New Habitat construction underway!

Well I have made the first step away from glass tanks. I have a majority of the supplies thus far. The one component I do not have yet is the flexwatt tape. The interior measurements are 34"x16"x12". I was debating on the size of flexwatt to use. I was thinking 11" flexwatt or would 6" suffice. These are for ball pythons. Either way recommendations of sites to order the supplies from? I will post pictures of the work in progress for each of the habitats.

Dano

I generally get my supplies from Reptile Basics. As for the Flexwatt size, I'm not much help, but I would assume that it would be similar to sizing an Under Tank Heater, in which case, you would cover approximately 1/3 of the floor space. You could also call Reptile Basics and ask.

If this helps I use a 11" in my t8 48x24x12 but also have it split down the middle for 2 different enclosures so each side 24x24x12 with approx 5.25 on each side

I would use the 11" heat tape. I find that it raises the ambient temp to the correct level without having the floor burning hot. I just posted my tub setup in a diff thread you can check out. I have both reptile basics heat tape and flexxwatt and I prefer flexxwatt. Main reason is the connection method.

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Originally Posted by BrianDallek

I find that it raises the ambient temp to the correct level without having the floor burning hot.

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Heat tape doesn't raise ambient temps. If you're trying to raise temps, you should get a RHP. With that said, OP, I'd also suggest 11" which you can get from Reptile Basics.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Misha

Heat tape doesn't raise ambient temps. If you're trying to raise temps, you should get a RHP. With that said, OP, I'd also suggest 11" which you can get from Reptile Basics.

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Unless we just entered the twilight zone ..heat tape absolutely DOES raise ambient temps. Where do you think the heat from the tape goes? My room is 73 degrees. The tape heats the floor temp to 91 degrees in my tubs and that heat travels up... as heat tends to do and becomes trapped in the tub raising ambient temps to 84 degrees. Im amazed at the amount of garbage advice on this forum. Seriously.

Sure, heat tape will raise ambient temperatures a bit. Is it the most efficient way to do so? No, otherwise it would be more difficult than it is to create a temperature gradient within an enclosure. But, yes, it does have an effect on ambient temperatures.

In a temperature controlled room with enclosures that retain heat well, like Brian's, heat tape alone is relatively effective in raising ambient temps a few degrees to where they should be for our animals. However, if the temperature of the room drops too much below that, additional heat sources are typically recommended - especially with enclosures that don't retain heat as well.

It should probably go without saying, but regardless of which size heat tape you choose, OP, make sure you're running it through a thermostat to keep it from heating the bottom of your enclosure too much. I'm sure you're already well aware of that though. :)

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Originally Posted by BrianDallek

Unless we just entered the twilight zone ..heat tape absolutely DOES raise ambient temps. Where do you think the heat from the tape goes? My room is 73 degrees. The tape heats the floor temp to 91 degrees in my tubs and that heat travels up... as heat tends to do and becomes trapped in the tub raising ambient temps to 84 degrees. Im amazed at the amount of garbage advice on this forum. Seriously.

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The only garbage advice on this thread, is yours.

Do you realize that room temperatures vary throughout the day unless it's controlled? Which means (since apparently you don't know) unless your room stays a certain temperature 24 hours a day, an enclosure will cool or heat up depending on the temperature. Especially one as thin as a tub. I have 3 PVC enclosures and they're still susceptible to temperature change.

Additionally, OP is building his own enclosure which means he'll be probably using xpvc or wood to build it. Do you know the difference between heating a tub to heating a piece of wood or xpvc? You also don't realize the size difference of your tub to a large enclosure. You need a lot more heat to get a 36x16x12 enclosure up to proper temps. So before you bring in Twilight Zone and rudeness into this thread at least make sure you know how heat works through different surfaces and sizes.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Misha

The only garbage advice on this thread, is yours.

Do you realize that room temperatures vary throughout the day unless it's controlled? Which means (since apparently you don't know) unless your room stays a certain temperature 24 hours a day, an enclosure will cool or heat up depending on the temperature. Especially one as thin as a tub. I have 3 PVC enclosures and they're still susceptible to temperature change.

Additionally, OP is building his own enclosure which means he'll be probably using xpvc or wood to build it. Do you know the difference between heating a tub to heating a piece of wood or xpvc? You also don't realize the size difference of your tub to a large enclosure. You need a lot more heat to get a 36x16x12 enclosure up to proper temps. So before you bring in Twilight Zone and rudeness into this thread at least make sure you know how heat works through different surfaces and sizes.

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LOL, seriously slow your insecurity. And by the way your still wrong. First off what does temperature change in a room have anything to do with wether heat tape creates ambient temperature?? Your arguing a point with an irrelevant side topic. Temperature change in a room is what a thermostat is for. He asked what size heat tape to use. I replied the 11" so it would create more ambient temperature without the floor getting as hot as say 6" heat tape to create the same amount of ambient temperature. You replied that heat tape does not create any ambient temperature change which is ridiculous. Guess what most homemade incubators use to raise ambient temps?? Heat tape. Guess what most rack manufacturers use to heat their tubs and create ambient temps, yup its heat tape. Guess what I've put under all the different cages that I've ever had from homemade to vision and so on to create floor heat and raise ambient temps...heat tape. Was I a bit rash when it comes to my reply, sure. heat tape raises ambient temps in my tubs 11 degrees over room temp with keeping floor temps at 91. In my incubator it raises the ambient temps 17 degrees over room temp with ease. For anyone who is still unsure about this google: "flexwatt create ambient temps" or call up any rack manufacturer and ask them if the heat tape will raise air temp in the tub. Get the 11" tape.

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Originally Posted by BrianDallek

LOL, seriously slow your insecurity. And by the way your still wrong. First off what does temperature change in a room have anything to do with wether heat tape creates ambient temperature?? Your arguing a point with an irrelevant side topic. Temperature change in a room is what a thermostat is for. He asked what size heat tape to use. I replied the 11" so it would create more ambient temperature without the floor getting as hot as say 6" heat tape to create the same amount of ambient temperature. You replied that heat tape does not create any ambient temperature change which is ridiculous. Guess what most homemade incubators use to raise ambient temps?? Heat tape. Guess what most rack manufacturers use to heat their tubs and create ambient temps, yup its heat tape. Guess what I've put under all the different cages that I've ever had from homemade to vision and so on to create floor heat and raise ambient temps...heat tape. Was I a bit rash when it comes to my reply, sure. heat tape raises ambient temps in my tubs 11 degrees over room temp with keeping floor temps at 91. In my incubator it raises the ambient temps 17 degrees over room temp with ease. For anyone who is still unsure about this google: "flexwatt create ambient temps" or call up any rack manufacturer and ask them if the heat tape will raise air temp in the tub. Get the 11" tape.

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Insecurity about what? If you think that room temperature has nothing to do with how your terrarium or tub is heated, you must really don't know how any of this works. If the room isn't warm enough, heat tape isn't going to do anything except provide belly heat while the rest of the enclosure will be cold. Anyways, I'm tired of arguing with you. Good luck with thinking that heat tape can provide proper ambient temps without proper room temps.

Well First I didnt want this to turn into an argument. That being said the enclosures are being made out of melamine and will be in a room where the ambient air temperature is about 75 to 78 degrees during the winter months. During the summer months it can get warmer by a few degrees. I am pretty sure I will be going with the 11 inch. Thank you all for the input.

Not trying to join the argument but if your room Temps never drop below 75 degrees than covering your enclosure with no more than 1/3 of the bottom with heat tape will be just fine. 36 inch wide enslocure then use 11 inch and you will do just fine. But if your Temps drop below 75 degeess I would suggest a radiant heat panel and a thermostat to help keep your ambient temperatures up above 78 for ball pythons and heat tape with another thermostat to provide the 88-90 degree hot spot

I will have a thermostat for the flexwatt tape. Considering some sort of temperature readout for the ambient air in the habitat as well. My other question is would it be fine to connect the flexwatt in parallel since I will be stacking them. (Two stacks of four on an insulated base. I live in an older house and though the room is warm the floor can feel cool. I will make sure to take some pictures of the work in progress. I will order the flexwatt next week. What gauge of wire is used for wiring flexwatt? Is is solid wire or braided? I am guessing probably 12 or 14 gauge wire for it.

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Originally Posted by Danomano

I will have a thermostat for the flexwatt tape. Considering some sort of temperature readout for the ambient air in the habitat as well. My other question is would it be fine to connect the flexwatt in parallel since I will be stacking them. (Two stacks of four on an insulated base. I live in an older house and though the room is warm the floor can feel cool. I will make sure to take some pictures of the work in progress. I will order the flexwatt next week. What gauge of wire is used for wiring flexwatt? Is is solid wire or braided? I am guessing probably 12 or 14 gauge wire for it.

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gauge of wire in this case is not relevant. your local hardware store will have what they call "lamp cord" this is what your want to get to wire heat tape. It comes in standard and heavy duty. Either will work because you will be dealing in low wattage.

After reading through this thread I am sickened by the way members on this site handled the OP questions. people lets remember whats at stake here , its nos not pride but an animals well being. we ALL should have a common goal to help new members create the best environments possible. The thing I find sad is that the 2 members arguing were both right and wrong in their statements at the same time. I deal in wooden cages so here are some facts that should help the OP. Wooden cages made out of 3/4 " material hold heat and humidity better than glass cages. Heat tape DOES NOT raise ambient air temps, but rather it heats objects such as cage material, substrate , rocks or anything else placed on top of it. This in turn will raise air temps a few degrees ( max 5-10 degrees) Room temp. also plays a large part of it. If your room temp is 65 deg. then heat tape alone will not be able to create optimal conditions. While arguing who is right and wrong both members failed to touch on the more important topic in wooden cages , floor thickness. Heat tape will be ineffective to heat 3/4" material properly. You will need to install some sort of an inlay into the floor of the cage. Some members have used glass, plexi or tile. All will work ok , just make sure its at least 1/4" thick. attach the heat tape to the inlay. I also want to add a word of caution. Melamine board is water resistant not water proof. It contains harsh chemicals such as formaldehyde that can leech out if subjected to moist conditions for long periods of time. My suggestion would be to either use another type of material for the floor or cover the melamine floor with either clear acrylic (plexi glass) or linoleum tile, etc. Melamine is fine for the walls and top. Hope this helps.

I should clarify what the plan is for the interior. I am planning on having the heat tape inside the habitat with a layer such as linoleum or some sort of thin layer to cover it.

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Originally Posted by Danomano

I should clarify what the plan is for the interior. I am planning on having the heat tape inside the habitat with a layer such as linoleum or some sort of thin layer to cover it.

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NEVER NEVER NEVER put heat tape inside an enclosure! The only acceptable way to use heat tape on a wooden enclosure is the way i have explain earlier. Please do some more research.

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Originally Posted by norwegn113

NEVER NEVER NEVER put heat tape inside an enclosure! The only acceptable way to use heat tape on a wooden enclosure is the way i have explain earlier. Please do some more research.

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Again, the heat tape will be covered. It would be from bottom layer to top layer: Melamine (subfloor if you will), heat tape w/probe, linoleum or better product I can find. It is basically the same thing you said earlier I just perhaps phrased it wrong. There is no way that the heat tape could heat properly through 3/4" board. That is what the layer of linoleum or acrylic is for, to go over the heat tape.

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Originally Posted by Danomano

Again, the heat tape will be covered. It would be from bottom layer to top layer: Melamine (subfloor if you will), heat tape w/probe, linoleum or better product I can find. It is basically the same thing you said earlier I just perhaps phrased it wrong. There is no way that the heat tape could heat properly through 3/4" board. That is what the layer of linoleum or acrylic is for, to go over the heat tape.

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It is not the same thing. you can not sandwich the heat tape between the 3/4" material and the linoleum. it is a fire hazard. The heat tape needs to be mounted outside the cage with a small air gap on bottom to keep from over heating. Please take my advice and do some more research on this topic.

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Originally Posted by norwegn113

AThe thing I find sad is that the 2 members arguing were both right and wrong in their statements at the same time. I deal in wooden cages so here are some facts that should help the OP. Wooden cages made out of 3/4 " material hold heat and humidity better than glass cages. Heat tape DOES NOT raise ambient air temps, but rather it heats objects such as cage material, substrate , rocks or anything else placed on top of it. This in turn will raise air temps a few degrees ( max 5-10 degrees) Room temp.

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Ok so I was done with this thread, but I'll chime in one last time. I was not wrong in any part of my statement. Heat tape DOES raise ambient air temps. Seriously man. Your saying that it heats something that then in turn raises ambient air temps. Please tell me an application where heat tape does not touch anything first off?? AND.....I'll try to explain this with an example even a child can understand. If I had a mini fridge and I hung two feet of heat tape inside only hanging by the wire that powers it, NOT touching any part of the fridge at all and I shut the door. Your saying that the heat tape would not raise the temps inside the fridge because its not touching anything? Heat tape is not a microwave. The plastic casing on the heat tape is the material your talking about, and it is part of the heat tape. Your 5-10 degree max may be true through 3/4" wood, but sure isn't true on cages/tubs specifically made for reptiles. Like I said before it easily raises temps in my Vision tubs 11 degrees and that is with a thermostat. If I left it unregulated it would raise the ambient temps in my tubs over 20 degrees no problem. And my tubs have 1/16 to 1/8 inch gap around the entire top and thy have 9 holes drilled in the sides.

My personal advice: By the time you factor in time and materials your wood enclosure will not be a better choice over say a Vision cage or similar, sorry. I have vision cages going on 15 years old still like new cause they are one piece plastic. For dry climate animals wood is great, but what your trying to make is gonna be a tank. You can get a Vision 221 which has 128 square inches more floor space than what your building for $155 plus shipping.

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Originally Posted by BrianDallek

LOL, seriously slow your insecurity. And by the way your still wrong. First off what does temperature change in a room have anything to do with wether heat tape creates ambient temperature?? Your arguing a point with an irrelevant side topic. Temperature change in a room is what a thermostat is for. He asked what size heat tape to use. I replied the 11" so it would create more ambient temperature without the floor getting as hot as say 6" heat tape to create the same amount of ambient temperature. You replied that heat tape does not create any ambient temperature change which is ridiculous. Guess what most homemade incubators use to raise ambient temps?? Heat tape. Guess what most rack manufacturers use to heat their tubs and create ambient temps, yup its heat tape. Guess what I've put under all the different cages that I've ever had from homemade to vision and so on to create floor heat and raise ambient temps...heat tape. Was I a bit rash when it comes to my reply, sure. heat tape raises ambient temps in my tubs 11 degrees over room temp with keeping floor temps at 91. In my incubator it raises the ambient temps 17 degrees over room temp with ease. For anyone who is still unsure about this google: "flexwatt create ambient temps" or call up any rack manufacturer and ask them if the heat tape will raise air temp in the tub. Get the 11" tape.

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This is not facebook, so don't act like it is.

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Originally Posted by BrianDallek

Ok so I was done with this thread, but I'll chime in one last time. I was not wrong in any part of my statement. Heat tape DOES raise ambient air temps. Seriously man. Your saying that it heats something that then in turn raises ambient air temps. Please tell me an application where heat tape does not touch anything first off?? AND.....I'll try to explain this with an example even a child can understand. If I had a mini fridge and I hung two feet of heat tape inside only hanging by the wire that powers it, NOT touching any part of the fridge at all and I shut the door. Your saying that the heat tape would not raise the temps inside the fridge because its not touching anything? Heat tape is not a microwave. The plastic casing on the heat tape is the material your talking about, and it is part of the heat tape. Your 5-10 degree max may be true through 3/4" wood, but sure isn't true on cages/tubs specifically made for reptiles. Like I said before it easily raises temps in my Vision tubs 11 degrees and that is with a thermostat. If I left it unregulated it would raise the ambient temps in my tubs over 20 degrees no problem. And my tubs have 1/16 to 1/8 inch gap around the entire top and thy have 9 holes drilled in the sides.

My personal advice: By the time you factor in time and materials your wood enclosure will not be a better choice over say a Vision cage or similar, sorry. I have vision cages going on 15 years old still like new cause they are one piece plastic. For dry climate animals wood is great, but what your trying to make is gonna be a tank. You can get a Vision 221 which has 128 square inches more floor space than what your building for $155 plus shipping.

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that is exactly what im saying. Heat tape should never at any point reach temps higher than 100 deg. If you were to hang a piece like you stated it would not do much at all to raise internal temps. The plastic coating you speak of has no significant mass, therefore is not a good conductor of heat. ( try your experiment and let us know how it works. ) if what you say is true why then would people spend $100.00 on a radiant heat panel when they could just buy a piece of heat tape for $15.00 and put it on the ceiling instead? I will agree in the long run a vision cage is the better value and perhaps a better route for beginners. Wood cages can however create a look that cant be matched by any plastic product and if built correctly can last as long as any plastic cage system.

http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/...psff8e354d.jpghere is a pic of one of my triple stacked cages. Much more expensive than vision cages but a look of fine furniture. they are fiberglass lined so they will last and moisture is not a factor.

This whole thread kind of makes me laugh. Its a silly and unnecessary argument.


Do you know what an RHP is? It is essentially an insulated piece of flexwatt. Not exactly, but its the same idea. You can make one yourself if you want and I have in fact done it many times to do what exactly? Raise ambient temps. And yes, it only cost me like $15.

There are tons of ways to go about heating this enclosure. Some are better than others, some are safer than others, but none of them are wrong. You guys are arguing about the most non-essential item of BP husbandry... Ambient temps. These can fluctuate quite a bit and as long as that hot spot temp is stable, the snake is going to be just fine. The OP already said that the room ambient temps will be well within the recommended range. So whats all the fuss?

To say that heat tape will not increase ambient temperatures AT ALL is incorrect. They will increase, but it depends on what it is attached to and what your thermostat is set to. Obviously its not going to do the same work as a heat lamp, but for the purposes of ball pythons, it does plenty... unless your house is like 60 degrees or something.

My point is, blanket advice will get you nowhere.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

This whole thread kind of makes me laugh. Its a silly and unnecessary argument.


Do you know what an RHP is? It is essentially an insulated piece of flexwatt. Not exactly, but its the same idea. You can make one yourself if you want and I have in fact done it many times to do what exactly? Raise ambient temps. And yes, it only cost me like $15.

There are tons of ways to go about heating this enclosure. Some are better than others, some are safer than others, but none of them are wrong. You guys are arguing about the most non-essential item of BP husbandry... Ambient temps. These can fluctuate quite a bit and as long as that hot spot temp is stable, the snake is going to be just fine. The OP already said that the room ambient temps will be well within the recommended range. So whats all the fuss?

To say that heat tape will not increase ambient temperatures AT ALL is incorrect. They will increase, but it depends on what it is attached to and what your thermostat is set to. Obviously its not going to do the same work as a heat lamp, but for the purposes of ball pythons, it does plenty... unless your house is like 60 degrees or something.

My point is, blanket advice will get you nowhere.

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Holy crap, Steffe came back!

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

This whole thread kind of makes me laugh. Its a silly and unnecessary argument.


Do you know what an RHP is? It is essentially an insulated piece of flexwatt. Not exactly, but its the same idea. You can make one yourself if you want and I have in fact done it many times to do what exactly? Raise ambient temps. And yes, it only cost me like $15.

There are tons of ways to go about heating this enclosure. Some are better than others, some are safer than others, but none of them are wrong. You guys are arguing about the most non-essential item of BP husbandry... Ambient temps. These can fluctuate quite a bit and as long as that hot spot temp is stable, the snake is going to be just fine. The OP already said that the room ambient temps will be well within the recommended range. So whats all the fuss?

To say that heat tape will not increase ambient temperatures AT ALL is incorrect. They will increase, but it depends on what it is attached to and what your thermostat is set to. Obviously its not going to do the same work as a heat lamp, but for the purposes of ball pythons, it does plenty... unless your house is like 60 degrees or something.

My point is, blanket advice will get you nowhere.

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yes Im very familiar with heating equipment. I know the difference between heat tape and radiant heat panels and proper uses and installs. In fact im done trying to help. The OP can use whatever method they see fit and if they sandwich heat tape between 2 objects so be it take your chances and risk a fire I dont care. my animals are safe and sound. You were warned. Im done. I dont know why I even bother sometimes.

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Originally Posted by norwegn113

that is exactly what im saying. Heat tape should never at any point reach temps higher than 100 deg. If you were to hang a piece like you stated it would not do much at all to raise internal temps. The plastic coating you speak of has no significant mass, therefore is not a good conductor of heat. ( try your experiment and let us know how it works. ) if what you say is true why then would people spend $100.00 on a radiant heat panel when they could just buy a piece of heat tape for $15.00 and put it on the ceiling instead? I will agree in the long run a vision cage is the better value and perhaps a better route for beginners. Wood cages can however create a look that cant be matched by any plastic product and if built correctly can last as long as any plastic cage system.

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Ok so to be fair (to myself of course) I said that heat tape raises ambient temperature. I can not for the life of me see a situation where the heat tape would not be in contact with something. Either touching the bottom of the cage or the table the cage is on (unless we are talking about that new hover tape). Either way ambient temperature is raised when heat tape is used for floor heat. I mean one could argue that really it isn't even the heat tape and that it is the electricity powering the heat tape. Or in this case your saying that it is the material the heat tape is touching that is in fact raising the ambient temperature. Either way without the heat tape there is no heat or ambient temperature rise. So I feel my original statement was correct."I find that it raises the ambient temp" & "The tape heats the floor temp to 91 degrees in my tubs and that heat travels up... as heat tends to do and becomes trapped in the tub raising ambient temps to 84 degrees". Clearly I say that it heats the floor first and then raises up creating ambient temps. I was quickly met with "Heat tape doesn't raise ambient temps". Never once did I say that it would create enough heat for his cage he is building. I merely pointed out that 11" would be better than 6" because it would create more ambient temperature because it would be heating more surface area. That is it. So unless i reread this thread incorrectly I still stand behind what I said 100%.

Now somehow I have gotten into a hypothetical experiment (brought on by myself) on wether the heat tape alone by itself hanging in mid air will create ambient temperature. of course this has no practical application and is merely a pointless side track that I should have not brought up and I get enough of that from the wife. I do not have extra heat tape right this second, but I still feel even without it touching anything that it will still raise ambient temps. And honestly all i need to be right is 1 degree in my opinion. See by saying it creates no ambient temps your saying 0, no exception. by me saying it does that could be anything from .0001 degree to 100+ degree increase. My money is on my side of this, sorry.

Ok so I found a flukers heat tape thing and am conducting the experiment right now. Unfortunately I do not have any extra flexxwatt wired up right now, but this should be good enough. Keep posted for the results. the tape is 6x11 (small) and the fridge is a pretty big wine fridge. I have a temp gauge in there now acclimating and will plug in the heat tape after about 10-15minutes with no thermostat.

Ok so here is the mini fridge with acurite inside acclimating:

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...4/img_6122.jpg

I took the acurite out of my utility room and it read 77 degrees and 25 humidity. Had to take out the middle shelf so the heat tape doesn't touch anything at all. It dropped down to 73 degrees and 22 humidity and doesn't appear to be going lower or changing so I am plugging in the heat tape. will give it a good 30min and see if this equivalent half a foot of 11" heat tape can raise the ambient temps in this bigger mini fridge by a degree or two.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...4/img_6125.jpg

Did you put a thermostat on it?

I mean, this is literally an incubator but instead of hanging in the middle, the heat is on the sides. It heats the air inside the fridge. Then again the probe is not directly on the flexwatt so the tape runs much hotter. Same concept. Works great.


And yes Matt, back for a spell. Had someone reply to an old diy thread I did. I see not much has changed here? Lol

Here is the result. 4 degree increase after 30min from this small piece of heat tape hanging in the middle with no other object touching it. Even though this is not the point i was trying to make in the beginning this should prove ambient temperature increase from nothing other than the tape itself. I rest my case.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...4/img_6126.jpg

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Originally Posted by BrianDallek

Here is the result. 4 degree increase after 30min from this small piece of heat tape hanging in the middle with no other object touching it. Even though this is not the point i was trying to make in the beginning this should prove ambient temperature increase from nothing other than the tape itself. I rest my case.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...4/img_6126.jpg

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You the man. Very scientifically done. I will go take out all my RHP and hang some heat tape in it's place.

.......:pc: