BP won't eat... or has a disorder

BP wont eat. We've tried in feeding bucket and cage. She didn't even act like she saw the rat. We've tried three different rats at different times and nothing. It's like she can't see them. She used to eat fine but last time she ate was over 3 months ago.

Her cage is 12hr heat lamp + uv lamp, and 12hr off. Humidity is 75ish. Heat around 85f. She's moving around reaching out of tank like she's looking for food, an indicator we've used before to feed her. Completely oblivious to all food.

Vet said to keep trying every week. . It's been three weeks since. We even bought one of those African soft haired rats or whatever, and nothing. .

Thoughts? Besides giving it away so that i can reclaim some space in my living room?

http://i.imgur.com/7lXTG27.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7B9AeF0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/45aTbwq.jpg

Looks like a pretty healthy build on that snake. I have animals that routinely go 4-6 months without feeding..

I remember the days I used to worry when my snakes go off feed. Lol

I have snakes that will go 5-6 months without eating and then pick up again on it like it never happened. Who can understand it! Don't worry about it. Give her a break. Only try once a week.

Also, when you say her heat is 12 hours on and 12 off. You do have some sort of heating 24 hours though, right?

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Originally Posted by SnowBP

I remember the days I used to worry when my snakes go off feed. Lol

I have snakes that will go 5-6 months without eating and then pick up again on it like it never happened. Who can understand it! Don't worry about it. Give her a break. Only try once a week.

Also, when you say her heat is 12 hours on and 12 off. You do have some sort of heating 24 hours though, right?

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Yes, there is a heating pad under one of hides

We left the rat in her cage overnight because this rat is sooooo passive.. woke up to this:

http://i.imgur.com/kN21ugS.jpg

..... they are now best friends.

You may want to be careful leaving a live feeder in overnight with your snake. That could turn our really badly for your animal. I've seen snakes badly injured or killed by caged rodents. Three weeks without eating is no big deal especially for a BP. Like others have said they can go months without any issues. As long as your husbandry is dialed in and it's not losing significant weight or showing other signs of illness I wouldn't worry at all. When my snakes go off feed I usually only offer food every 10-14 days until they start eating normally again. Best wishes.

Be glad that's all you woke up to.
Fix your husbandry first.
There is no need to feed in a separate container either.
What are you using to regulate the UTH?
UV lighting is not needed.
How and where are you getting the 85 degree reading and what are you using to measure that reading?

AND for the love of your not yet chewed on snake please never leave a live rat in overnight.

my snake is doing the exact same thing. She ate a live mouse on sunday, and it was rough. She got bit and scratched and I thought to myself, "She's probably afraid of mice now. I'll get a rat pup since i want her eating those anyway." I put the rat pup in the tank and it's like it's not even there. She's still trying to get out of the tank looking for food and stuff. If she doesnt eat it, looks like I'm going to be trying to keep a rat pup, a mouse, another snake, and a cat as pets -____- i hate mice, i love rats.

Try a live mouse. They smell a lot different and some balls just prefer them. I have one ball that ignores rats but eats mice as soon as it's dropped in the tank.

You also might try cleaning the habitat thoroughly to maximize intensity of the prey smell. (There's a sticky somewhere about feeding habits that talks about how they prefer ambushing in a clean burrow).


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NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!!! leave a live mouse or rat unattended in a snake cage. Did I say NEVER NEVER enough. Sorry but you could have a dead snake doing that. I have seen horror pics and stories.

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Originally Posted by blk02ssmonte

NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!!! leave a live mouse or rat unattended in a snake cage. Did I say NEVER NEVER enough. Sorry but you could have a dead snake doing that. I have seen horror pics and stories.

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AMEN!!!'

When I was new, I did it and got lucky!

I left the rat in with the snake for a few days. Thought it was cute. The rat built his own little home in the aspen and stored his food there.
The snake stayed on the other side like she was afraid.

Then when I happened to be in the room watching, the rat attacked my snake! It started chewing on her cloaca, literally reaming her a new one. The snake moved some but the rat had a death grip.

Needless to say I got that rat OUT OF THERE PRONTO.

That was when I decided to try out fresh kill.

Failure

This all happened before I knew about this forum. I learned the hard way at my snake's expense.
Fortunately she healed fast with neosporin.

Now I NEVER leave her unattended with a rat.

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Originally Posted by Fireproof

You also might try cleaning the habitat thoroughly to maximize intensity of the prey smell. (There's a sticky somewhere about feeding habits that talks about how they prefer ambushing in a clean burrow).

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This is it (and it works for me every time):
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...n-eating-again

It doesn't say that you have a heat mat. Heat mats are very important for ball pythons. Heat lamps are a very poor way of heating up the enclosure of a bal. A heat mat (regulated by a thermostat) is a must. You can use a heat lamp along with it but it's not necessary. I'm assuming your snake isn't eating because the temps aren't right. There should be a hot spot of 90 degrees. Normally this would come from the heat pad. The lamps can help the ambient air temps get where they should be (and it sounds the air temps are good) but you need a spot for your BP to lay on that is 90 degrees


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Originally Posted by Ballpythoncrazy

It doesn't say that you have a heat mat. Heat mats are very important for ball pythons. Heat lamps are a very poor way of heating up the enclosure of a bal. A heat mat (regulated by a thermostat) is a must. You can use a heat lamp along with it but it's not necessary. I'm assuming your snake isn't eating because the temps aren't right. There should be a hot spot of 90 degrees. Normally this would come from the heat pad. The lamps can help the ambient air temps get where they should be (and it sounds the air temps are good) but you need a spot for your BP to lay on that is 90 degrees


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Not necessarily true. They don't absolutely need belly heat for digestion. What they need is access to appropriate temperatures for digestion. How someone provides those temperatures is up to them. Commonly this is done with heat mats/heat tape and a thermostat, but it is certainly not the only way.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Not necessarily true. They don't absolutely need belly heat for digestion. What they need is access to appropriate temperatures for digestion. How someone provides those temperatures is up to them. Commonly this is done with heat mats/heat tape and a thermostat, but it is certainly not the only way.

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Nice post again Eric! There are many ways to provide appropriate conditions for these animals.

The O/P needs to keep in mind that this is winter, at least in North America.

I've had our royal go 7 and 6 months without eating with no issues.

This is very COMMON amongst this species of snake.

In general boas and pythons are designed by nature to go long periods without food. That snake looks fine and continued efforts to feed at this time of year will do you no good. Once you get the flavor of a royal, waiting it out is no problem. We are doing it here going on 3 months. The snake is totally fine!

I didn't see a hide in the tank but I've not read every post is this the normal cage?

Don't ever leave a live ANYTHING in with your snake over night again.

Passive rats change on a dime when they become dehydrated, hungry or bored.

A disinterested, non threatening snake is an easy chew toy for a rat.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Not necessarily true. They don't absolutely need belly heat for digestion. What they need is access to appropriate temperatures for digestion. How someone provides those temperatures is up to them. Commonly this is done with heat mats/heat tape and a thermostat, but it is certainly not the only way.

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Sorry, I didn't say they needed belly heat to digest their food. I said that they need a basking spot of 90 degrees, which this person isn't providing. Don't twist my words.


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Originally Posted by Ballpythoncrazy

Sorry, I didn't say they needed belly heat to digest their food. I said that they need a basking spot of 90 degrees, which this person isn't providing. Don't twist my words.

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Still not correct.
They don't "bask either".
If proper temperatures are provided they will do just fine.
Many people including some of our nations largest breeders heat the whole room and not even to 90 degrees.
Your words posted earlier were not twisted, they were attempted to be corrected.

Hi all -

Ok fine - so we won't leave a rat in there, regardless of how nice it is again. Oops.

Just a little info of the snakes habitat: there are two lamps, on the left is a heating which heats up a hot spot (with a water dish below it) to ~90F. On the right side is a UVA/UVB as recommended by a local vet, with another water dish below it.. She says there's debate whether or not snakes need UVA/UVB and that there's no solid proof either way... but she feels that snakes get it when in natural habitats and other reptiles do, so it makes sense that snakes would too. Only the two lights are on a 12hr cycle. We use a humidifier with a makeshift attachment to direct humidity to her cage to keep it around 70-80%. The top of the cage is covered with plexiglass with drilled holes to help maintain heat and humidity. We use distilled water for humidifier and spring water for water dishes. We clean/disinfect/rinse her cage every couple of weeks and replace the ground with fresh wood chips.

In the middle of the aquarium are two hides. The left hide contains a heating mat under it. The right one does not (and is cold). She must know the difference because sometimes she's in the left, and sometimes in the right. There's also some drift wood that she gets on from time-to-time.

When the lights go off, she comes out from her hide and sits on top of her hides, or roams around like she's looking for food... she does the "reaching" to the top of her cage... which in the past indicated that she's hungry - and when we tried to feed her, she'd eat. This time she doesn't.

Also, how can snakes know it's winter time if their cage never drops below 70 with heating lamps off? She can't see outside or feel the cold air.. it's basically summertime in her own little ecosystem.

Also, at night, sometimes she is under her hide with her head at the end of the hide.. she isn't balled up.. it looks like she's in striking mode, waiting to ambush food...

dumb snake. :tears:

UV lights would possible be helpful on snakes that are active during the day time cycle.
I highly doubt it will do any good for a nocturnal animal that usually lives in rodent burrows.
I could be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Half Crazed

Also, how can snakes know it's winter time if their cage never drops below 70 with heating lamps off? She can't see outside or feel the cold air.. it's basically summertime in her own little ecosystem.

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Why do ball pythons need to think it's winter?

In their natural range, the low air temperatures don't typically drop below the mid-upper 70s. The average annual temperature is in the low 80s. In comparison, Phoenix, AZ (which we typically think of as a hot desert), the average annual temperature is in the low 70s. It's a very consistent climate that they come from, which is why we try to recreate one in their captive environments. :)

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Originally Posted by Half Crazed

Also, at night, sometimes she is under her hide with her head at the end of the hide.. she isn't balled up.. it looks like she's in striking mode, waiting to ambush food...

dumb snake. :tears:

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:rolleyes: Not dumb snake. Ball python doing what it does best. These are nocturnal ambush predators. A little tip I've learned is to feed them at night. I typically get a better feeding response when I play into what mother nature has been doing for far longer than I have been doing.

So how long should i wait after lights go off and she comes out and roams around before feeding?

Also, she doesn't like to curl up under the hide with the heating pad. She goes under the cold one.

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Originally Posted by Half Crazed

So how long should i wait after lights go off and she comes out and roams around before feeding?

Also, she doesn't like to curl up under the hide with the heating pad. She goes under the cold one.

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Can't really give you an exact time. When you open their tub and their head is sticking out of their hide with their neck in that S-shape giving you "the look" it means they're ready for a meal. It's the behaviors that will give you an indication of their needs - not the numbers.

As far as the cool side vs warm side, don't fret. Just make sure the temperatures you're providing are on point (80-90 or so) and he will lay where he needs to. He knows how to control his temperature much better than you or I (as long as we allow him to do so by giving him access to the right temps).

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Originally Posted by Ballpythoncrazy

It doesn't say that you have a heat mat. Heat mats are very important for ball pythons. Heat lamps are a very poor way of heating up the enclosure of a bal. A heat mat (regulated by a thermostat) is a must. You can use a heat lamp along with it but it's not necessary. I'm assuming your snake isn't eating because the temps aren't right. There should be a hot spot of 90 degrees. Normally this would come from the heat pad. The lamps can help the ambient air temps get where they should be (and it sounds the air temps are good) but you need a spot for your BP to lay on that is 90 degrees

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Yes it does. OP stated in a later post. For convenience it's the next quote. No, a heat mat is not a must. I have 19 bp's using 0 uth. I heat the room.

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Originally Posted by Half Crazed

Yes, there is a heating pad under one of hides

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Half Crazed

Also, how can snakes know it's winter time if their cage never drops below 70 with heating lamps off? She can't see outside or feel the cold air.. it's basically summertime in her own little ecosystem.

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Maybe your summertime, but not theirs. They live pretty close to the equator and mid 70's are their winters.
You may also want to call around for a vet who knows about bp's instead of one who thinks all snakes are created equal and should all be treated the same...

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

UV lights would possible be helpful on snakes that are active during the day time cycle.
I highly doubt it will do any good for a nocturnal animal that usually lives in rodent burrows.
I could be wrong.

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Right on.

Your royal will experience winter whether you think so or not. It's well published that boa constrictors with the same type of consistent climate experience subtle changes in pressure, daylight, temps and humidity when removed from their natural environment and put into a captive one. Vincent Russo explains this in his book and Gus Rentfro another boa expert also states this. It is not strictly related to boa constrictors either.

Snakes HAVE seasons even if to us, things are always the same.

THE BIOLOGY OF BOAS AND PYTHONS is a good scientific read.

THE COMPLETE BALL PYTHON is another good read.

There are many other studies and books out there.

Don't be over eager to feed your animal. You will do more harm than good.

It's not really a coincidence that you see "stopped eating" posts pop up for royals this time of year. Your animal is a captive and it lives here or wherever you live. We do our best to recreate their natural environment but snakes are pretty hard wired to do what they do best. Surviving and adapting to subtle changes and being secretive is their specialty. Mature snakes will cycle through some type of mating behavior, they just do, and some will stop eating for whatever reason.

If you have purchased a royal thinking you will have an animal that is constantly on the ready to eat, be handled and to be active, you have the wrong animal.

As Eric Alan and others have stated, these are nocturnal animals, and royals especially, are very secretive.

Based on tail length, body mass and some other characteristics, they are terrestrial, and do not often forage for prey, they wait and feed when they are ready. This isn't every Saturday night at 7PM, or very 10 days. It's when they are hungry.

Almost anybody who has owned one for any length of time will tell you about food refusal. It is COMMON in this species!

Wait it out, offer, and if there is no response, wait longer and offer.

Although feeding is often our most exciting interaction with these snakes, you have to realize they run the show on when and if they are going to eat.

That said, if you see significant weighty loss, skin issues, or bizarre behavior a vet may be worth a look.

A lot of folks get very excited, myself included, to own a snake as a pet, but then realize, they are what they are and unless you have a diurnal colubrid that is an active foraging animal, you may not see your snake too often.

Once you realize that some of the little things snakes do are a big deal, you can reset your thoughts and really appreciate the animal for what it is. They are a successful design that is millions of years old, and is very adaptive to small changes and some not so small changes in their environment.

I'd suggest some in-depth research on snakes in general as it is a fascinating subject.

She still hasn't accepted food. She's borrowing and trying to escape her cage still when the lights go off.

Probably going to try a gerbil

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Originally Posted by Half Crazed

She still hasn't accepted food. She's borrowing and trying to escape her cage still when the lights go off.

Probably going to try a gerbil

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Why are you still trying to feed this snake when it was recommended that you ONLY try once every week to two weeks? Personally, I would not even try a gerbil. They can be aggressive little buggers. I have a 200 gram snake that currently only likes to eat every two weeks for me. I do not try to feed her everyday. I try once a week and that is it. I think you are freaking out over nothing at this point. Give that poor snake a break and stop stressing her out.

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Originally Posted by SnowBP

I remember the days I used to worry when my snakes go off feed. Lol

I have snakes that will go 5-6 months without eating and then pick up again on it like it never happened. Who can understand it! Don't worry about it. Give her a break. Only try once a week.

Also, when you say her heat is 12 hours on and 12 off. You do have some sort of heating 24 hours though, right?

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Yeah, this. When I was new to snakes I'd stress. At this stage, lol. No. My male hit 1200 grams and promptly stopped eating. He's eaten once since about Jan. His husbandry is dead on like it always was. He isn't losing weight or showing signs of illness. He'll come back around eventually. Meanwhile hey! Rats last longer! Bonus.

Seriously, if there's no weight loss (and not a few grams but some chunk of weight loss) or illness offer food every 10 days to 3 weeks, and leave it alone. It'll eat eventually. The more you bug it, the less likely it is to eat, and the more you create your own issue.

I would highly recommend NOT trying a gerbil. It is their natural prey but once u start it may never go back. I was in that situation before. My bp went from the first week of October until late Feb before she went back to feeding. As long as it's not losing a significant amount of weight i wouldn't stress to much. I would try every 10 days and keep the handling to an absolute minimum. It will eat when it's ready.

My Mr Ball Python had a Mouse after a 3 months of not eating, I offered him food every week I had done my research and he was at a good weight and was very Alert looks Healthy . This was my learning lesson on a Ball refusing food.

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