How to move on from assist feeding?

Hi all, I'm new here but not so new to snakes. My normal, 5 month old male hadn't eaten for nearly 2 and a half months and after trying every trick in the book (except for live - I think it's illegal where I live) I decided that I would have to assist feed him. He tried spitting the rat pinkie out once but the second time he kept it in and ate it - much to my relief. So now I'm wondering how do I get him to take food on his own? Should I just go back to offering the pinkies on tongs? I usually feed my snakes in a separate container, force of habit more than anything else, so will he start striking after a couple of assist feeds? Does anyone have any experiences they can share with me?
Any advice will be much appreciated, thanks [emoji4]


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Hi,

I would only recommend assist feeding for snakes that have never eaten by themselves previously - new hatchlings mainly.

They can go quite a while fasting without losing much weight or condition - one of my males does it every winter.

Did you change anything husbandry related just before he went off feed?

But I suspect the size of the prey may be an issue - a pinkie rat is a bit small and you may get a better response with something a bit larger.

Where are you at? The reason I ask is that a lot of chain petstores will tell you they can't sell live feeders. For awhile I was under the impression that it was illegal in my state bc of this.

I'm not going to get into how long to wait or what to try after an assist feed, but feeding in his tank won't cause aggression, especially if that's not the only time you go in there.

Thanks for the replies. I actually came back on to edit my post cause the only time I fed him outside his viv was when I assist fed. And it's not something I done lightly, he was starting to look thin and after watching a ton of YouTube vids quite a few said when they're that young they shouldn't be going so long without food. I would expect fasting from an adult during winter or whatever and wouldn't worry so much. Anyways, yeah I think he could go up a size but the only reason he's being offered rat pups is cause the guy who gave me him didn't tell me anything as to what he was eating so I didn't wanna offer something too big just incase.
What I'm looking for though is advice on what to do from here? Will I just offer in his viv like I was doing before the assist feed? Should his feeding response kick in?
And I live in Belfast, Northern Ireland. I used to work in a pet shop selling hamsters and rats etc and we were told then not to sell animals to snake owners as it's illegal to feed live. Plus I'd be uncomfortable doing it anyways!


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If live is what it was eating then that is what I would offer.
1st post you said rat punk and this one rat pup??

I never said he was eating live, I think you've misread something perhaps?
I get my frozen rats at two different stores. One calls them rat pinkies and the other calls them rat pups but they are the same size when you actually see them. I don't know why the two stores have different names.


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Different stores may use different terminology for feeder sizes, they're not standard.

If the guy who sold you the snake produced it, it's highly likely he was feeding live and probably raises his own feeders. Most BP babies start on live rodents, either mouse hoppers or rat pups, and then can get converted to f/t after taking a few meals. I would contact him and ask if he can provide feeders for a few more weeks. Once your baby is comfortable and eating in his new home, then attempt to convert him.

Also, if your husbandry isn't correct that can throw any ball python off food. How are you housing him and what are his hot/cool side temperatures?

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Originally Posted by thismissbex

I never said he was eating live, I think you've misread something perhaps?
I get my frozen rats at two different stores. One calls them rat pinkies and the other calls them rat pups but they are the same size when you actually see them. I don't know why the two stores have different names.


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Yeah that's weird! Pups and pinkies are definitely different. Pinkies are just that, pink and blind. Pups got fuzz and opened eyes. I think they are often interchangeably referred to as "crawlers".

I don't have any contact details for the guy I got him from. But he was weird, like, I said hi as I walked into his hallway and he told me to shush and be quiet in the house! [emoji23] And I swear he couldn't get me out quick enough!! That's why I didn't get much info on his feeding etc. It was a strange experience to say the least!

And he's in a wooden viv with glass sliding doors. Aspen bedding, two hides, water bowl, some wood and a vine and some fake plants. Heat mat with thermostat set to 30C (it was 31C but he didn't go into his warm hide at all so I turned it down a degree and he mainly stays in the warm hide now. Oh and sorry, I don't do Fahrenheit!!) The cool side is around 25C. After the first few days I did handle him and I'm thinking that's what spooked him cause when the breeder got him out when I was collecting him he hissed. Though he's never done it since but I still think my handling may have been the cause. So I've not handled him at all for a good few weeks now.
So I guess I'll just offer in his viv next time and hopefully the assist feed will have brought his appetite back?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by thismissbex

I never said he was eating live, I think you've misread something perhaps?
I get my frozen rats at two different stores. One calls them rat pinkies and the other calls them rat pups but they are the same size when you actually see them. I don't know why the two stores have different names.


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Oh I didnt miss read what you miss understood.
I meant IF the breeder was feeding live then that is what you should do.
Ask the breeder you got it from.

Ah, I see. Well like I said, I have no contact details for him. And personally I don't agree with feeding live anyways so it's a no go for me


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I'd offer him food every 7-10 days until he eats. I know it happens sometimes but most animals won't starve themselves to death. Hunger will usually win in the end. Best wishes.

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Originally Posted by thismissbex

Ah, I see. Well like I said, I have no contact details for him.

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Originally Posted by thismissbex

And personally I don't agree with feeding live anyways so it's a no go for me


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Whatever it takes to get your snake eating should be what's okay IMO. If it's actually illegal, then I can respect that (I'm not going to tell someone to break the law). I really do hope you can get him to take f/t, but you did go out and purchase a carnivorous exotic animal that has been evolving to kill mice for millions of years. Making sure it stays healthy is on you now.

For those of us who still use English units, 25*C-30*C = 77*F-86*F. I'd bump up the high side a degree *C.

Oh totally, I would never allow his health to be in jeopardy but I'm confident there will be a way without using live!
I was just really curious to see if anyone else has had experience with assist feeding? I haven't got much answers on that specific area?


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Put it back up even though he never went to the warm side when I had it at 31C before?


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Assist feeding really shouldnt be done with an animal that has ever eaten on its own.
All you are doing is adding more unneeded stress on it.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Assist feeding really shouldnt be done with an animal that has ever eaten on its own.
All you are doing is adding more unneeded stress on it.

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With all due respect, you can tell me this all day long but what's done is done! And I'm asking for advice on what to do now? So if you have any that would be awesome [emoji4]


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Just to be clear - the snake hasn't eaten since you received him? If so, adding in fact that the last owner was a bit sketchy and not available for questions, you can't be sure the snake ever ate on it's own anyway. Converting assist feeders varies from snake to snake. Some will only need 1-2 to get kick started. Others will need weeks or even months before they figure things out.

Since you're assist feeding f/t and you have no other option but f/t, converting is easy enough - though difficulty has nothing to do with length of time. He could eat on his own next offering, or in 2 weeks, or in 2 months or even longer. Here's how I'd do it if I were in your circumstances. I'd try a few things before assisting again though.

First thing I'd try before assisting again:
1) Wait until late evening, early night.
2) You want to do this while he is relaxed in his hide.
3) Warm up rodent to roughly 37-38C. It helps if you have a temp gun.
4) Leave f/t rodent outside but within a couple inches of hide entrance.
5) Come back in the morning - if rodent still there discard it.

Second thing I'd try about 7 days later:
1) Wait until late evening, early night.
2) Same as before, preferably when snake is relaxed in hide.
3) Warm up rodent to roughly 37-38C. It helps if you have a temp gun.
4) Dangle in front of hide for a bit, see if you can't get a response.
5) If no strike after a couple minutes of teasing, leave rodent overnight.

I'd do the above 2 methods with mice and rats if they're both available to you. One more month without food, especially since he just got assist fed, won't make or break this guy regardless.

At that point I'd probably go back to assist feeding. Here's what I'd personally do with the restriction of only using f/t rodents.

1) Wait until late evening, early night - preferably with snake in hide.
2) Zombie dance warmed up rodent.
3) Leave rodent in front of hide.
4) Turn out all lights, leave room, come back in 4-5 hours.
5) If rodent still there I'd then assist.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thismissbex

Oh totally, I would never allow his health to be in jeopardy but I'm confident there will be a way without using live!
I was just really curious to see if anyone else has had experience with assist feeding? I haven't got much answers on that specific area?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by thismissbex

With all due respect, you can tell me this all day long but what's done is done! And I'm asking for advice on what to do now? So if you have any that would be awesome [emoji4]


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Actually I already did.
You refuse to try live, havent mentioned if its a problem in your area either.
Good luck to you.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Actually I already did.
You refuse to try live, havent mentioned if its a problem in your area either.
Good luck to you.

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I'd call some folks and get verification on this first. Pet store "laws" are not exactly dependable. Might be time for you to buy a couple pet mice. A male and a couple females to keep him company.

John1982 THANK YOU!!! For not only the advice but for actually reading my posts! Honestly, it's much appreciated! [emoji4][emoji106]


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