Follicle growth/stages ..

I was palpating one of my females tonight as I put her back in her tub after I finished cleaning and counted 6 possibly 7 follicles. This is my first time ever actually feeling follicles. Without a doubt I for sure felt 6, the first 3 or so were about the size of a ping pong ball maybe a tad smaller and the last couple seemed to get a little smaller in size as my finger got closer to the end of her body. I purchased this female a proven breeder in July 2014 she had just laid a clutch two months before I purchased her, and she has not been paired while she has been with me. My question is, do non fertilized follicles reach this size? Or is it possible that she has retained sperm and I could possibly have and unexpected clutch on the way??

I would not rely on retained sperm to get the job done...Put a male with her.

The female at topic is a Het. Caramel Albino, I was not planning on breeding her this year because I havent been able to get a Visual male to pair her with. If she does happen to pop out some fertile eggs however, I am prepaired for them as I have some other pairings I have been making with the rest of my collection. I'm more less trying to get a lil education on follicles, as this is my first season breeding. Another female that I have that has been locked twice over the past month and a half and I cant even feel a trace of follicles in her. Then this female I just happen to check as I was putting her back in the rack (more less practicing) and bam I feel plain as day at least 6 almost ping pong size firm follicles ...

Well all follicles are UN-fertilised - that happens at ovulation and they are called eggs thereafter.

If you don't want to breed her then all you can do is avoid putting a male in - retained sperm is beyond our ability to control.

So yes I'd keep an eye on her and prepare if she goes to ovulation.

If they are this as big as a ping pong ball as u said then she will more than likely ovulate. It would be a wast of the animals reserves not to put a male in with here. If drops a cluth of infertile eggs then that female has lost more than 1/3 of her body weight for no good reason. If she ovulates and there is no fresh sperm to fertilise the eggs then she will still drop a clutch of sluggs

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Originally Posted by Jt balls

If they are this as big as a ping pong ball as u said then she will more than likely ovulate. It would be a wast of the animals reserves not to put a male in with here. If drops a cluth of infertile eggs then that female has lost more than 1/3 of her body weight for no good reason. If she ovulates and there is no fresh sperm to fertilise the eggs then she will still drop a clutch of sluggs

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Not necessarily -- I had a female give me 8 viable eggs a couple years ago, using nearly three-year-old retained sperm.

There's still time for her to resorb her follicles (I've had a girl get to the very edge of ovy before resorbing), but I second dr del. If she ovulates, be ready with the incubator just in case she gives good eggs.

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Originally Posted by Alicia

Not necessarily -- I had a female give me 8 viable eggs a couple years ago, using nearly three-year-old retained sperm.

There's still time for her to resorb her follicles (I've had a girl get to the very edge of ovy before resorbing), but I second dr del. If she ovulates, be ready with the incubator just in case she gives good eggs.

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Yea all true but this is rare. the piont I was trying to make is that the closer she get to ovulation the less likely she is to reabsorbe. So if she is going to drop, u may as well do all you can to ensure that it is a viable clutch. Otherwise its all just a waist if you are going to rely on retaind sperm

Agreed. I would throw the Pied or Hypo Spider in with her.

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Originally Posted by Jt balls

Yea all true but this is rare. the piont I was trying to make is that the closer she get to ovulation the less likely she is to reabsorbe. So if she is going to drop, u may as well do all you can to ensure that it is a viable clutch. Otherwise its all just a waist if you are going to rely on retaind sperm

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Totally! But it sounds like she's kind of a project snake for the OP, I can see how he wouldn't want to throw another male in with her. To be honest, if she were a visual morph, I'd be all like, go for it! As a het that he wants a visual male for, I would lean toward letting the chips fall where they may this year and sticking with original plans.

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Originally Posted by Viol8r

Agreed. I would throw the Pied or Hypo Spider in with her.

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I have considered this earlier when I started pairing my stock and still had no visual Caramel Albino male to pair with her. However I ruled out the Hypo Spider male due to the spider and caramel genes both having hereditary issues .... The pied male, well that's still an option I just don't really wanna get stuck with a clutch that I'm going to have a hard time getting rid of.

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Originally Posted by T_Sauer

I have considered this earlier when I started pairing my stock and still had no visual Caramel Albino male to pair with her. However I ruled out the Hypo Spider male due to the spider and caramel genes both having hereditary issues .... The pied male, well that's still an option I just don't really wanna get stuck with a clutch that I'm going to have a hard time getting rid of.

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Pieds sell though. Even het pieds sell fairly easy cause almost everyone wants one...

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Originally Posted by Viol8r

Pieds sell though. Even het pieds sell fairly easy cause almost everyone wants one...

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I may actually throw the pied male in with her .... I got her from a pet shop and while they say she is a Het. Caramel Albino I am skeptical as she has markers on her underside that I think resemble the train track markers that I have seen many ppl post about Het. Pieds having .... Or do many snakes have those tracks and a lot of ppl just reference that if the pied gene was in the pairing that the ones with those markers are more than likely the ones that got the gene?

If you are using her for a special project it would be best not to pair her at all this season. On the slim chance of retained sperm after laying a clutch last season is still present, you would just funk it all up again by pairing her and leaving the chance of retained sperm again even if she does lay a clutch this season.

If you want "A" clutch pair her. If you want "THE" clutch wait ;)

She's not for a specific project, it's one of those "girlfriend went to the pet shop alone and came home with a Het. Caramel Albino because she looked up caramel albino on world of ball pythons and loved the look of them" situations. .... So, if I do decide to pair the pied with her, and she gives me a clutch and the successfully go full term. How sure could I be that the clutch would be Het. Pied being that I am suspicious of retained sperm due to the size of her follicles already after not yet being paired?? Last thing I want to do is sell someone a "Het. Pied" and then that not be the case because of the retained sperm that may be present .... I would ofcourse make it right with them, but at the same time that is going to be someone waiting for 2 to 3 years for their Het. Pied to reach maturity only for it to not prove out .... I know such an event would frustrate me ..

Just a thought....

What genes do the previous owner work with?

If he paired her then he, also, must have had this discussion.

If he had any male visual or het caramels he may very well have chosen that as a project.

Throwing any male of yours in with her might actually be counter productive.

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Originally Posted by dr del

Just a thought....

What genes do the previous owner work with?

If he paired her then he, also, must have had this discussion.

If he had any male visual or het caramels he may very well have chosen that as a project.

Throwing any male of yours in with her might actually be counter productive.

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That Unfortunatly I am not aware of and the shop has since closed. But I do know a breeder that is friends with the guy who owned the shop, and I am pretty sure that the shop got the female from a breeder that they dealt with on a regular so I could probably find out without to much hassle

If bred to your pied they would be 50% het. I don't know the percentages on retained sperm though.

caramel genes both having hereditary issues

What is the issue with caramels ?

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Originally Posted by Paul's Pieds

caramel genes both having hereditary issues

What is the issue with caramels ?

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kinks

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Originally Posted by T_Sauer

She's not for a specific project, it's one of those "girlfriend went to the pet shop alone and came home with a Het. Caramel Albino because she looked up caramel albino on world of ball pythons and loved the look of them" situations. .... So, if I do decide to pair the pied with her, and she gives me a clutch and the successfully go full term. How sure could I be that the clutch would be Het. Pied being that I am suspicious of retained sperm due to the size of her follicles already after not yet being paired?? Last thing I want to do is sell someone a "Het. Pied" and then that not be the case because of the retained sperm that may be present .... I would ofcourse make it right with them, but at the same time that is going to be someone waiting for 2 to 3 years for their Het. Pied to reach maturity only for it to not prove out .... I know such an event would frustrate me ..

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The only way you would know for sure you produced 100% Hets is to pair a virgin, or pair a proven female to a male with a gene she has not been paired to before.

ie.... I have a 0.1 Super Pastel that laid eggs to a 1.0 Sugar Fire last season. She was paired to a 1.0 Enchi Pied this season. Anything that has Enchi is surely a 100% Het Pied as she has never been paired with an Enchi in the past. Anything she throws that does not have Enchi I would consider a possible Het. I would avoid selling any non-Enchis as 100% Hets. It's just not prudent business to sell them as 100% Hets. Even true 100% Hets may not produce a visual for several years. I'd rather sell a 0.1 Pastel from the clutch as a PH than a 100% Het and give the buyer a "bonus", or possibly hold her back to prove her out myself.

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

The only way you would know for sure you produced 100% Hets is to pair a virgin, or pair a proven female to a male with a gene she has not been paired to before.

ie.... I have a 0.1 Super Pastel that laid eggs to a 1.0 Sugar Fire last season. She was paired to a 1.0 Enchi Pied this season. Anything that has Enchi is surely a 100% Het Pied as she has never been paired with an Enchi in the past. Anything she throws that does not have Enchi I would consider a possible Het. I would avoid selling any non-Enchis as 100% Hets. It's just not prudent business to sell them as 100% Hets. Even true 100% Hets may not produce a visual for several years. I'd rather sell a 0.1 Pastel from the clutch as a PH than a 100% Het and give the buyer a "bonus", or possibly hold her back to prove her out myself.

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That is how I was thinking I would go about it. I would fill the interested party in on the entire situation. I would probably just sell them off at prices of normals. .... as I said earlier in the post, This is not a certain project that I am working with so I really didn't plan on having anything from her this year anyways. Worst case scenario is I sell them off as normals the two snakes paid for their own food for a year :rofl: ... And as you said, if they prove out then I made someone really happy with a great deal. I am not an established breeder but one day would like to be, so I definitely don't want to get a questionable reputation started before I even get a chance to get my name out there.