UTH Questions

Alright, so I don't currently have an UTH set up (using a heat lamp), but I've decided I should set it up sooner than later because the light's not quite working out (Warm side temps perfect, warm hide too cold; warm hide temps perfect, warm side too hot). I already know not to use the UTH without a thermostat, and I've got a Herpstat 1 Basic in the mail that should be here by next Tuesday, and should y'all's advice work out then I have a rheostat to hook the UTH up to until the Herpstat arrives. The UTH I have is a ZooMed ReptiTherm that's the right size for my tank (20 long).

Alright so questions:
1. The instructions for the ReptiTherm mention side- or back-mounting if bottom-mounting isn't possible (more on that later). Would you guys advise that for a BP's tank?
2. Where do I put the probe for the thermostat? The guide on here says between the UTH and the tank, but the UTH pictured has a space between the heating elements for the probe; the ReptiTherm doesn't. One of the guys at the Reptarium (reptile-only pet store) said the probe should go in the tank, where the snake will be feeling the heat. I've seen posts on here, however, that doing that opens up the possibility of the probe getting wet, the t-stat thinking the tank's too cool, and heating the UTH to the point of potential burns. Which should I do?
3. Alright getting into why bottom-mounting might not be possible. I currently have Maggie's tank sitting on a wood dresser, one that has some sentimentality for my mom (whom I live with). It's a dark wood dresser with some kind of finish on it. She's worried about the UTH discoloring/scorching the dresser and/or starting a fire. I'm trying to assure her that the rubber feet included with the UTH will elevate it enough, and that we could lay down a piece of wood or something between the tank and the dresser or get taller feet. Anyone had any problems with scorching/discoloration? Are my suggestions of a big enough board beneath it/taller feet good ones? How likely is it that a t-stat regulated UTH would cause a fire?

I think that's all I have for now, I'll ask more as they come up. Thanks in advance!

1. Mount it on the bottom. The snake will make more use of the uth that way.

2. Tape it to the outside of the uth. You don't have to sandwich it between the uth and the glass. I never do. Just make sure its secure and won't fall off.

3. The rubber feet that come with the uth will raise it enough to promote airflow. It will never come in contact with the dresser. Since you will be controlling it with a thermostat. The risk of fire is extremely extremely low. The lamps are more likely to catch fire at that point lol. As for scorching or discoloring the dresser? Its only going to be 90 degrees at the hottest... That's not nearly enough heat to do anything to the dresser. I don't think you need an extra piece of wood.

Think about it this way...if the uth was hot enough to damage the dresser...the snake would be cooked.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

1. Mount it on the bottom. The snake will make more use of the uth that way.

2. Tape it to the outside of the uth. You don't have to sandwich it between the uth and the glass. I never do. Just make sure its secure and won't fall off.

3. The rubber feet that come with the uth will raise it enough to promote airflow. It will never come in contact with the dresser. Since you will be controlling it with a thermostat. The risk of fire is extremely extremely low. The lamps are more likely to catch fire at that point lol. As for scorching or discoloring the dresser? Its only going to be 90 degrees at the hottest... That's not nearly enough heat to do anything to the dresser. I don't think you need an extra piece of wood.

Think about it this way...if the uth was hot enough to damage the dresser...the snake would be cooked.

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What kind of tape would I use to attach the t-stat probe to the UTH?

Ideally you don't want the glass to get above 95, and substrate thin enough to keep the surface at 90. The thermostat needs to sit in a spot that can regulate it to achieve this consistently. The zoo med pads are kinda thick, and the temp on the top aggainst the glass can vary more than the bottom. The temp fluctuates more between the pad and glass, and the best heat transfer happens in direct contact, so where between the glass and pad can be ok, and set to compensate, IMO in the tank, on the glass, in the middle.of the pad is best, being this is the surface temp you are trying to control. You need a non contact thermometer to check the entire surface to see where the hottest part of the surface is, some arent all that even, and you don't want a small spot hot enough to burn despite most of the pad being a safe lower temp. If the probe gets detatched it can overheat the glass, taping it down is very dangerous to the snake, even a loop of wire can be trouble, so I encase the probe and wire in hot glue directly to the glass. It's non-toxic, not sticky, keeps moisture away from the probe, insulates the probe from getting cooled.by spilled water, easy to clean, and relatively flat. Multi-temp glue melts above 180ish degrees, so only way it will melt is if the stat and heater both short, then you have bigger problems. 95 degrees won't hurt a dresser, but if it's a concern, set it on a peice of cardboard or wood, not something soft like a towel that would block airflow under the tank.

I've used duct tape, gaffers tape, or aluminum tape. Just check it every so often to make sure it didn't fall off.

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Originally Posted by alucard0822

Ideally you don't want the glass to get above 95, and substrate thin enough to keep the surface at 90. The thermostat needs to sit in a spot that can regulate it to achieve this consistently. The zoo med pads are kinda thick, and the temp on the top aggainst the glass can vary more than the bottom. The temp fluctuates more between the pad and glass, and the best heat transfer happens in direct contact, so where between the glass and pad can be ok, and set to compensate, IMO in the tank, on the glass, in the middle.of the pad is best, being this is the surface temp you are trying to control. You need a non contact thermometer to check the entire surface to see where the hottest part of the surface is, some arent all that even, and you don't want a small spot hot enough to burn despite most of the pad being a safe lower temp. If the probe gets detatched it can overheat the glass, taping it down is very dangerous to the snake, even a loop of wire can be trouble, so I encase the probe and wire in hot glue directly to the glass. It's non-toxic, not sticky, keeps moisture away from the probe, insulates the probe from getting cooled.by spilled water, easy to clean, and relatively flat. Multi-temp glue melts above 180ish degrees, so only way it will melt is if the stat and heater both short, then you have bigger problems. 95 degrees won't hurt a dresser, but if it's a concern, set it on a peice of cardboard or wood, not something soft like a towel that would block airflow under the tank.

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Can I get this kind of glue at a craft store? I don't have a hot glue gun, but I may be able to borrow one.

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Originally Posted by ChronicDreamer

Can I get this kind of glue at a craft store? I don't have a hot glue gun, but I may be able to borrow one.

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$10 gets you a good glue gun and some sticks. A dual temp gun and the most basic clear multi-temp sticks are best. It's basically PVA thermoplastic, and should be marked non-toxic, additives for specialty sticks might not safe. It's the best for gluing stuff in aquariums and terrariums.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChronicDreamer

Can I get this kind of glue at a craft store? I don't have a hot glue gun, but I may be able to borrow one.

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If you have a walmart nearby, they usually sell glueguns near the crafts/fabric area.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChronicDreamer

What kind of tape would I use to attach the t-stat probe to the UTH?

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Small roll of aluminum (heat) tape is around 3 or 4 dollars. View of underside of tank:


http://i62.tinypic.com/sdcolz.jpg

The probe is positioned to be under the area of the warm side hide, since that is where the BP spends most of his time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alucard0822

IMO in the tank, on the glass, in the middle.of the pad is best, being this is the surface temp you are trying to control. You need a non contact thermometer to check the entire surface to see where the hottest part of the surface is, some arent all that even, and you don't want a small spot hot enough to burn despite most of the pad being a safe lower temp. If the probe gets detatched it can overheat the glass, taping it down is very dangerous to the snake, even a loop of wire can be trouble, so I encase the probe and wire in hot glue directly to the glass.

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This is a bad idea.
You NEVER want the thermostat probe to be in a position to be altered.
Everyone tried to over complicate this and I cannot figure out why...............................
Heat pat(UTH) covered in aluminum tape (sticky side to sticky side), probe between pad and bottom of enclosure. Use foil tape on edges to secure pad to bottom of enclosure. Set temperature on thermostat to 90 (this is my starting point) and after an hour or so of run time check the inside temperature with a no contact gun. Adjust till you get the temp you are shooting for. Make note of your actual settings. FYI I have a couple racks running 102 degrees to have a 93 degree inside the tub temp.

Now back to why a probe inside the enclosure is almost as bad as not using a thermostat at all........
Have you ever had your snake tip, dump or over flow the water bowl?
Does your snake pee and poop in their enclosure?
If none these have never happened and you want to gamble that they never will then your probe inside the tank is safe.

I however have seen and know that any of these fluids can alter the probes reading and cause it to read lower than actual temps. This will cause the thermostat to fire up and more than likely run the mat hotter than you planned until the probe is at the set temperature it thinks it should be at.
Wiring and cables inside an enclosure can also add to other potential problems. Why give the opportunity to happen?
Not only this but I like to be able to clean my tubs and tanks. ;)

Well said PitOnTheProwl.. was going to type that lastnight but eh hate posting off iphone, I would like to add some thermostat probes are pretty big and no very convenient to put between the glass and the mat, when I came across this i put the probe on the back side of the mat and dialed in the temp with a temp gun and also always had a probe on it. But when a snake pees or poops on the probes just on my accurite ones there is a 2-3 degree difference just in that reading alone, so normally its 90-91 and when they to there stuff on it I get a reading of 86-89 and if this was a thermostat probe my uth would just keep heating untill it was the 92 degrees its set at, also good reminder that he has done it...

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

This is a bad idea.
You NEVER want the thermostat probe to be in a position to be altered.
Everyone tried to over complicate this and I cannot figure out why...............................
Heat pat(UTH) covered in aluminum tape (sticky side to sticky side), probe between pad and bottom of enclosure. Use foil tape on edges to secure pad to bottom of enclosure. Set temperature on thermostat to 90 (this is my starting point) and after an hour or so of run time check the inside temperature with a no contact gun. Adjust till you get the temp you are shooting for. Make note of your actual settings. FYI I have a couple racks running 102 degrees to have a 93 degree inside the tub temp.

Now back to why a probe inside the enclosure is almost as bad as not using a thermostat at all........
Have you ever had your snake tip, dump or over flow the water bowl?
Does your snake pee and poop in their enclosure?
If none these have never happened and you want to gamble that they never will then your probe inside the tank is safe.

I however have seen and know that any of these fluids can alter the probes reading and cause it to read lower than actual temps. This will cause the thermostat to fire up and more than likely run the mat hotter than you planned until the probe is at the set temperature it thinks it should be at.
Wiring and cables inside an enclosure can also add to other potential problems. Why give the opportunity to happen?
Not only this but I like to be able to clean my tubs and tanks. ;)

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So you wouldn't recommend encasing the probe/wire in hot glue? I'm glad several people are commenting on this, so I get a bunch of different opinions! ^u^

Is there a difference between aluminum and foil tape? And could I tape the probe to the bottom of the pad so it doesn't slide around while I'm placing the pad on the tank?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

This is a bad idea.
You NEVER want the thermostat probe to be in a position to be altered.
Everyone tried to over complicate this and I cannot figure out why...............................
Heat pat(UTH) covered in aluminum tape (sticky side to sticky side), probe between pad and bottom of enclosure. Use foil tape on edges to secure pad to bottom of enclosure. Set temperature on thermostat to 90 (this is my starting point) and after an hour or so of run time check the inside temperature with a no contact gun. Adjust till you get the temp you are shooting for. Make note of your actual settings. FYI I have a couple racks running 102 degrees to have a 93 degree inside the tub temp.

Now back to why a probe inside the enclosure is almost as bad as not using a thermostat at all........
Have you ever had your snake tip, dump or over flow the water bowl?
Does your snake pee and poop in their enclosure?
If none these have never happened and you want to gamble that they never will then your probe inside the tank is safe.

I however have seen and know that any of these fluids can alter the probes reading and cause it to read lower than actual temps. This will cause the thermostat to fire up and more than likely run the mat hotter than you planned until the probe is at the set temperature it thinks it should be at.
Wiring and cables inside an enclosure can also add to other potential problems. Why give the opportunity to happen?
Not only this but I like to be able to clean my tubs and tanks. ;)

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Good point, and the reason why the probe should be encased and insulated with hot glue, it's in contact with the glass, but won't be in contact with fluids spilled right over it. I've had good results with a probe between flexwatt and glass or a tub, and it's thin enough that you could get a good read on the back of it. The zoo med pads are a little more problematic, they heat uneven anyway, bubbles cause cool spots, and the backing is thick and insulates the temp by a few degrees.

Sigh.. Even if it's covered in hot glue pile of poo.. Spilled water and such will still affect the temp reading the probe will get..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChronicDreamer

So you wouldn't recommend encasing the probe/wire in hot glue? I'm glad several people are commenting on this, so I get a bunch of different opinions! ^u^

Is there a difference between aluminum and foil tape? And could I tape the probe to the bottom of the pad so it doesn't slide around while I'm placing the pad on the tank?

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No the foil and aluminum are the same thing.
You can use all the tape you want OUTSIDE the enclosure.

No I dont and wont glue anything in anymore.
Took one mite outbreak to open my eyes.

Ideally you want to be able to take everything out of the enclosure when doing the 'monthly' cleaning, which would be impossible with anything hot-glued into it.

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Originally Posted by michaelt

Sigh.. Even if it's covered in hot glue pile of poo.. Spilled water and such will still affect the temp reading the probe will get..

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This is why I think it's better to tape the thermostat under the UTH. If it is between UTH and glass and water is spilled in the enclosure the glass floor will cool down, the thermostat will read that temp, and the heat will stay on until the water has evaporated.

I meant it's better to tape the probe under the UTH.

Okay, I've got everything ready, two last questions, and the first is basically for Kaorte/The Golem and PitOnTheProwl: Thermostat probe between glass and pad or on backside of pad? And is the tape on the pad (sticky side to sticky side) really necessary? Is it to make removing the pad easier for cage cleaning?

Yes,tape on UTH is so that it can removed. Putting probe between glass and UTH is most common method, it will be secured in place and get accurate temp readings.
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