How to? Kill?

How do you kill a rat? painlessly as possible
My big girl eats big rats but is getting lazy about it. Tonight she bit the live rats butt and coiled his back legs not constricting his vital organs but more just making a big rat angry. I was unable to break up the fight and to stop the rats biting and clawing I had to manually strangle the rat while she just held its legs for me to do her dirty work. It was horrible and heart braking to do but she was gonna get tore up if I didn't do something right then. So if this stubborn girl will only eat it if it's alive how do you stop the rat from doing any damage
please not frozen or dead ideas. all my other guys will take these options but ever sence I got her she ignores it unless it has a heart beat. I have tried and she wants to stalk her prey or she's just not interested
thank you

The most humane, quickest way to kill a rat is cervical dislocation. Grab the neck at the base of the skull with one hand and the base of the tail with the other, and give a steady, firm pull. If done right, the rat will die instantly, and in my experience will have little to no twitching.

The only way you'll stop your snake from getting injured is by offering fresh-killed or f/t, even stunned prey can injure/kill your snake. The key to switching is persistence. It took me 1.5 years to switch my ball python to f/t from live, which he ate live for ~6 years of his life, so I was very late to the game, and he has changed how he prefers to be offered f/t several times (he used to get scared when I dangled the rat/mouse, now he gladly takes them from the tongs). Just keep at it and try many different ways and you'll eventually get her to eat f/t, if you want to switch her. Ball pythons can be supremely picky in how they eat, especially when trying to get them to switch from live.

There is no humane way that I'm aware of to kill a rat after it's already been constricted that is safe for both you and the snake. You need to keep your tongs with you ready to put them in the rat's mouth if something like that happens. Putting your hand near a dying rat is going to eventually end with you needing stitches.

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

The only way you'll stop your snake from getting injured is by offering fresh-killed or f/t, even stunned prey can injure/kill your snake.

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Not true... Stunning is actually more dangerous for the snake and cruel to the rat, and shouldn't be considered as an option... And some snakes simply will not make the switch to f/t without compromising their health.

There is a seven page thread about this exact argument going on right now if you haven't already seen it lol.

Edit: Cervical dislocation would be a good idea like Cloudtheboa said if you can find someone to teach you how. But were you saying the snake won't take freshly pre-killed or just won't take f/t?

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

Not true... Stunning is actually more dangerous for the snake and cruel to the rat, and shouldn't be considered as an option... And some snakes simply will not make the switch to f/t without compromising their health.

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Nobody recommended it.

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Originally Posted by Joe balls

My big girl eats big rats ... just making a big rat angry.

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How big of a rat are you talking about?

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Originally Posted by tbowman

Nobody recommended it.

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It looked to me like it was listed as a 'no go' option along with feeding live. I was saying that one is a legitimately bad idea while the other is not. Sorry if I misinterpreted that.

If you don't want to feed live and would rather feed f/t the efficient human ways to dispatch a feeders are as followed

Cervical dislocation if you have a small number to dispatch and if you are efficient at it.

CO2 chamber for larger numbers, must be done properly.

If you buy your feeder from a store some will pre-kill it for you as well.

Now the stunning issue not only is is inhumane but very dangerous for your snake, a rat coming out of a daze (and it can happen) when stunned is not gonna be the feeder you want stuck in a cage with your snake, that fall in the irresponsible live feeding category, so if you want to feed something with a heartbeat it will have to be live and here are the tricks.

First it starts with the feeder itself, make sure it is well fed and well hydrated especially if you buy it from a store.

Do not stress the feeder, no dangling by it's tail as you feed it etc.

Than scent the room

Feed an appropriate size rat, BP do not need large rats, I have a 4000 grams females she eats 150 grams rats at the very most, keep in mind that because they can eat large prey does not mean they need or should, BP are overfed in captivity as it is.

Remove rat after 10 min

Etc

If you cannot feed live successfully than you gonna need to use tough love and convert it, even if it takes months.

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

It looked to me like it was listed as a 'no go' option along with feeding live. I was saying that one is a legitimately bad idea while the other is not. Sorry if I misinterpreted that.

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I see what you mean now. The wording just confused me. I thought you took that as her recommending stunned prey.

I think that post was just meant to imply that f/t is the only way to completely eliminate all risk of a bite. 100% of the time. That is something that I don't think many would argue.

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Originally Posted by tbowman

I see what you mean now. The wording just confused me. I thought you took that as her recommending stunned prey.

I think that post was just meant to imply that f/t is the only way to completely eliminate all risk of a bite. 100% of the time. That is something that I don't think many would argue.

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I just finished reading that other thread, so maybe that influenced how I read it. But yeah, I agree with that. I'd actually feed f/t if I could, but my BP isn't as keen on that idea as I am.

I'm not a hundred percent sure, but I think you mean "daze".

If your girl is getting lazy about eating she may also not be all that hungry, so you may want to extend her schedule. If you're offering every seven days now, push it out to 10 or 14 days, and see if there's a difference in her behavior.

I have a male doing that, though he's on f/t - he hits the rat, holds it a while, eventually he'll throw one lazy coil around it, "kills" it, and then leaves it.

A few answer to questions posed in response.
the rats size this time was a medium close to large because the large rats that they had were the size of a chihuahua.
She had to be hungry as she skipped a week while she shed. She also was very interested in eating and was on the rat in no time. I know what you ment about the stitches in this scenario but the rats whole body was free not just its mouth so I had to stop clawing arms as well as biting teeth both at the same time.i had no options in my eyes and just reacted. I tried the fresh dead because when putting feeders in their keeper one bolted as I closed the door and snapped its neck but my girl acts like its sick or something and goes in her feeding hide as to say "you should know better then to offer me this nasty dead thing."
(just weighed her 3434 w/rat inside and about 5yrs old) like I said I must have been lucky so far because when it come to feeding my snakes I haven't had any of the common headaches the other 3 eat like champs and I guess she does as well just getting sloppy about her kills and its gonna hurt her.

When I was experimenting with feeding my snakes freshly killed, I was using dry ice (which is a solid form of CO2).

Just put a rat in a plastic container, put a little plastic cup with dry ice in the container and give it 5 minutes. Worked for me very well.

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Originally Posted by Joe balls

I tried the fresh dead because when putting feeders in their keeper one bolted as I closed the door and snapped its neck but my girl acts like its sick or something and goes in her feeding hide as to say "you should know better then to offer me this nasty dead thing."

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Are you just laying the dead rat in there? Have you tried moving a fresh killed one around with tongs? None of my herps will take food just laid into their enclosure. I was actually surprised when I saw on here that people can sometimes just leave the prey in the tank with their snakes and come back to find it eaten!
(I feel like you probably tried that, but it doesn't hurt to ask ;))

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

Are you just laying the dead rat in there? Have you tried moving a fresh killed one around with tongs? None of my herps will take food just laid into their enclosure. I was actually surprised when I saw on here that people can sometimes just leave the prey in the tank with their snakes and come back to find it eaten!
(I feel like you probably tried that, but it doesn't hurt to ask ;))

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No I do the dangle tease dance like that for all my snakes too so they strike it and coil up on it. I was wondering who people got there snakes to take food easily off the floor. It seems to me if I have to dangle it too long and it cools down alittle I need to blow dry it and heat it up to make them think it's still alive.

Sweetie, at her size, going a year without eating isn't going to hurt her any. Trust me, I had an import fast for 18 months and only loose about 300 grams. If you are sincerely worried about her lazy feeding response, then you can do one of two things. Do not feed her for about 4 or 5 weeks. Long enough to make her darn good and hungry, and then see if she behaves the same way again. If she does, or if you just don't want to take a chance on live again, then move on to choice number 2. Don't feed her anything for a solid 8 to 12 weeks. I mean it. You think you are being cruel, but trust me she'll be just fine. After that time, offer her an f/t or p/k rat, no more than about 150-200 grams. If she doesn't take it, and even after all that time there is a chance she won't, then let her go another 4 - 6 weeks and try again. When she gets hungry enough, she'll get down off her high horse and eat whatever you offer. I've done it repeatedly with adult snakes, and I've only ever had one that held out on me until my nerve broke and I gave her live again.

There is a persistent myth that adult ball pythons must eat weekly or something terrible will happen. But in reality an adult ball python, by which I mean over about 2 years old an 1200-1500 grams, can easily go for weeks and months without food and they do it on a regular basis. It is MUCH harder on us as keeper's than it is on them, and I speak from personal experience. Most people like at least their females to eat weekly because this puts them at breeding weight faster, but it isn't necessary. My adult females in fact eat better and more consistently if I offer only every 10 - 14 days.

I know this is easy for me to say, but believe me I know how much harder it is to put into practice. Watching your snake go week after week and then month after month and not eat is enough to put you in a room with padded walls, but as long as she isn't loosing a lot of weight, nothing terrible will happen to her. You on the other hand may need the nice young men in the clean white coats before it's over. I know I came close a few times with my import. By the way, the secret to getting her to feed I discovered through much trial and error is she wants small food. And by that I mean no more than about 50 grams, even though she weighs 3400 grams and could eat much larger prey. So as difficult as it will be for you, do consider what I've suggested. A hungry ball is much less likely to be a picky ball.

Gale