so iono how to perform palpating at all..i'll try but when i TRY to perform that palpating i don't feel nothing..

I have never been able to feel anything. Even in girls just before they laid.
Its a feel thing.
If she is building you better start building an incubator.

thanks young sir, if that's the case i haven't captured the two i have, locking up at all, not even an attempt so incubator 4, had these snakes for a total of 5 years and whenever she eats she gets big like that poops it out and kinda returns back to her usual size.. But next month i'm gonna purchase a 100% het male to see where he might take her babies..

here's what i'm seeing when i walk up to the tank..Don't judge my setup, been working for them this long lpus i need to find work so i can upgrade..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk0v...ature=youtu.be

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

But next month i'm gonna purchase a 100% het male to see where he might take her babies..

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Het what? Either way putting recessive to her with chances of a normal male being in the mix will be a total waste of time.
A het only carries the gene but is not visual.
All you are going to do is get a clutch of POSSIBLE 50% hets, only worth normal pricing because you will not know who the daddy is.

understood SIR, when i take her out to palpate her ill snap pics of HER underbelly, she is different and i know she has some special gene in her.. the ones they say that it might be is Albinos, Ghosts, Caramels & Pieds, either one of those i'm all good..underbelly picture coming in like 15 mins...

Only one of those you listed has markers....... Even possible het pieds with strong tracks havent proven out.

Why are you buying up snakes to breed and add more mouths to feed and take care of down the road when you don't even have a steady income to take care of what you have?

here she goes.. Never mind my apt appearance, LOL...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN28uIqwj8M&feature=youtu.be

Dont know who has been filling your head with what could be there.
She is a good looking normal but I am not seeing anything to believe there is anything more in there.
Could be just me but I doubt it.

I dont have many notmals to start with and after going through a couple hundred photos the only real belly shots are from an unregulated UTH and that wont do good here and some of my yellow belly male.
This is the only offering I have.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...e/P1020584.jpg

Dude....your "skin wall" is creepy!

LOL, the "skin wall" is just to show their growing progress so i always have a clue + those are my snakes(kids) OLD clothes that don't fit anymore, salvation army WON'T take em, LOLOL...

My first thought was "C'mon man....you are gonna scare the ladies away big time!!!!!!!!!!!!"

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Originally Posted by h20hunter

Dude....your "skin wall" is creepy!

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Originally Posted by h20hunter

My first thought was "C'mon man....you are gonna scare the ladies away big time!!!!!!!!!!!!"

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I assumed that the "skin wall" you were referring to the posters up on the walls in the apartment in the most recent video. Your comments are still applicable if this is, in fact, what you were talking about.

Posters? I was referring to the sheds? I must have missed the posters....I'll rewatch.


Ok....I saw the 2nd vid.....I get yah.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

here she goes.. Never mind my apt appearance, LOL...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN28uIqwj8M&feature=youtu.be

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Normal belly those are not Het Pied Markers

if they can't take my kids then i DON'T need em over here...;)

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

if they can't take my kids then i DON'T need em over here...;)

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Hehe, right on. I was gonna say, if the snakes scare people away, those aren't people you want as friends/dates anyway! :gj:

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

thanks young sir, if that's the case i haven't captured the two i have, locking up at all, not even an attempt so incubator 4, had these snakes for a total of 5 years and whenever she eats she gets big like that poops it out and kinda returns back to her usual size.. But next month i'm gonna purchase a 100% het male to see where he might take her babies..

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As said before, a 100% het for what? The female you have is a normal, 90% of true hets do not show any markers for what they are het for. It’s a guessing game, and since she is a NORMAL, you pairing a 100% het for anything will just get you all NORMALS. And judging by your previous thread, you’re in it for the money, because ‘times is hard’ and a normal is worth maybe $20-$40. You’ll be spending more money in husbandry, food, an incubator, and tanks/tubs for the babies than what you’ll be making.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

lpus i need to find work so i can upgrade..

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Again, as said before, why on earth would you buy another snake, when you don’t have a steady job?? That’s another mouth to feed, and another tank to buy. It’s bad enough, that you have two snakes in the same cage at that. I would focus on your financial stability before you buy more animals that will drain your income….

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

understood SIR, when i take her out to palpate her ill snap pics of HER underbelly, she is different and i know she has some special gene in her.. the ones they say that it might be is

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

Albinos, Ghosts, Caramels & Pieds, either one of those i'm all good..underbelly picture coming in like 15 mins...

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You say that you know that she has a special gene in her and that she is different looking then a ‘normal’ normal. But a normal can come in a multitude of colors, and wacky patterns and no two normals are quite the same. The only het you listed up there that shows markers is a pied. As I’ve stated (and many others have as well) if you breed her with a Het anything, you are going to get all NORMALS that MAY be 50% het. You will not get any visual anything.
This is my first time posting in either of your threads, but come on man it’s like talking to a wall. Everyone is trying to give you the best advice, and you just aren’t listening or comprehending. I’m not trying to be mean, you look like a great person who has a passion for an awesome hobby.
But before you sink any more money into a hobby that requires a lot of money to start with. PLEASE do as much research as possible, for your sake, and for the sake of however many snakes you end up with.

Unless you know what your snake is "looks like a normal" getting a het of something your hoping for is the wrong way to put it and what happens when you have 7-8 eggs to take care of when your having a hard time careing for these 2 normals

To be brutally honest i wouldnt waste my time on hets i would get something visual something thats gonna produce visual babies right out of egg

So, who exactly is "they" ?

Because "they" don't seem to know jack about ball pythons.

Your snake is a female normal. Period. A normal. A dime-a-dozen, seen a thousand times, you can't GIVE them away normal. And that is ALL she is.

The whole "she might be a het for one of these" is ridiculous. Even if she were het, and the chances are about the same odds as winning the lottery, without knowing WHAT het, you could potentially buy and breed her to what?? a dozen different males that are visual for a recessive gene and still not get the right one. Why on earth would you do that? And as far as doing a het male to her, that is on the verge of being just plain idiotic. You could buy and breed her to a different male every year for the rest of her life and still only get normals. And that assumes she even is het. And assuming anything just makes a you-know-what out of you and me.

Normals come in a huge range of color and pattern variances, so despite how much she "looks like more than a normal", I'd bet you Fort Knox she's nothing more than a normal. If I had a dime for every time I heard someone say that their normal "doesn't look like a normal so it must be something else" I'd be richer than Donald Trump. And it would take a lotta dang dimes for that!

So despite what "they" tell you, if you spend your time and money that you don't have chasing after this elusive " she might be a het to this, that, or the other, I pity both you and your snakes. Wake up to the reality of owning snakes first, then worry about breeding. And when you are responsible enough to breed, at least have the competence to know what you are breeding, and what you hope to produce. And not just throwing two snakes together to see what happens. Heaven knows there are enough abused, neglected and unwanted ball pythons out there that no one needs to be creating a bigger problem with irresponsible breeding.

Gale

Listen everyone, before you go any further with your comments. Check out the breeding forum , look at I believe I have a question, by the original poster. You will get no where with him. Just read the post, it's getting crazy. It's like climbing a mountain with oil on your hands. This guy does not want to listen, I have no idea why he even asks questions. Just read his post in the breeder section. It seems he is asking the same questions here as he did over there. I guess he thinks he's talking to a totally different set of people.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rage: WHY!!

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

LOL,............OLD clothes that don't fit anymore, salvation army WON'T take em, LOLOL...

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Now that's funny! :D:D:D

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Originally Posted by angllady2

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Normals come in a huge range of color and pattern variances, so despite how much she "looks like more than a normal", I'd bet you Fort Knox she's nothing more than a normal. If I had a dime for every time I heard someone say that their normal "doesn't look like a normal so it must be something else" I'd be richer than Donald Trump. And it would take a lotta dang dimes for that!

..........

Gale

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I find it interesting that you say this. I am NOT being argumentative , but am confused with some morphs.

People will post a pic and say look at my Cinn, or my Granite, or 6 others. If you put a gun to my head and asked me to identify the snakes, I would swear that they were all Normals! And I think to myself, "you paid $200, $400, etc for that? It's not prettier than my Normal ". So I can see where the confusion lies in what you say.

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Originally Posted by Reinz

I find it interesting that you say this. I am NOT being argumentative , but am confused with some morphs.

People will post a pic and say look at my Cinn, or my Granite, or 6 others. If you put a gun to my head and asked me to identify the snakes, I would swear that they were all Normals! And I think to myself, "you paid $200, $400, etc for that? It's not prettier than my Normal ". So I can see where the confusion lies in what you say.

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Normally the price tag comes with them because the "something special" that people think they see is proven to be genetic. I have seen normals that prove to be nothing that look 10x better than some of the subtle morphs...but sadly none of the traits that make the look good are carried down to their young. Are snakes coming out that look almost normal that are being bred to make new morphs?...yes Are the odds of grabbing two snakes sold as normal and getting something special so phenomenology low that it is not worth it to even try? ...yes

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Originally Posted by Reinz

I find it interesting that you say this. I am NOT being argumentative , but am confused with some morphs.

People will post a pic and say look at my Cinn, or my Granite, or 6 others. If you put a gun to my head and asked me to identify the snakes, I would swear that they were all Normals! And I think to myself, "you paid $200, $400, etc for that? It's not prettier than my Normal ". So I can see where the confusion lies in what you say.

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Okay so, I'm a n00b when it comes to breeding and morphs and such things, but even I can usually tell after looking at only a couple pics the difference between normals and even really subtle morphs. To use the ones you listed as examples, cinnys are a rich brown, and often have alien heads that form rings which don't connect to the belly, and granites look... pixelated? Like the alien heads are low res jpegs with artifacts, lol.

The thing with each of these morphs is that yeah, they probably started out as being considered "special looking normals" too. But someone who had a better idea of what they're doing than this guy went through the effort to prove them out as distinct genes. When paired to other known morphs, they keep some sort of that same distinction with them and affect how the offspring come out. Pair up a normal with other morphs and... all you're gonna get are normals and that morph (for dom or co-com) or het normals (for recessive). Judging by his other post, the OP seems to think he has some sort of holy grail of het normals, "because it looks different" and wants to stick it with his other normal to get amazing $$$ babies? But that just isn't likely to happen.

LL, I understand what a Cinny, Granite, or some others SHOULD look like. My point is they don't, yet they get credit for it while they look more "normal".

And I will accept ignorance on my part as well.

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Originally Posted by Tigerhawk

Listen everyone, before you go any further with your comments. Check out the breeding forum , look at I believe I have a question, by the original poster. You will get no where with him. Just read the post, it's getting crazy. It's like climbing a mountain with oil on your hands. This guy does not want to listen, I have no idea why he even asks questions. Just read his post in the breeder section. It seems he is asking the same questions here as he did over there. I guess he thinks he's talking to a totally different set of people.

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Originally Posted by Tigerhawk

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rage: WHY!!

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Plainly insulting someone will make climbing that mountain impossible. What ever happened to responsible education? There is a right way and a wrong way to educate someone, you and any others making posts like these are not helping and need to stop.

As for these two and possible ovulation; how long have you had them in together? If you have had them in together for as long as you've had them and have never had eggs before, are you totally sure about their sexes? Is it possible you have two females, or even two males?

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Originally Posted by Reinz

LL, I understand what a Cinny, Granite, or some others SHOULD look like. My point is they don't, yet they get credit for it while they look more "normal".

And I will accept ignorance on my part as well.

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I think that comes down to people breeding snakes that aren't very high quality. It seems like a lot of people get into this hobby with a lot of enthusiasm, but not much discretion or patience. The result is getting a lot of really "meh" snakes passed off.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

I think that comes down to people breeding snakes that aren't very high quality. It seems like a lot of people get into this hobby with a lot of enthusiasm, but not much discretion or patience. The result is getting a lot of really "meh" snakes passed off.

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I'd have to agree you can see a huge difference in high and low quality/apperance of any of the designer morph snakes and you have to start with the best of any given morph to make some of the stunners we see in pictures and those pictures often are that breeders HOLD BACKs I want the hold backs! A snake that is carrying a gene does no make it a prime example and they vary as much as normals it seems

I wasn't trying to be insulting. Just read the other thread. ( The truth hurts some times).;)

what's a reason for this young lady's size after eating last on the 26th of this month and NO lockups that i saw unless she had some stored away for a rainy day..

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...psb8dac5f7.jpg

The 26th was only what 4-5 days ago? She could be holding in a massive bowel movement that she's saving for the perfect moment.

In previous threads, you've stated that you've had her for over 5 years? During that time (if properly maintained and fed) ball pythons tend to get a little chubby, mainly because they are overfed in captivity. I have an 8 year normal ball that is 2,500 grams, and still gaining.

Again, in previous threads, you've stated that they have been together in the same cage, for 5 years. If you've not seen any locks, or she has never laid once in those 5 years, I highly doubt she's that big because she's gravid. One question was asked in one of your previous threads on gender, are you positive that you even have a male and female? You may have two males, and every so often you may see them "lock" but in reality they are fighting for dominance. If you have two females, you may have a .0000001% chance to get eggs from parthenogenesis, but that is so rare that it almost never happens.

This is also quite similar to the thread you made a few days ago: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...php?222537-Why myself, and others have already tried to help you.

thanks for the reply, she moved a bowel last night/this morning so i cleaned it out when i got up, the two i have are brother and sister and before you get started i already know the risks of having them breed another reason i'm getting the 100% het male in 2 days, don't care what type of het it is, that just means to me that i gotta start out with whatever comes out of her.. she's staying on the "cool side" of her tank and i have a small fan on top of that side, so iono what's going on with her..

I've read the other threads about this subject and just haven't said anything. Do you think people are lying when they tell you that breeding a 100% het ANYTHING to your NORMAL female will give you a litter of normals that you'll hardly be able to give away, much less make money off of? You'll lose money on this breeding adventure.
This forum isn't filled with a bunch of mean people who want you not to breed so you'll lose money. Everyone is trying to keep you from ending up with a bunch of baby snakes that you can't make money off of but still have to find time and money to care for.

Also, the same people read and reply to the different sections of this forum... You won't get different answers by posting in a different section.

You said that you're getting a 100% het, male in two days, and you don't care what type of het it is.... You are aware, that if you breed a 100% het, regardless of what its het for, to a normal, all you are going to get is ALL NORMALS.

I understand that you have to start somewhere, but at least do your research first. You're wasting what little money you have by buying a het.

And why on earth do you have a fan pointed in the cage? That's a good way to get a respiratory infection...

I'm double posting. Here I've done the work for you, here is the Genetic Wizard from World of Ball Pythons.

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wi...ale=1:1&female=

This is a good way to determine what your chances are when breeding snakes. Since you don't care what type of het you are getting, I just chose a male that is het for albinism, and a normal female (which you have). When mated, you get.... ALL NORMALS, with 50% being het for albino, meaning they are still NORMAL, but MAY produce albinos when bred together.

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Originally Posted by Montypython696

I'm double posting. Here I've done the work for you, here is the Genetic Wizard from World of Ball Pythons.

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wi...ale=1:1&female=

This is a good way to determine what your chances are when breeding snakes. Since you don't care what type of het you are getting, I just chose a male that is het for albinism, and a normal female (which you have). When mated, you get.... ALL NORMALS, with 50% being het for albino, meaning they are still NORMAL, but MAY produce albinos when bred together.

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You can lead a horse to water, but I don't think it will do a darn bit of good. Having said that, here's a better option to illustrate your point:

Male:	Normal
Female:	Het Albino
Percent	Fraction	Traits
100%	1/1	50% Possible Het Albino
View Results Page

OP: The most likely reasons for her size are: 1) developing follicles, and 2) food. The first is likely because she is an adult female and environmental changes this time of year, combined with the fact that she's living with a male, tend to trigger follicle growth. The second is likely because she just ate 5 days ago - that meal hasn't worked through her system yet.

AIGHT DROP the breeding thing, ive never seen her like this for sooo long after eating and the rat wasn't even the biggest she's had, so circulating air in the tank is a bad idea, i thought wind blows in the wild.. my tank is setup different than errryybody else'...

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

AIGHT DROP the breeding thing, ive never seen her like this for sooo long after eating and the rat wasn't even the biggest she's had, so circulating air in the tank is a bad idea, i thought wind blows in the wild.. my tank is setup different than errryybody else'...

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Does wind blow inside thin rock crevices in the wild? Not often.

If you want people to drop the breeding thing, you probably shouldn't ask questions about breeding... You've already been told there's probably nothing going on since you've had her with a male for five years with no results.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

You can lead a horse to water, but I don't think it will do a darn bit of good.

Having said that, here's a better option to illustrate your point:

Male:	Normal
Female:	Het Albino
Percent	Fraction	Traits
100%	1/1	50% Possible Het Albino
View Results Page

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That's all i want/need, gotta start somewhere.. 50% is better than NO%

At this point I'm starting to wonder if you know what "het" means? Have you done even the tiniest bit of research regarding how genetics work? It's not THAT hard to understand recessive/dominant genetic inheritance, go find a punnett square. Het is short for heterozygous. That means the snake carries ONE half of the recessive gene (vast over simplification, but I'm gonna leave alleles or anything else possibly confusing out ftm). If you want to get a snake that visually expresses- that is, actually looks like- that gene, you need to pair it with a snake that is carrying that VERY SAME GENE as well, so that their offspring have a chance of getting two matching pairs. You've said before you think your snake is het, or you're gonna get a het, or whatever, but you don't even know het for what? In another post, you listed a lot of different morphs like you were randomly picking out of a hat. But you aren't going to get some sort of rare snake jackpot that way.

Seriously, this is seventh grade science. You're a grown adult, you should be able to get your learning on.

DVirginiana <--- dude, what was the main topic of this thread..?? why my female python is so big right, so why are you jumping off topic.. people see that and just wanna jump in and place their 2Cents into the topic that you twisted around with your smart remarks... i don't need that in my life or on what's supposed to be a forum to help people out about things..

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

DVirginiana <--- dude, what was the main topic of this thread..?? why my female python is so big right, so why are you jumping off topic.. people see that and just wanna jump in and place their 2Cents into the topic that you twisted around with your smart remarks... i don't need that in my life or on what's supposed to be a forum to help people out about things..

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First off, I'm far from the only one talking about your other threads, since this is pretty much the same question you've been asking. Not sure why you took so much offense to my comment, considering everyone is telling you the same thing. The main topic of your thread was the increase in size of your female; Like you've been told by others, this is probably not related to breeding based on the fact that she's been with a male for five years and probably is not suddenly gravid or preparing to mate.

If you don't want answers, don't ask questions. People have been trying to help you, you just won't listen.

UNDERSTOOD LIZARDLICKS, jus saying the morph i wanna end up with in the long run of doing this would cost me a down payment of Nissan GTR and i ain't got it like that, SOOO i gotta do it the long drawn out way...

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

UNDERSTOOD LIZARDLICKS, jus saying the morph i wanna end up with in the long run of doing this would cost me a down payment of Nissan GTR and i ain't got it like that, SOOO i gotta do it the long drawn out way...

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Or you can save up and buy some visual morphs instead of wasting time with breeding a het anything to a normal female.

By the time you finally get to the morph you want to end up with, you would have invested enough money in caging/food/proper husbandry/ incubators/whatever else you need for them, you would have been able to buy a Nissan GTR instead of just a down payment.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

UNDERSTOOD LIZARDLICKS, jus saying the morph i wanna end up with in the long run of doing this would cost me a down payment of Nissan GTR and i ain't got it like that, SOOO i gotta do it the long drawn out way...

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I don't think the Nissan dealership would appreciate a $500 down payment on a $100,000 car.