new ball python : malnourished

Hey everyone I think I got in way over my head
this is my first snake . He's an albino pinstripe and he's is very skinny . I wasn't going to get him considering the condition and price he was in but knowing if I left him he wouldnt make it because the owner is away at college and his parents want nothing to do with it ( told me themselves ) I decided to take the chance. He's very skinny I got him yesterday and today after school I bought a mice I think adult , not sure and dropped him in the tub . Not a view of him interested so after 15 mins I took the mice out . My temp is on the 71 on the cool side and 89 on the warm side. Humidity is at 68% because hes in shed and still has some on his head to mid body. I do have a thermo stat set at 90. I'm going to try later at night and if not I'll buy smaller mice tomorrow. He's very wrinkly as of now. Also he did pee while I grabbed him because he was leaving the tub. If that matters. Any help would be appreciated. Idk his age but hes about 2 feet long

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...8/imag1550.jpg

Don't be worried just yet... Let it settle in for a few days.. Don't handle him. Pick a day next week and pick up a rat smaller or the same size as the widest part of his body. Try feeding him again and hopefully he will take it. If not.. Don't handle him just yet.. Wait another week and try again. If still nothing I'd try an African soft fur (I heard they are like the fillet mignon to snakes) if he still doesn't eat I would just not handle him until he does.. I had a snake go 8 months without eating..

If he is extremely under weight, then assist feeding might be the next step, but that is the absolute last resort. I would weigh him and put a picture up so we can see just how malnourished he is.

thanks and he's also very weak. he cant support his own head for a long period of time.http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...554_661870.jpg

his water gets pretty cold so how often should i change his water bowl. i usually heat up water and mix with regular water till its not cold and not warm

Did the parents tell you how long it's been since he ate last? Do you know when the owner went to school?

I change the water out every day or every other day. I get it straight from the tap.. I don't think the temp really matters. I would just make sure it's not hot..

He does look really underweight. Like I said above, let him settle in his new home for a few days. Don't handle him until he eats. I'm no expert but I've had a couple of problem eaters and what seems to really work for me is not handling the snake until they eat. Try feeding him again on Monday. I would try to figure out what his previous owner was feeding him and try one of those.. I'd say a pinkie rat in my opinion.. Get a pair of tongs and dangle it in from of him for a minute or two, if nothing then tap his nose with the pinkie a few times and see what he does.. I have a hatchling that if I just throw the rat in her tub she won't eat it but the second I tease her with it she grabs it. If nothing happens wait another week and try again. If still nothing I would look into taking him to a vet and see if they can assist feed him or maybe force feed him.

He has the potential of being such a beautiful snake, just have patience with him, he'll come around.

Poor little guy...it makes me happy that you decided to give him s home you seem to be off to a good start as for eating just give him s bit as stated above and good luck with your new friend :) I hope too see some pics when you get him eating and some weight on the poor guy best of luck

Just a thought, but you may want to try and get him to eat frozen/thawed or pre-killed prey. If he's too weak to hold his head up for long I don't imagine he'd do very well with a struggling mouse or rat. Do you know what they were feeding him before you got him?

Glad you got him and best of luck getting him healthy again!

The guy said he was feeding him mouse hoppers. Live or frozen idk yet but I'll get in contact and ask him . I'll also ask him when was the last time he feed him and updated him

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And update this thread I mean

Also I have a live hooper on me right now and he won't eat so what should I do with him

Poor little lamb. Take things slow with him, in his condition he will need small meals frequently, rather than larger ones. You heart wants to stuff him and help him gain weight fast, but you should not do that. Feed him a hopper mouse or rat, whatever he will take every 5 days if he'll eat them. Don't fuss at him over the whole mouse/rat debate, just get him eating if you can. Give him a small, warm, clean enclosure with a tight hide and fresh water and let him relax for a day or so. His poor weakened system has already been through a lot, and taking it too far too fast will only make things worse.

try not to disturb him any more than is absolutely necessary, as hard as that is to do, he'll be better for it. Keep his area a little on the dim/dark side and as quiet as you can. If you have access to f/t feeders you can try those, otherwise try live. But remember small live prey, he's too weak to take on a properly sized meal right now, so going small and feeding more often is what he needs to begin to recover. You can worry about prey size in a few months once he's gained some size and strength back. I've dealt with a number of badly malnourished snakes myself, most of them came around given time and care, but I've lost two that were simply too far gone when I got them. So do your best, but keep it in the back of your mind there could be something wrong inside from the neglect that you cannot see.

If he refuses food again, wait at least 2 days before trying again. Forcing food on him over and over and over is only going to stress his already weak body and may cause him to take even longer to get feeding. If he seems to be having a hard time, or is not interested in hopper mice/rats, try to get your hands on a crawler rat. Hoppers get that name for a reason, and may be a little too crazy for him. You won't know until you try. If he seems interested but too weak/slow to hit a hopper, you can always p/k the hopper and then offer it. A hard thump to the back of the head, or a quick cervical dislocation is your best option if that becomes necessary.

Please let us know how he does.

Gale

Thank you im going to look for frozen hoppers over the weekend and feed Monday or Sunday

Were me....I would thunk that hopper (strong flick to the back of the head should kill it instantly) and leave it in with the snake overnight. Stick its head just outside the snake's hide.

Here is what I would do for optimal result if you have not done so already

6 quarts tub, aspen bedding to allow the animal to burrow, 6 inches plastic flower pot saucer, 76/88 for temps, wait a week, NO HANDLING, offer a LIVE hopper mouse for starter, open the tub, drop the mouse, close the tub and move away, remove the prey if not eaten after 15 min

A lot of good advice here.. Please keep us up to date..

Looks like it's having a bad shed. How's the humidity?

Should I do that now? Or after a couple of days .
He is in a tub setup
humidity is at 69%
should I kill the mouse and leave him in front of him

The shed was good from tail to mid body only the head has a large piece that doesn't want to come off

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Originally Posted by Memo

The shed was good from tail to mid body only the head has a large piece that doesn't want to come off

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I will be watching this thread. As a snake owner, I have one snake who is a notoriously picky eater. She ate a f/t for me 2 days after I got her, then refused to eat for a like 3 weeks. She was actually losing weight and she was just beyond a hatchling size when I got her, so eating was crucial for her. Eventually, I tried a live mouse, and she ate it no problem. Most snake owners end up going through a time when their snake decides to be picky eaters. This can be caused by anything; e.g., too cold, too hot, too wet, too dry, too windy, not windy enough, or anything. One of my snakes was bitten by the live mouse I was feeding to it, and didn't eat for 2 weeks. So just get your husbandry dialed in and he may come around. I do agree with feeding him a f/t rat pup, but when you go to the store, you may want to buy a f/t rat pup, as well as a live one. The frozen one can always be put back in the freezer, and the longer the rat pup lives, the weaker it'll get (without it's mother's milk that is). That's a little inhumane, but if the rat is weak and unable to fight back a lot, then your snake may be more willing to try to eat it.

Humidity ok. I would say to soak him and try to remove the shed but that may stress him more right now.

Isn't a rat pup too big for him?
I was thinking a rat furry or a mouse hopper

Unless I misunderstood you said that you just took him in, so do not worry just yet. A lot of snakes will refuse a feeding when in new surroundings, also when my girl is in shed she refuses to eat as well (do not know yet about my boy) Just keep trying what your doing, and I agree with the other posters, try feeding frozen. Luckily for this little guy he has someone that truly cares looking after him. Keep it up and keep us posted.

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Originally Posted by Memo

Isn't a rat pup too big for him?
I was thinking a rat furry or a mouse hopper

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Lots of great advice here. None of it sounds wrong.

However, I lean towards Angellady2's advice of starting small, and just getting something in that stomach, and often.

I recommend following Debs advice as well and getting those temps right as soon as possible.

Maybe try a short soak to help get the stuck shed off of his head. It will help rehydrate him a little too. I'm so glad that you saved this guy. He's going to be a beautiful boy!

I have 3 snakes not eating right now also so I'll be watching this post!

My snake, still a baby, didn't eat for almost 2 months. I understand the anxiety. Correct husbandry, make sure you have 2 hides, correct humidity, correct temps, and fresh water. Day/night cycles, some definition in lighting. No handling until it eats. This snake is very underweight and I am concerned. If it continues to not eat I would contact a reptile veterinarian or a breeder to seek advice and consider assist feeding, with professional help.

update: she has started to become more active. she has been looking around her enclosure for the past 2 hours and no sign of stopping. one downside is i tnink she is constipated. this is abiut to get wierd so be prepared lol. she tried pooping ? and only water came out. she gets real fat at the lower end of the tail. and when she raises her tail there appears to be a white dot. sort of like a pimple. i was just wondering if this was normal . im going out to buy a rat furry today and will feed later today in prayers of him taking it. and will update later today

I really like Deborahs advice. I think a live mouse hopper is in order.

I hope she eats for you today! It sounds like she is trying to pass a urate. Dehydration can cause that.

Personally, if it was my snake and she doesn't eat on her own today I'd assist feed her a thawed/warmed mouse pink tonight, wait three days and offer a live hopper mouse again, if she doesn't eat again, assist feed again. Repeat until she eats on her own. I'd actually tube feed if I took in a snake in her condition. When done right it's not as stressful as assist or force feeding and they don't have to expend the energy swallowing prey. But that is something a vet or experienced keeper can help with.

Im probably to inexperienced to assist feed her and i havent found decnet vet where i live. Hopefully she takes her meal tonight

I Researched assist feeding and realized it differed from force feeding and it looks like i might be able to handle it. I will try this Tonight and post the results

She may not be constipated. She may have been musking if she felt threatened. I have one snake that does that on occasion. If she is constipated, the soak in warm water will help with that.


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I tried feeding him a mice hopper yesterday and he didn't seem interested so I gave up after 30 mins and took the mouse out. Later that day I pre killed the mouse and.left him in his cage overnight and nothing. My scale should come in today so I will post his weight later today

hope this snake's health takes a turn for the better

He weighs 53.8 grams and about 1.5 ft long

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Originally Posted by Memo

He weighs 53.8 grams and about 1.5 ft long

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Hate to worry you, but I showed my reptile manager this and she said it looks like he has an inclusion near his tail :/ hoping he recovers and eats

0.2 Normal

I'm having trouble finding out what's inclusion. If anyone can enlighten me please

This poor baby needs to be taken to a vet, or an experienced breeder. Definitely at the point where assist feeding/tube feeding is necessary. Also needs an increase in humidity, s/he's dehydrated by the looks of the photos. I don't get how someone can let an animal get so malnourished... an albino pinstripe is $$$, too. Wonder what his story is. It's possible he was a problem feeder for someone, who passed him onto someone inexperienced for cheap, that person didn't know and didn't care, and now here you are.

Does anyone know of any vets in the SoCal area or any breeders that are willing to help me out?
the guy I bought him from had experience with other snakes that were more costly than this one so idk maybe he was just a problem feeder. Can anyone guesstimate his age? I met a local rat breeder that told me to not worry about assist feeding for a month or so.

Generally speaking, most babies hatch out weighing more than he does now. With his unknown history (that I assume isn't very great), I'd be wanting to get him to eat as soon as realistically possible. It's unknown how many meals he's eaten in his entire life, which is why I would recommend a vet check up, it couldn't hurt and he's in bad enough shape to really need one. If you're in Cali, then I'm sure you have some herp vets local. Hopefully someone from the area can recommend one. You want to make sure everything's okay on the inside, and nothings hiding in there.

Holy smokes, that weight is frightful. You're on the internet, get to searching for a vet! Any good breeders or keepers shop number you can find in the area would be able to give you a vet number or help directly. Or give a zip code and research can be done... Not much time to waste...

Watch a video on how to assist feed and it might be worth a shot.


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If it's too dehydrated or weak assist feeding without professional help could be dangerous for the snake. Please update us?

Hope you've had some success getting food in him. It's been a week since your original post. There is also a sticky post in the bp husbandry forum on assist feeding. I highly recommend you try it before more time passes looking for a vet. Honestly, unless the vet can tube feed him or has a pinky pump, I'm not sure the stress of a vet trip is worth it. Get some frozen mouse pinks and thaw one in warm water for 10 min, make sure its warm all the way through, and try assist feeging. I use mouse pinks cause they are super small and easy for them to swallow and easy for you to keep in the snakes mouth. Bigger prey can be spit out easily and takes more effort to swallow.

Here's what I'd do. First I'd soak him in luke warm water for a bit, but only enough to cover the lower 1/4th of his body. That way he can soak without having to swim. Then I'd place him back in his enclosure. Now I'm going to assume that you have him in either a tank or some sort of cage. If he's in a tank, cover most of the sides so he isn't stressed by the outside world. I would put him on some sort of bedding, but that's just my preference. Make sure he has a hide on the hot spot where he can hide, but it's nice and tight. Crank temps up to about 88-89 degrees on the hot side and leave him be for a few days. Then I'd offer him a mouse, small enough for him to eat with no problem, but large enough that its movement may catch his attention. Now if you're going to assist feed him, I, too would give him a small meal that is easier to push down.Even though it'd be a small meal, it's better than nothing.

Pics of your setup would greatly help us to see if everything is on point.

PS: don't worry about the drinking water being too cold, as long as he's not sitting in it for extended periods of time, you're fine.

Alright guys so I left a mouse furry (i think? A little bigger than a pinkie) over night and instead of him eating it, they cuddled all night lol. I moved him from a 34qt to a shoe box size tub with a hide on the hotspot at 90F. I have only Messed with him when I was weighing him and to change out the water. The bedding is moist paper towels to help out with the shed. I'm going to wait another week and if he doesn't eat I will try to assist feed.
I have a live furry with him and I'm not sure if I should leave him in there with the snake.any opinions?

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Originally Posted by Memo

Alright guys so I left a mouse furry (i think? A little bigger than a pinkie) over night and instead of him eating it, they cuddled all night lol. I moved him from a 34qt to a shoe box size tub with a hide on the hotspot at 90F. I have only Messed with him when I was weighing him and to change out the water. The bedding is moist paper towels to help out with the shed. I'm going to wait another week and if he doesn't eat I will try to assist feed.
I have a live furry with him and I'm not sure if I should leave him in there with the snake.any opinions?

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If you offer a prey too small and fuzzy are it will not be recognize as a prey you need to offer a hopper.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Memo

I'm going to wait another week and if he doesn't eat I will try to assist feed.
I have a live furry with him and I'm not sure if I should leave him in there with the snake.any opinions?

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The housing change will help but I worry that you don't have a week to wait. I'd kill that fuzzy and wet it in warm water and assist feed it now.