UTH and belly burns

I have been a member of this site for about two years now and in that time you see alot of the same topics over and over again. The one that really bothers me is snakes being burned by UTH. Tomorrow will be 2015. we live in an era of high tech gadgets and yet we still hear almost daily of snakes suffering horrible burns. I just dont understand. People are smart enough to find sites like this AFTER they have caused a burn but dont think about doing a bit of research BEFORE they get their animals. The excuse that I find the hardest to handle is " I dont have to money for a thermostat. " there are a lot of fabulous thermostats out there like herpstats and such but they can be a bit pricey for first timers. HOWEVER, there are also thermostats out there like the digital hydrofarm model that runs about $25.00 plus shipping from Amazon. this model works well for a lower end device and is better than nothing. I have not done any research on this but my guess is that a majority of the snakes being burned are the so called " normals " that are priced for about $20.00. I highly doubt some one would spend a couple hundred dollars and risk their investment being burned. It just makes me sad. Is there any good answer on how to stop this ? Me and my wife belong to the Chicago Herpetological Society and do alot of educational shows on proper snake husbandry.

Its mainly because they buy the animal at the spur of the moment.
Dont do any research at all and usually only take one persons recommendations.

The cheapest snake in most retail stores is probably 30-40 bucks. There is no normal's in the petsmart industry. They charge a 20 dollar markup on an albino corn snake here in Ohio which is already 40-60 bucks for a normal.

I have to say that at Least most belly burns are caused by malfunctioning equipment. I'll explain my reasoning.

The most common UTH is the stick on one in the red package. If a thermostat was totally necessary for those we would hear WAY more of these belly burns than we do. Because they usually sell one with every Leopard Gecko or snake.

I would say the true problem is with the UTH companies not having good quality controls than owners not buying thermostats.

I had a leopard gecko and several snakes growing up and always used the stick on uth and never once had a burn. The thermostat is a great safe guard and I now have them. I got lucky in that sense I guess. But since I bet most thermostats are made in the same region of the world the UTH is made I would guess that it's just as likely a thermostat would be bad too.

Your original statement is true, most of these reptiles are probably "pet" quality getting burned because most people don't spend several hundred dollars on something and don't protect it with a 40 dollar thermostat. But I don't think this is because of uneducated owners, I would say that they earn an "at a boy" for not getting a heat rock. They are recommended a UTH or read they should use one in a book and do see one that is specifically made for reptiles and say, why would they make this for reptiles and then let it get hot enough for them to burn it alive. This combined with other recommendations to keep snakes on paper towels which allows a snake to come in full contact with a UTH is another issue.

Sorry if this seamed like a ramble but it's New Years and you know I ain't thinking bout grammar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jhill001

I have to say that at Least most belly burns are caused by malfunctioning equipment. I'll explain my reasoning.

The most common UTH is the stick on one in the red package. If a thermostat was totally necessary for those we would hear WAY more of these belly burns than we do. Because they usually sell one with every Leopard Gecko or snake.

I would say the true problem is with the UTH companies not having good quality controls than owners not buying thermostats.

---

You would be surprised how many people run lighting instead of a pad. Why? Because that's what all the pre made kits come with.

How do you figure it would be a quality control problem when these are made?
There are many factors into what the maximum temperature an UTH can reach.
Air flow, room temperature and so on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jhill001

I would say the true problem is with the UTH companies not having good quality controls than owners not buying thermostats.

---

If there were a significant problem with malfunctioning equipment or quality control, there would be recalls to attest to this fact. To my memory, the only Zoo Med under tank heater to be recalled was the BettaTherm (the mini one intended for fish), which means the rest of their heaters function largely as intended. What does "as intended" mean according to the manufacturer?

I'm not sure how many people have actually read the Zoo Med product manual, so I'll quote a portion of it here (and then discuss the critical points that are reiterated over and over on this site):

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zoo Med ReptiTherm U.T.H. Instruction Book

Substrate: If the ReptiTherm® is on the bottom of the tank, you must use some type of substrate material. Good substrate choices are Zoo Med’s Repti Cage Carpet, Zoo Med’s Repti Sand or Zoo Med’s Repti Bark. If using very lightweight substrates such as pine shavings or sphagnum moss, you must put a layer of Zoo Med’s Repti Cage Carpet down first. This prevents snakes and burrowing reptiles from pushing substrate aside and resting on top of the glass directly above the heater, resulting in possible burns! Using newspaper, paper towels, or any similarly light product in place of a substrate is not appropriate with this kind of heater, and such use will void any and all guarantees and release Zoo Med from any liability for damage to product, property, or animals. Also, some liners or cage inserts have plastic or rubberized backings that could melt; use such items with caution. We recommend Zoo Med’s Cage Carpet for safe use with a ReptiTherm®. When using gravel or sand type substrates, it is important to use no more than 1.5” (3.81cm) depth of gravel/sand type substrates.

---

First, Zoo Med claims that using either their bark substrate or placing a layer of their cage carpet under a lightweight substrate will prevent snakes from resting on top of the glass. We know to not be true for our animals. Quite simply, a ball python will pretty easily move these substrates aside in their search for proper thermoregulation. What happens, according to Zoo Med, when a snake does find its way to the bottom of the enclosure directly on top of a normally functioning heat pad? Possible burns! What happens, according to Zoo Med, when other common lightweight substrates are used in their enclosures in combination with a normally functioning heat pad? Possible burns! What happens, according to Zoo Med, if you use their product other than a method as described in these instructions? They're not liable for anything (including possible burns)!

Zoo Med makes a good quality product intended for a large number of reptiles. The caveat here is that not all reptiles are created equal (different behaviors and husbandry requirements). We need to be able to recognize this and make appropriate decisions for our pets when the original product doesn't quite fit in with their specific needs. For ball pythons, an unregulated, normally functioning heat pad, in combination with an appropriate substrate, will never be considered a safe option. Zoo Med recognizes this and puts appropriate verbiage into their manual to protect themselves. We need to recognize this as well and put appropriate safeguards in place to provide the best care possible.

I think a big help would be educated staff in the reptile department in pet stores. When I first started I bought a normal from Aquatic Critter (they told me it was female, ended up being male) for around $200 a small glass tank and a large one for when "she would outgrow the small one. And a ton of other gadgets that would supposedly keep my snake alive. Not one of the things mentioned included a thermostat. When you first get into keeping reptiles it's like your only introduced to a small portion of it, the small portion that people tell you about. Then when you do do research for yourself you are introduced to a whole new world of morphs and thermostats, PVC cages, rack systems, Repticons, NARBC's all sorts of stuff that I never knew about when I first acquired my snake. I went without a thermostat for years, I have no idea how I went so long without a burn. It's just sad that the people selling reptiles are giving out all sorts of horrible information for people that don't really know any better and want to trust the person that seems experienced. It's like the only way to find reputable people to get information from is the internet. After you weed through all the bad info on the internet as well then you'll finally stumble upon the good lol. I think it would just be nice for people to start off getting all the info they needed from the source of where they squired their animal then their would be no need for them to search the internet for the info they should've been told in the first place. Sure people should do their own research before getting a new pet but still even the people that have still end up here with odd questions about feeding or heating or humidity. OH and also we are living in country that is completely ignorant to everything reptile. They feed you lies through the media they feed you lies at the pet shops, their is a small population of people that are actually educated and experienced when it comes to caring for reptiles. The idiots outnumber the smart by a landslide, and I just say that because once again weeding through all the idiots to actually get to small pot of gold of knowledge is kinda tough. So for me the answer is Educate Educate Educate. Educate yourself, educate staff, educate everyone. Much easier said then done lol.

tl;dr:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alexisfitzy

educate yourself

---

:gj:

Now that you mention it, I don't think I've ever seen a thermostat in a pet store before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jhill001

Now that you mention it, I don't think I've ever seen a thermostat in a pet store before.

---

I have, zoomed has a thermostat and a rheostat. They both have mixed reviews... I am using the rheostat it does the trick.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I really wish thermostats would be sold in pet stores around where I live, but it's so horribly far from civilization that the best I can hope to find is temperature/humidity gauges- that are entirely inaccurate. In 99% of cases that I see in new owners of royal pythons, corns, milks, kings and even boa species, the new owner is sold all this incorrect information from the pet store and honestly goes home thinking they have things right.

I don't think they mean to harm the animal, but I am not defending the lack of research, either. But again, I wish pet stores wouldn't send new owners off with an UTH, 20 gallon and plastic floor mat treating it as the ultimate care package. When I first bought my wild-type royal, the pet store told me (whom I visited regularly and even trusted) that the UTH was perfect for royals and the 20 gallon would hold in all the humidity needed. They told me the average humidity of a royal should be 75% and the heat 90 F. If I had listened to them, well, I wouldn't have been a very happy camper and neither my animal. But I guess what I am trying to say is that the blissful ignorance of new owners is only encouraged by pet stores (both local and corporate).

Going online and ordering the correct things for an exotic animal and even researching their real requirements is often over many people's heads. I actually had to treat my first belly burn in history today because of a malfunctioned thermostat, which I take complete responsibility over and went through the process to correct. She is now in a sterile, back-heat only, 32q quarantined "happy place" enclosure until it heals up. Had I been a new owner and not have been prepared, I think the first thing I would have done would have been to freak out and then consult the internet. It is because of that over amplified anxiety and lack of background knowledge that I believe we will see the question of belly burn treatment until the end of time. Unless pet stores actively try to sell the right products as well as the right information and new owners look to other forms of research long before the purchase.

Not to mention that most people working in pet stores probably think they know how to care for the animals because they clean the cages. Every pet store I've been to has the tall multi units they are all set up the same way. The bulbs are usually crap or have been going forever losing UVB ( lizards and such ). Basically it adds up to half of the animals being too cold and dry or two hot and humid or too humid and cold or some other combination. I had to tell the girl at petsmart to mist the ball pythons they have as they had lots of stuck shed. She had no clue what the heck was going on with them. Each care sheet they send home with people says they need a light and a heat pad along with the dirt substrate etc in order to sell as much stuff as they can.

The point though, is that if the goal of the pet store is to sell as much stuff as they can, why not upsell a thermostat and IR thermometer with everyone who comes in to purchase their first snake or even just a UTH? That way the store makes more money and hopefully animals don't get burned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

The point though, is that if the goal of the pet store is to sell as much stuff as they can, why not upsell a thermostat and IR thermometer with everyone who comes in to purchase their first snake or even just a UTH? That way the store makes more money and hopefully animals don't get burned.

---

Yeah, you'd think the pet stores would have caught on by now. It would save the animals' bellies and make the store more money as people (at least in my back-road city) would be dropping whatever it took to purchase a thermostat. Maybe if we sent a letter to Petsmart or another corporate pet business, they'd include some into their inventory. It would have to be a convincing letter or we'd have to buy a ton upfront.

Sigh. Thank God for the internet and the ability to ship real supplies.

My petstart and pet co here in SA have thermostats, not the greatest and over priced Zillas.
They do have them though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

My petstart and pet co here in SA have thermostats, not the greatest and over priced Zillas.
They do have them though.

---

None of ours do here in Louisville or the surrounding area. They have heat lamp thermostats- or what they call thermostats, but none for an under tank heaters. It's depressing.
Maybe that means you could order them online from Petsmart? Well never mind, that defeats the entire purpose of not ordering online but local availability. Crap, haha.

I completely agree about UTH needing a thermostat. I can't believe that they don't have one built in. If it's marketed for reptiles, and every reptile has different needs, why is it not built in? If it's not included for personalization why do the pet stores, and their care sheets not carry/note it? I live in the Kansas City area and called 12 pet stores. 2 had thermostats and neither of them were exact temps (low, med, high). Our family is new to snakes and I'm livid as to the horrible information pet stores give out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Painted

Maybe if we sent a letter to Petsmart or another corporate pet business, they'd include some into their inventory. It would have to be a convincing letter or we'd have to buy a ton upfront.

---

Exactly which thermostat or thermostats would you be petitioning for them to carry? One similar in quality to a Hydrofarm that many people say is too unsafe or one similar in quality to a Herpstat that many people say is too expensive? Just curious.

Also, here's a screenshot I just took of their website. Notice the first item that comes up when you go to the "Menu - Reptiles - Supplies - Humidity & Temperature Controls" page:
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...5f210a10f7.jpg

That particular one says it's online only. But, as Pit said, they do have at least one other one in some of their stores. It's not like they're clueless.

Thermostats are just a tough sell to the mass market - despite their importance. Unless the heat pad companies start recommending them in an obvious way on their packaging (and I don't see that happening), first time reptile owners will view them as just another added expense to their growing receipt total.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bluellies

Our family is new to snakes and I'm livid as to the horrible information pet stores give out.

---

You've done the right thing by coming here and trying to educate yourself. I wish more people would do the same before becoming pet owners.

Why rely on part-time retail sales people to be able to teach you everything you need to know about an animal that's going to rely on you for its care? Some can, and they are to be treasured - the rest may only know the basics. Don't learn the hard way which are which (and don't think for a second it has much to do with what store they work in - both kinds are found in big boxes and mom & pops alike).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric Alan

You've done the right thing by coming here and trying to educate yourself. I wish more people would do the same before becoming pet owners

---

This. When my daughter told me she wanted a snake I started researching. I let her know what the cost would be, that it was a lifetime commitment, etc. I then took her to buy supplies. This is when I found that many items were online only purchases. I'm very glad we live in the age of the internet and can double and triple check information.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Exactly which thermostat or thermostats would you be petitioning for them to carry? One similar in quality to a Hydrofarm that many people say is too unsafe or one similar in quality to a Herpstat that many people say is too expensive? Just curious.

Also, here's a screenshot I just took of their website. Notice the first item that comes up when you go to the "Menu - Reptiles - Supplies - Humidity & Temperature Controls" page:
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...5f210a10f7.jpg

That particular one says it's online only. But, as Pit said, they do have at least one other one in some of their stores. It's not like they're clueless.

Thermostats are just a tough sell to the mass market - despite their importance. Unless the heat pad companies start recommending them in an obvious way on their packaging (and I don't see that happening), first time reptile owners will view them as just another added expense to their growing receipt total.

---

Hello, sorry for the frighteningly late response, haha.

Hm, as for what I would ask for an in-store thermostat? I am honestly not sure, I'd actually prefer to take other's advice on that one. The only thermostat I've ever worked with is from Vivarium Electronics and it was a bit more expensive that what most people would look into at PetsMart. I'm kind of curious as to what cheaper thermostats are recommended in the hobby!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Painted

Hello, sorry for the frighteningly late response, haha.

---

No worries. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Painted

Hm, as for what I would ask for an in-store thermostat? I am honestly not sure, I'd actually prefer to take other's advice on that one. The only thermostat I've ever worked with is from Vivarium Electronics and it was a bit more expensive that what most people would look into at PetsMart. I'm kind of curious as to what cheaper thermostats are recommended in the hobby!

---

That's actually exactly my point. There isn't anything* between the reliable Herpstats/Vivarium Electronics of the world and the economical Hydrofarm-esque and rheostat-style options of the world.

Edit: * currently available in the hobby