Question

In the snake world, does it matter if the two im trying to mate are siblings..??i know it's late but a week ago i separated them and started to lower temps at night to 70 degrees, before i put the male back in the female tank i plan to wash him a lil to remove any scent his sister remembers from him and hope they start making me money cuz times is hard..

I'am not trying to be rude, however if you only want to breed them to make money you may want to try something else. What type of morp bp's are they? There is a lot more to breeding them. As there are several things you need to research. Again I'am not trying to be rude or tell you you will fail. However if money is your only motivation it will not work. I've seen the pictures of your bp's they are nice normals. However their is not much of a market for them. If you were to breed them. Just do some research on the subject and you may see things differently.

I second the research. A pair of normals (even if they are hets) arent going to be making you money in the long run. Most people who breed have a goal to break even.

Also, PLEASE get them off the gravel :(

Hi,

70 is too low - try and keep it at 80f if you can as a minimum.

Breeding siblings is always slightly riskier than normal - if any genetic problems show up in the clutch then it shouldn't be repeated essentially.

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Originally Posted by Tigerhawk

I'am not trying to be rude, however if you only want to breed them to make money you may want to try something else. What type of morp bp's are they? There is a lot more to breeding them. As there are several things you need to research. Again I'am not trying to be rude or tell you you will fail. However if money is your only motivation it will not work. I've seen the pictures of your bp's they are nice normals. However their is not much of a market for them. If you were to breed them. Just do some research on the subject and you may see things differently.

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I second this, you should NEVER breed any animal just for the money. That's not fair to the animals you stand to produce. There is so much more breeding, you'll need and incubator, incubation medium, food for the adults and the babies, a rack for the babies. There is a huge investment that goes in to breeding reptiles that you can't hope to make money your first time especially with normals.

Sent from my snake room

ya'll dont know what im going thru, this been a project of mine for years, to see what kinda morph i could eventually START out with that a pair of NORMS could produce if any..MONEY is not the key factor in me wanting to breed them, WE all gotta start from somewhere this post was just a question....

Normals will produce normals.

As for money if you are lucky $10/$15 for the males $20/$25 for the females IF they even sell and by the time they do you'll have spent more in food, and care and it will basically be a loss so you might want to rethink your plan if

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times is hard

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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

ya'll dont know what im going thru, this been a project of mine for years, to see what kinda morph i could eventually START out with that a pair of NORMS could produce if any..MONEY is not the key factor in me wanting to breed them, WE all gotta start from somewhere this post was just a question....

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If money isnt the key factor maybe getting their care corrected before you worry about breeding?

No need to dogpile on the guy.

Heck, I started breeding by accident then repeated it to see if I could do it correctly.

We live, we learn, we change our opinions, sometimes we even change our plans.

Tolerate and teach - try not to preach.

I did not mean to back you into a corner. It just appears that from your posting, you have not thought things thru. You are in the right place to learn. However you may not be ready to breed them at this time. After looking at your pictures I have noticed a few things. No I'am not trying to be harsh. I'am just trying to tell you some things that will help you. To be successful with your project in the future. First as some one mentioned earlier change your substrate. Gravel is not the best thing for your bp's. You can use cypress or newspaper or paper towels to name a few. Also your humidity is to low I say this because your snakes are shedding in pieces. As they should shed in one piece. You should cover a large part of your tanks top. As this will help hold in humidy. Finally how much does your female weigh?

True, but my concern is more the basic care of his animals.

http://www.iherp.com/Gallery/88170/1...tvnaQY23gV.jpg

I think he cares about his pets. He just needs a little help with some basics. So maybe this posting of his,was a request for help.And he just worded it wrong I hope ? At any rate I hope he stays around the forum so we can be of some assistance. By the way to the op welcome to the forum.

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...psb2c9fe8d.jpg


understand the bedding, like i said times is hard and this is from nature, lol.. those sheds DON'T look like they shed in pieces, was just that 1 time you see in the picture.. don't have a scale to see how much she weighs, like admin stated we all started from the bottom, so that's what im trying to do in this crazy world, can't have too much equipment over here in my apartment, not even allowed to have pet here so im trying to deal with what i got until i can UPGRADE..when i come across some MOOLAH i'll look into purchasing a male PIEBALD, thats the morph i would LOVE soooo much..QUESTION number 2:: would there be ANY problems with MOM mating with SON.?? some real incest right there, lol...

I tried gravel when I first got one - you are not going to believe how much liquid urine and faeces you miss when trying to clean it - switch to newspaper for a couple of weeks and you will see what I mean.

Plus their scales won't get so scuffed and scruffy looking. :gj:

No I've seen other breeders breed the mother back to the son. When they are trying to get something out of a morph. However I have not done it myself. If you really want to get your project going. Get you a male piebald like you were saying. And find you a het piebald female and raise them up and breed them together. Then you will produce some Piebalds which have a greater value than normals. You can breed your normals as well, they are not worth a lot. However I always find homes for the ones I have. I really like Piebalds to. I have a male and two 100% het piebald females that I plan to breed in the future. The thing I like about Piebalds is no two of them are alike. And there are so many morphs that you can breed them into and work with. I can't get enough of Piebalds my piebald is my most favorite snake in my collection. By the way your bp's look good,you can tell they don't miss any meals.:)

thanks for the responses, will replace the gravel with newspaper during the day tomorrow, cuz right now is there dark part of the day..what im trying to see is will my normal female produce any pinstripes because from what i see she has a very long stripe on her normal pattern, i also want my beginners to contribute to any MORPH i can get..


http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...9a913743-1.jpg

Sorry, unless you are planning to breed her to a pinstripe you wont get any from that female. Pinstripe is a dominant gene, so they are either pins or they arent. They cant carry the gene and pass it on to their offspring without expressing it themselves.

I understand it's a DOMINANT GENE, there is always that "BUT" that comes into play, like BUT what if what made her was mated with a what it takes to make a successful pinstrip next time she mated..?? this world is full of BUTS and WHAT IFS.. just saying that's all...;)

If you mean youre going to breed her to a pinstripe gene male or if she was bred to a pinstripe male in the past and retained sperm, yes. ANYTHING else, no.

What made her and the stripe on her tail will not have anything to do with her producing pinstripes. Sorry!

NO DOUBT, always worth a TRY to see what happens..;);) would be surprised what COULD happen in the ANIMAL world..:):)

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

I understand it's a DOMINANT GENE, there is always that "BUT" that comes into play, like BUT what if what made her was mated with a what it takes to make a successful pinstrip next time she mated..?? this world is full of BUTS and WHAT IFS.. just saying that's all...;)

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Do you mean like hets? You would have to specifically breed her to a pinstripe to create pinstripes. The term dominant means it is what it is, even if one of her parents was a pinstripe.

Pinstripe x normal = 50% normals, 50% pinstripes statistically.

Yours would still just be a normal.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

NO DOUBT, always worth a TRY to see what happens..;);) would be surprised what COULD happen in the ANIMAL world..:):)

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Many surprising things have happened with ball pythons while the genetics were being slowly uncovered.

But why re-invent the wheel starting with a triangle if other people already have a good idea that has held true through many, many breedings. :P

What we call a pinstripe is a specific mutation of a specific gene at a precise location. You have a greater probability of spontaneously turning into a doughnut through random quantum fluctuations than getting a pinstripe by breeding two normals. :cool: not really but it sounded funny

WHY? Is all I have to say about that.:please: I give up.

Def needs to do some more research

i switched up and realized that this would be my virgin(first) time breeding so im gonna roll with a 100% het male, with my normal female and see what comes out..the next big thing i have to worry about s the cool down period to get the female in the mood to breed, thats my main problem right there, i live in a studio apartment so i can't switch a room to be the isolator cool down room, that's another point breaker in my quest to breed these snakes

Het Male x Normal = Possible hets which sell for the same price as normal.

Also BP do not have to be cooled down and if you do 76/80 is plenty enough.


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We never cool down ours

The topic just popped up, I read twice the whole, but I still understand nothing. Or what I understand is that: You want to breed your 1.1 normals together to maybe get pinstripe offsprings (and money for it to upgrade your collection), cause the female have an interesting patter what reminds you pinstripe? After to understand that maybe not works, you want to put your normal female with a hetero (for ?) male to see if coming out something (morph) from that pairing?
If is that, try to do a deeper research about genetics. When you'll understand, it's easy. I don't know if someone already posted the link, but.. http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Basic-Genetics

Don't need to cool them for. Many breeders have success without cycling, all year round.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

In the snake world, does it matter if the two im trying to mate are siblings..??

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To answer the original question, it doesn't matter if you breed ANY species siblings. Some species tend to have on average more negative traits than others, human being the most famous. On average humans have a lot of screwed up genes, so it's not the greatest idea to be hooking up with family statistically. However ball pythons do not appear to have too many negative traits on average, so it is generally accepted as fine.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

this been a project of mine for years, to see what kinda morph i could eventually START out with that a pair of NORMS could produce if any

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

.what im trying to see is will my normal female produce any pinstripes because from what i see she has a very long stripe on her normal pattern, i also want my beginners to contribute to any MORPH i can get..

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

I understand it's a DOMINANT GENE, there is always that "BUT" that comes into play, like BUT what if what made her was mated with a what it takes to make a successful pinstrip next time she mated..?? this world is full of BUTS and WHAT IFS.. just saying that's all...;)

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

NO DOUBT, always worth a TRY to see what happens..;);) would be surprised what COULD happen in the ANIMAL world..:):)

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

i switched up and realized that this would be my virgin(first) time breeding so im gonna roll with a 100% het male, with my normal female and see what comes out..

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You seem to have misunderstanding of genetics and also the frequency of mutation. I would spend way too much time commenting on all of those, so all I will say is:

Please read this:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Basic-Genetics
and do research on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation_rate

Get the book the complete ball python by kevin mccurley

Do i lay the newspaper down, or do i cut it up and bunch it together.?

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

Do i lay the newspaper down, or do i cut it up and bunch it together.?

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Just lay it down flat, and use a couple of sheets because they will flood the place with pee so they will need a couple layers to soak it up.

Just lay it down

I use aspen bedding

new setup, i i'm trying to tell ya'll she has something(GENE) in her, might be some kinda het..
http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...psa10799e0.jpghttp://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...psc0436261.jpghttp://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...ps321b28a4.jpg

BOTH OF THEM..

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...ps114fb2c4.jpghttp://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...psb389136d.jpghttp://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...ps68ce6ac7.jpg

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

new setup, i i'm trying to tell ya'll she has something(GENE) in her, might be some kinda het..

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Then by all means try and prove it out. They're your snakes. Just keep in mind that normal ball pythons show a huge range of color and pattern - many of which are not genetic.

The only thing we're saying (with 100% confidence) is that she does not have Pinstripe or any other currently known visual dominant or incomplete dominant gene. Ball python genetics simply don't work that way.

Please take the time to go through OWAL's links and learn for yourself. Once you have a basic understanding, the rest is straightforward.

Looks normal to me

do you have hides in the enclosure? sorry I just haven't seen them in any of the pictures.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...ps321b28a4.jpg
http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...ps114fb2c4.jpg
http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...psb389136d.jpg
http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...ps68ce6ac7.jpg

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Not sure how I missed this before...

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Originally Posted by Ball Python (Python regius) Caresheet

CAUTION: Never use TAPE inside an enclosure. No matter how secure you think it is, there is a high risk that the snake will find a way to get stuck on it, causing injury or even death.

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Wow tape really

The Tank is also way to small for both of them. That tank is too small for one even. And in the one pic I saw soap bubbles???

The tape is a bad idea on a couple of fronts;

They will end up getting stuck on it eventually. You wouldn't believe the problems we have seen as a result. :(

It stops the snake going under the paper - that is actually quite a good hide for a BP as it touches them all over, is nice and dark, and is always the right size thanks to gravity. :)

The last one is actually why I like using it so much in my tubs. Plus of course it is cheap and easily replaceable.

Feeding Day




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIW31RAEIb4

I do think you need to start from step one and just get the basic needs of the snake care down. The book mentioned is prob the best it's also a iBook on your Ipad (paper book are for old people) but there is plenty of Internet info a you just have to find what is true ball python care or a care sheet just to sell more add ons from there stores.

That being said everyone here could be alittle help instead of condescending. We know you know more than us on this subject so us newbs have come here looking for answers from you pros . (something I missed here too)
after the petco flyer failed us and we found out the $200 "snake" aquarium we got was a bad idea for are snake, we came here so be helpful with your knolage not mean.

dont use soap on your snake it is fine for you your dog your cat you and most things with hair but no snakes
the news paper is gonna get all bunched up but that's cuz that's how they like it to hide no need to tape and the sticky is no good on scales
as for breeding I've got no experience in the matter (yet) but think your conditions aren't the best to make it happen but I don't know that's why I come here and read as much as I can

gday sir

Feeding Day




**link removed for language in the video**

Feeding Day




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFLvCvKzjeo






- - - Updated - - -

Feeding Day

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

In the snake world, does it matter if the two im trying to mate are siblings..??i know it's late but a week ago i separated them and started to lower temps at night to 70 degrees, before i put the male back in the female tank i plan to wash him a lil to remove any scent his sister remembers from him and hope they start making me money cuz times is hard..

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

ya'll dont know what im going thru, this been a project of mine for years, to see what kinda morph i could eventually START out with that a pair of NORMS could produce if any..MONEY is not the key factor in me wanting to breed them, WE all gotta start from somewhere this post was just a question....

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If you want help then cool, that's what we are here for.
If your going to be a hypocrite and blow smoke up my hind end, please stop.

That being said.
Remove the tape out of the enclosure, there is no reason to tape the paper down.
Keep temperatures in the correct range.
Don't know if this is the first time you are pairing or if you are asking here now because she hasn't bred for you in the past?
She may not go for you ever if she isn't comfortable.
Fix all the husbandry issues and your luck might improve.

On your girl, normal as all I can see and even if on the slightest chance there is a drop of a one in a million chance that there is something in her to unlock I still wouldn't be breeding her to a normal male. Not worth it from a monetary stand point.
If you want to produce pinstripes, save up some cash and go buy a male, males are cheap then you can start off with a chance of producing a morph.

so with what ya'll know about different morphs markings on the underbelly, tell me what yall think she look like she's having when i get this breeding thing together..

what are you talking about, aint blow smoke up anybodies.....my snakes been good since i bought them just wanted to know about the breeding part not the way i set MY tank up..It's easy for someone that has money to tell a person without money how to take care of their snake, if i had the money i woulda been done it..pinstripe ain't the type morph i want just was saying how it looks like she would produce one, but what does an all white belly mean in the het marker book..??

Just look up the " is this a morph" section on this site. There is a ton of variation on normal ball pythons. Nobody can tell you for sure 100% that your Snake isnt carrying some hidden Gene but from all the picture you have put up your snakes look like normal ball pythons.