Feeding issues

I've read quite a bit of information on ball pythons and their feeding problems, I have a female ball python, she's currently 68 grams, I bought her at a reptile show from a reputable breeder and she hasn't eaten at all, I tried assist feeding her today because she is starting to look thin, she wouldn't take it, she would spit it right back out. Is there anything I can do to get her to eat now that i've stressed her out with the assist feeding? Should I leave her alone another week? She has no stuck shed, temperatures are appropriate and humidity is in the correct range as well.

Thank you.

Correct temps and humidity do not mean much to me not knowing you or where you got your info from.

Can you give a general run down of your setup, enclosure size, temps, humidity, how big you hides are, type of thermometer used, how often you have been handling your BP, what type of food (including size) you have offered, how it has been offered. etc

I can tell you that for the majority of people that have feeding issue with snake so young are husbandry issues.

Have you contacted the breeder so HE can help you? Was the animal started?

Ideally and I always tell that to my customers who have issues getting their new snake to eat "you want to keep the animal as close possible to how they were kept before."

Here is what you can it's proven to work.

Get a 6 quarts tub, have a 1 inch layer of aspen (the aspen part is important as well) in the tub, use a 6 inches plastic flower pot saucer as a hide. Provide a hot spot of 86/88 (it's a small tub so don't go higher.

Wait a week (NO HANDLING, matter of fact no handling until your BP eats a few times for you) and offer a LIVE hopper mouse (drop the mouse in the tub and walk away, check back 15 min later)

If this does not work there are other methods but assisting is a last resort situation.


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Don't assist feed unless you have literally tried EVERYTHING that there is to try; live, at night, in the morning, in her cage, in a separate tub, wet, dry, brained, anything. Just try everything that you can before you try to assist feed because it puts unnecessary stress on the snake. How long have you had her? Has she eaten with you before? Did you give her at least a week to settle in? Have you handled her at all? If you have handled her, DON'T. Do not touch her at all until she has eaten for you at least two or three times. What size are you feeding? Live or frozen? Mice or rats? All of this comes into play when trying to fix a feeding issue.

Are you feeding frozen/thawed?
If you're feeding f/t, you can try thawing the prey in water then blasting it for a minute with a hairdryer to heat it up and using tongs to make it move around as if it's alive.

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Are you feeding frozen/thawed?
If you're feeding f/t, you can try thawing the prey in water then blasting it for a minute with a hairdryer to heat it up and using tongs to make it move around as if it's alive.

Meant to say that's in addition to what's already been posted... My computer did something really weird with this post.

Oh my lord , where to start !!?? Great minds think alike guys .... We must have all been typing at the same time :)

I'm presuming your set up and temps are correct .... I wouldn't consider assist feeding for a long while yet as there are so many better options IMHO.

First off l , I'd give her a 25 minute soak in a secure tub / rub in room temp water . I tried this a while back and my non- feeding Royal fed the next day ( she was a non feeder for 8 MONTHS !) . She also looked a hundred times better and much plumper so I think she may have been slightly dehydrated .

As she's probably distressed after being force-fed I'd leave her a week or 10 days before trying again . Are you warming the mouse /rat up before offering to the Royal ? Some will strike at it and others will only eat if you leave it in with them and leave them in peace for a few hours or even overnight . You can also try chicks or Multis as other options .

I'm sure others will offer some differing advice but that's what's worked for me in the past .

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First off l , I'd give her a 25 minute soak in a secure tub / rub in room temp water .

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Unnecessary, stressful and not recommended in this situation.

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You can also try chicks or Multis as other options .

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Mice are what is needed here trying to offer other preys is not gonna help it will only make it worse.

I am curious how much experience do YOU have troubleshooting young hatchlings and getting them to eat?

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Unnecessary, stressful and not recommended in this situation.

Mice are what is needed here trying to offer other preys is not gonna help it will only make it worse.

I am curious how much experience do YOU have troubleshooting young hatchlings and getting them to eat?

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She's not been eating and she's looking thin so she could easily dehydrated. .. Nobody here could possibly rule that out .
A short soak won't do her any harm and it won't be half as scary as the attempted force feeding she's been through already.

Surely they don't just eat mice in the wild so they're not-wired to eat many different types of small rodents / mammals is I understand , so why not try something different - as long as they leave a week or so in between attempts . Ive a mate who's Royal will only and has only ever eaten chicks ....that's why I suggested it .
I've had enough experience with youngsters but I'm not suggesting that I'm any kind of expert on anything ... I've not suggested anything that will cause harm to the little thing .imho,

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

She's not been eating and she's looking thin so she could easily dehydrated. .. Nobody here could possibly rule that out .
A short soak won't do her any harm and it won't be half as scary as the attempted force feeding she's been through already.

Surely they don't just eat mice in the wild so they're not-wired to eat many different types of small rodents / mammals is I understand , so why not try something different - as long as they leave a week or so in between attempts . Ive a mate who's Royal will only and has only ever eaten chicks ....that's why I suggested it .
I've had enough experience with youngsters but I'm not suggesting that I'm any kind of expert on anything ... I've not suggested anything that will cause harm to the little thing .imho,

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Deb suggested mice because mice are like candy to a bp. A small young bp will be more likely to accept a mouse than a chick. Plus a chick would be too big for a 68g hatchling, and mice are much more readily available than chicks for most people. When a hatchling is not eating you want to offer it something it will recognize as food. Offering a chick would just fit her stress out the snake.

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Originally Posted by AlexisFitzy

Deb suggested mice because mice are like candy to a bp. A small young bp will be more likely to accept a mouse than a chick. Plus a chick would be too big for a 68g hatchling, and mice are much more readily available than chicks for most people. When a hatchling is not eating you want to offer it something it will recognize as food. Offering a chick would just fit her stress out the snake.

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That's fair enough then .... it worked for my friend and thought it was worth mentioning .. Even though its refused those mice that are apparently candy to BP ..
I'm off .. I don't even like hearing them called Ball Pythons either when their correct name of Royals sounds so much classier .

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

That's fair enough then .... it worked for my friend and thought it was worth mentioning .. Even though its refused those mice that are apparently candy to BP ..
I'm off .. I don't even like hearing them called Ball Pythons either when their correct name of Royals sounds so much classier .

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It's okay, some things work for some royals, and some things work for others. It's just in this situation chicks wouldn't be the most ideal feeder. Also the op never actually specified what they have offered the snake or tried to assist feed. And you'll be hearing them called ball pythons a lot here on Ball Pythons.net. Sorry about that.

Okay, So after reading all of your suggestions here's what I have to provide, last week I offered a mouse and a rat both f/t and she didn't care for either of them, she is currently in a tub that is about 2 feet wide and a foot long I believe, she has two hides that are a tight fit for her but just tight enough to that she likes the security of them (or so it seems) Her hot spot is around 88-89 degrees and she has 50-55% humidity. Is there something I should do now? Try assist feeding the mouse which is a much smaller prey? Or should I just leave her alone until next week and try again?

The thought of assisted feeding makes me think of guantanimo :salute:

I couldn't get mine to east for weeks after I got him. Tossed a live pinkie in and he's been a strong feeder since. A couple live pinkies will get her attention I bet.

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Originally Posted by thehonestpirate

Okay, So after reading all of your suggestions here's what I have to provide, last week I offered a mouse and a rat both f/t and she didn't care for either of them, she is currently in a tub that is about 2 feet wide and a foot long I believe, she has two hides that are a tight fit for her but just tight enough to that she likes the security of them (or so it seems) Her hot spot is around 88-89 degrees and she has 50-55% humidity. Is there something I should do now? Try assist feeding the mouse which is a much smaller prey? Or should I just leave her alone until next week and try again?

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Try in a week. Assist feeding is a last resort. If this is a baby, try a live hopper mouse or rat fuzzy or pup. How long have you had the snake? How old is it? BPs can go a long time without food except babies who I would worry after a month. Adults can easily go 6+ month. Some just adapt faster than others. Just give it a week and try live.

Sorry I couldn't edit this in -

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Wait a week to feed her again. From what I understand you tried feeding her yesterday (Saturday)? As with what everyone else has mentioned, don't touch her for a while. Also, Deb mentioned the substrate, what kind are you using? Temps and humidity look good, but are only as good as your instruments of measurement. Assisted feeding is only going to stress her out more. Take a step back, deep breath, and hands off for a while. It's hard with a new snake we all know!

I have an infrared heat gun im using to measure the temperatures as well as a probed thermometer. Its on newspaper but I can switch it to aspen if thats necessary.

Heres a pic of her enclosure.

http://imgur.com/LsvgD1f

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...f945b88f6d.jpg

Maybe she dont like the reading material...
like others have said I would wait a week from last time you tried and let her be with no handling, change water and such, and maybe try a live mouse if you can, good luck!

edit..
also are you sure your F/T was completely thawed and heated up to correct temp?

Yes it was. This isnt my first snake. I have three others that all ate that day just fine. In those three weeks I forgot to mention that I knew no handling and I hadnt handled her at all until I assist fed her

I'm guessing that like most breeders, the one who sold you your little girl keeps the babies in a hatchling rack. So, your baby is used to being in a six quart tub. The enclosure you have there is way too big and open; that much space will stress out a baby and throw it off food.

If you can't do the six quart tub setup Deb suggested, then you really need to clutter up the one you have to make the baby feel more secure. You can use loosely crumpled newspaper, fake plastic plants, more hides - anything to take up all that open space.

At her size I doubt the breeder had managed to switch her over to f/t feeders yet. So, try a live mouse hopper or a rat pup. I would try the pup first - a hopper will run all over that huge tub! Just leave the live rat pup outside whatever hide your baby is using at that time, close the enclosure or put it back in the rack, and walk away for a while.

After she's taken a few live rat pups you can switch to f/t.

Okay. Thanks for the advice. Ill clutter the tub uo tomorrow morning and find out if theres anywhere around here that I can get live rat pups

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Originally Posted by thehonestpirate

Okay. Thanks for the advice. Ill clutter the tub uo tomorrow morning and find out if theres anywhere around here that I can get live rat pups

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As for clutter , are there any woods or forests near you ?
I collect small branches ( ideally covered in moss ) also if you see any pieces of bark peeling off tree branches or on the ground ... They are great as they curl up into tube like dens as they dry out ... I even throw in a few small leaves as they look great even when they dry out ..

Make sure to disinfect!!! NO bark either, carries bugs :)

Get her eating live first. Hoppy mice are a perfect size. Once she's gotten a good feed drive try ft again. But accept some BPs just won't eat ft. I have 6...and only one refuses to be switched. And agree with smaller tub...I remember mentioning this to a newbie before and getting slapped down hard, but whatever. It has worked for me with the babies I've gotten from breeders who use racks (most of them)


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Originally Posted by SnakeBalls

Make sure to disinfect!!! NO bark either, carries bugs :)

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Seriously .... How do they go on in the wild by the way ...

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Seriously .... How do they go on in the wild by the way ...

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In the wild they have parasites and bugs. Disinfecting anything you get from outside by either baking or freezing is common practice. Also, you're not just protecting your animals, you're protecting your house from bugs you probably don't want brought in.

Or a nice rash of mold in your tank :D

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

In the wild they have parasites and bugs. Disinfecting anything you get from outside by either baking or freezing is common practice. Also, you're not just protecting your animals, you're protecting your house from bugs you probably don't want brought in.

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I'm in the UK - what kind of bugs are you referring to ...

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Seriously .... How do they go on in the wild by the way ...

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They are NOT in the wild anymore. As a keeper you should be concerned with giving them a better life than the ball pythons would have in the wild.

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Originally Posted by thehonestpirate

Okay. Thanks for the advice. Ill clutter the tub uo tomorrow morning and find out if theres anywhere around here that I can get live rat pups

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Did you think to ask or do you have a way of contacting the breeder you bought your snake from to find out what it was eating.
A LIVE small hopper mouse will probably get down the hatch quickly.:gj:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

She's not been eating and she's looking thin so she could easily dehydrated. .. Nobody here could possibly rule that out .
A short soak won't do her any harm and it won't be half as scary as the attempted force feeding she's been through already.

Surely they don't just eat mice in the wild so they're not-wired to eat many different types of small rodents / mammals is I understand , so why not try something different - as long as they leave a week or so in between attempts . Ive a mate who's Royal will only and has only ever eaten chicks ....that's why I suggested it .
I've had enough experience with youngsters but I'm not suggesting that I'm any kind of expert on anything ... I've not suggested anything that will cause harm to the little thing .imho,

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

That's fair enough then .... it worked for my friend and thought it was worth mentioning .. Even though its refused those mice that are apparently candy to BP ..
I'm off .. I don't even like hearing them called Ball Pythons either when their correct name of Royals sounds so much classier .

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So much to pick apart here and I really don't have that much time....................
First off assist feeding and force feeding are two totally different methods. Force fed means there would be a meal in that snakes belly. Second the OP tried to assist feed so please read the whole post before recommending advice.
Why in any ones right mind would you possibly get your ball python that is well known to imprint on a food source stuck on something you don't have readily available? In the wild they eat when the opportunity presents itself, they are not in the wild any more. If you have a constant dependable supply of chicks, gerbils, ASFs, or hamsters AND don't ever plan to sell the snake to someone else then by all means feed whatever you want.
Hopper mice will get just about any hatchling balls attention. As long as it keeps moving and they stay interested in it, it will trigger a strike.
If you want to get totally technical please use Python Regius, other than that welcome to "Ball Python . Net"

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

So much to pick apart here and I really don't have that much time....................
First off assist feeding and force feeding are two totally different methods. Force fed means there would be a meal in that snakes belly. Second the OP tried to assist feed so please read the whole post before recommending advice.
Why in any ones right mind would you possibly get your ball python that is well known to imprint on a food source stuck on something you don't have readily available? In the wild they eat when the opportunity presents itself, they are not in the wild any more. If you have a constant dependable supply of chicks, gerbils, ASFs, or hamsters AND don't ever plan to sell the snake to someone else then by all means feed whatever you want.
Hopper mice will get just about any hatchling balls attention. As long as it keeps moving and they stay interested in it, it will trigger a strike.
If you want to get totally technical please use Python Regius, other than that welcome to "Ball Python . Net"

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First off I did read the post , that said I'm dyslexic ....


I'd also say that there's a very fine line between assist feeding and force feeding when the person doing it is a NOVICE ...

Also who says there's not a readily available source of day old frozen chicks ??? In the UK virtually every pet store has a freezer stocked with frozen rodents with at least one huge bag of frozen chicks ....they're also a fifth of the price of similar sized mice incidentally . As I said before feeding chicks to a long time non-feeding Royal worked a treat for my friend so I don't really know why you're showing so much animosity towards me .... I've only been trying to offer advice gained from my own experiences ..

I bid you all farewell .

I'll stick to the UK forums as they seem far more tolerant and indeed welcoming .

Just had to say LOL:rofl:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

First off I did read the post , that said I'm dyslexic ....


I'd also say that there's a very fine line between assist feeding and force feeding when the person doing it is a NOVICE ...

Also who says there's not a readily available source of day old frozen chicks ??? In the UK virtually every pet store has a freezer stocked with frozen rodents with at least one huge bag of frozen chicks ....they're also a fifth of the price of similar sized mice incidentally . As I said before feeding chicks to a long time non-feeding Royal worked a treat for my friend so I don't really know why you're showing so much animosity towards me .... I've only been trying to offer advice gained from my own experiences ..

I bid you all farewell .

I'll stick to the UK forums as they seem far more tolerant and indeed welcoming .

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Yeah, you keep saying, "in the UK...." and then throwing around a lot of one time use stuff that worked for your specific situation to a novice who has no way to tell apart good advice from bad. Then you defend it with "just my opinion!" You wonder why the more experienced keepers are shutting you down? Opinions get snakes dead. We need tried and true methods based on facts and backed up through multiple successes. A lot of people on here are state-side though, bro. Our pet stores don't carry feeder chicks, some of them don't even sell rats! We call them ball pythons, and just because one thing worked for this one guy you know for one specific circumstance, doesn't mean it should be offered as a tried and true under every circumstance. Most of the people that replied before you have several years experience breeding and raising babies, including finicky ones, that go on to become model eaters and great pets.

If being told that your "advice" is not helping is too rude for you, then yeah, go stick with some other forums.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Yeah, you keep saying, "in the UK...." and then throwing around a lot of one time use stuff that worked for your specific situation to a novice who has no way to tell apart good advice from bad. Then you defend it with "just my opinion!" You wonder why the more experienced keepers are shutting you down? Opinions get snakes dead. We need tried and true methods based on facts and backed up through multiple successes. A lot of people on here are state-side though, bro. Our pet stores don't carry feeder chicks, some of them don't even sell rats! We call them ball pythons, and just because one thing worked for this one guy you know for one specific circumstance, doesn't mean it should be offered as a tried and true under every circumstance. Most of the people that replied before you have several years experience breeding and raising babies, including finicky ones, that go on to become model eaters and great pets.

If being told that your "advice" is not helping is too rude for you, then yeah, go stick with some other forums.

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I promised myself I wouldn't get drawn into this kind of nonsense but being Aspergers I'm helpless and can't stop myself so -


I simply wrote .....

"As she's probably distressed after being force-fed I'd leave her a week or 10 days before trying again . Are you warming the mouse /rat up before offering to the Royal ? Some will strike at it and others will only eat if you leave it in with them and leave them in peace for a few hours or even overnight . You can also try chicks or Multis as other options ."

I can't really see a great deal wrong with any of he above .

Also , I really don't see how YOU have managed to change " You can also try chicks or multis " into YOUR interpretation below tbh

"just because one thing worked for this one guy you know for one specific circumstance, doesn't mean it should be offered as a tried and true under every circumstance"

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I'm in the UK - what kind of bugs are you referring to ...

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Nearly everywhere you go there are going to be isopods and mites in soil and plant matter. Some are harmless, some are annoying, and some can actually be a health risk for you or your snake. Fungal spores are also nearly everywhere and generally love the warm/moist conditions in snake housing.

Ah well ... New Years Eve !!!
I'll offer the olive (un- disinfected) branch to everyone and wish you all a HAPPY NEW YEAR !!

Sorry if I've annoyed anyone - my Aspergers sadly comes with bad points as well as the good ones :(

Still hasn't eaten, I offered a live pinky mouse as I couldn't get a hold of any other live rodents in my area, I also left a pinky rat in there for her, neither have been touched, should I assist feed a pinky mouse just to get some food in her? I could try and get different live prey at the reptile expo next weekend.

A pinky mouse is no where near the right size and not enough movement.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

A pinky mouse is no where near the right size and not enough movement.

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I knew it wasn't the right size but it was the only thing available in my area until the expo, There isn't a shop that sells anything larger than that live, only frozen.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

"As she's probably distressed after being force-fed I'd leave her a week or 10 days before trying again . Are you warming the mouse /rat up before offering to the Royal ? Some will strike at it and others will only eat if you leave it in with them and leave them in peace for a few hours or even overnight . You can also try chicks or Multis as other options ."

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Assuming you are talking about chickens, day old chicks are too big for a 68g hatchling. The ones I get average 35g in size. I'm not aware of any types of chicks being sold as food that would fit in a 68g hatchling BP.

Live hopper mice are almost always the answer in this situation. Right size, right amount of movement, right smell.

Did you ever try moving to a smaller tub or changing substrate? I think if you moved to a 6 quart tub (can be found at the dollar store!) you might get some feeding response. Pack the tiny tub with crumpled up news paper or fake plants. put a towel or something over the tub to keep it nice and dark.

I would avoid assist feeding. You are feeding in the home enclosure right? Have you contacted the breeder at all?

Couldnt contact the breeder but I found a snake owner with 15 years experience that was willing to buy her off me for a low price and he contacted me today saying she ate today

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Originally Posted by thehonestpirate

Couldnt contact the breeder but I found a snake owner with 15 years experience that was willing to buy her off me for a low price and he contacted me today saying she ate today

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Maybe you could ask them what they did ?

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

So much to pick apart here and I really don't have that much time....................

Why in any ones right mind would you possibly get your ball python that is well known to imprint on a food source stuck on something you don't have readily available? "

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Funnily enough .... Just found this little snippet ...

"Try offering a different prey type:

Offering a different prey item can really work . Many times I’ve fed a mouse or ASF to an animal that hadn’t eaten in 4 months and then the very next week it went right back on rats… it just needed a jump start although I only recommend a different prey item after you have exhausted other options. "