Giving Bad/Incorrect Advice

Lately I have noticed a lot of bad/incorrect advice being given.
Also, a lot of people that have recently got their first snake, and have had it less than a
couple of months, giving (not always correct) husbandry advice like they are an expert.
There are a number of very experienced snake keepers/breeders on this forum
that have a wealth of knowledge to share, but it is hard for a new snake owner to pick through
all the crap advice, and find the useful good advice. Just because you have owned a Ball Python
for two weeks, and have read a couple of care sheets, does not give you qualifications to diagnose a possibly
ill snake. And Yes, everyone has an "OPINION", but an opinion is not always a useful piece of information.

Below is a post written by another forum member, that gives some good guidelines to follow before you throw
out "OPINIONS" as facts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Here are some general rules to abide by when answering questions:

If you've read about something that works - resist the urge to post.

If you've been practicing something for a short period of time and are ASSuming it works - resist the urge to post.

If you've been practicing something for a long period of time, have had long term success with it - share it with the group.

If you practiced something for a long period of time and it worked, but no longer practice it - discuss it as a viable option.

Refrain from discussing anything you aren't 100% familiar or experienced with.

Then a lot of bad information and confusion will cease to exist.

People who never have done something, people who parrot bad advice and people who seek to convert people to only one way of doing things just need to shut up.

In most cases, there are many effective ways to meet the husbandry requirements of most captive reptiles. If you are intent in making sure everyone does things your way and your way only...then you better make sure you've got thick skin.

Remember - many of the things people advise against doing can be done...they just may take more skill and experience. That does not mean you can't do it.

When you aren't talking to someone face to face, it's very hard to determine tone, humor, etc. This makes forums prime breeding ground for a lot of bruised egos and hurt feelings. Any emotional or interpersonal baggage tends to come out fairly quickly.

People often perceive insult where there is none, mainly because of insecurity.

Likewise people often get deeply hurt because they bring their low self esteem to the forum.

The best advice I can give you is to refrain from talking when you don't have something to say.

Refrain from talking unless you are sure about what you're talking about...and leave your emotional baggage at home.

..and refrain from ASSuming your snake likes anything other than being properly kept and cared for.

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This is certainly nothing new. I'm not sure you can fault someone for honestly wanting to be helpful but I certainly understand your irritation and I wish that people would stick to giving examples from their own experience instead of parroting what they heard somewhere else.

People with little or no experience have been handing out bad advice since the beginning of time and just because you can now do so much more efficently on the internet doesn't mean that will be ending anytime soon.

I think that the best thing to do is if you see someone giving bad advice to simply give them what you consider to be the correct advice. As long as it's done in a polite and civil manner it will generate discussion and you can often find that there are many correct ways to do the same thing. Lively discussions can be a learning experience for everyone. Of course you'll often find people who are just plain stubborn and will not take advice from anybody, but time has a way of weeding those people out.

Although I agree with about 90% of OP comments

I have read some really useful links on this forum. To pick a recent example someone put a link about handling that changed my wife's confidence when handling our pets completely. Some of the links people post are not their own experience but they are the experience of very experienced keepers/breeders

I think what OP is really saying is without knowing the posters experience level, it is hard to give a weighting to whatever they are saying. It is like writing an academic essay and not referencing. If you do not know the source, or the quality of the source, it's hard to judge the likely usefulness of the information.

I do completely agree about 5 minute keepers stating what they have tried as though it is fact becoming an issue.

One thing I always say when I'm adding my opinion is that I'm new to everything snakes, so don't take my word for it. I think us "newbies" just like to be apart of everything and share ideas, but I do agree that they should act like know it alls.


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Don't forget there are also people who have kept snakes for years and STILL don't give good advice. Powerfeeding, breeding girls too young/small ect. Stuff you CAN do but isn't best for the animals. An animals health shouldn't be an opinion... Stuff like that bothers me personally... I HATE people who think it's OK and promote crap like that...

I think that's a problem that every forum has. On a frog forum I'm on newbies tend to make a lot of posts, but usually end them saying they don't have a lot of experience and to wait for a more experienced member before taking action. I kind of like that since it gives new members/keepers a way to comment and post but doesn't confuse ppl looking for advice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sweet4serpents

Don't forget there are also people who have kept snakes for years and STILL don't give good advice. Powerfeeding, breeding girls too young/small ect. Stuff you CAN do but isn't best for the animals. An animals health shouldn't be an opinion... Stuff like that bothers me personally... I HATE people who think it's OK and promote crap like that...

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Like so many youtube videos..

What gets me the most is ads on CL with a picture of a ball sitting on a heat rock :taz:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sweet4serpents

Don't forget there are also people who have kept snakes for years and STILL don't give good advice. Powerfeeding, breeding girls too young/small ect. Stuff you CAN do but isn't best for the animals. An animals health shouldn't be an opinion... Stuff like that bothers me personally... I HATE people who think it's OK and promote crap like that...

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You have seen this here? I cant remember seeing this type of information coming from the respected users here. We do get new members that will do things like this but they usually find the exit pretty quick.

I do understand what the OP is saying. While we always have some of this I will say that I noticed that we did get a surge of it lately. I will also say that many have become much better and are learning fast not to speak about what they don't know for sure.

A collective reorganization and overhaul of our communitie's knowledge base?

it's the internet and new keepers get excited and want to share that excitement by being involved. I always cross check everything by googling it. If you keep any animal (even a cat or dog) it's your responsibility to know how to keep it...

Some things to consider 1) most newbies are just excited to be part of this community so when they get a chance they want to take part. 2) newbies don't always give bad advice, often they are parroting what they were told by an experienced person on here. 3) if this forum as a whole continues to squash that enthusiasm and excitement then the new folks leave, many times to the detriment of their snake. Maybe a little 'nice' would go a long way to changing that. 4). Not all newbies are stupid. Although I am relatively new to this hobby I have a genius IQ and a identic memory. I lack experience but I learn pretty quickly, if I offer advice I try to reference the source and say I'm a newbie but this is what worked or didn't work for me. 5) if you want to keep this forum a closed and insular place where only the self proclaimed experts can comment then just let everyone know. Then the rest of us can clearly understand that we are not wanted. 6) on the other hand maybe using the extensive knowledge many of you have and actually be encouraging to the new folks might actually help expand this hobby and encourage new folks to buy snakes, thereby keeping you in business. Just my thoughts. I enjoyed this forum for a few months until I was literally chased away. I decided to just check it out yesterday when I was bored, and this was the first post I saw. SMH


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sweet4serpents

Don't forget there are also people who have kept snakes for years and STILL don't give good advice. Powerfeeding, breeding girls too young/small ect. Stuff you CAN do but isn't best for the animals. An animals health shouldn't be an opinion... Stuff like that bothers me personally... I HATE people who think it's OK and promote crap like that...

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Well, I hate it when people complain about how an animal is kept yet show no proof that what they don't like is actually bad for the snake. People who complain that rack systems are cruel and inhumane because it doesn't give the snake enough space, people who think feeding live is horrible because their snake could get hurt, people who insist that you MUST feed your snake in a seperate feeding cage, people who insist that your females MUST be at least 1500 grams to safely breed. A lot of these people are keepers with 2-3 years experience who have had success and so have developed the rigid mindset that their way is the ONLY correct way of doing a thing because that's what worked for them. Those of us who have been keeping snakes for much longer have learned that there are MULTIPLE paths to the same objective.

I'll give my experience being someone who's relatively new to keeping pythons (coming up on a year? Time really does fly)

As a starry-eyed new keeper, I mostly kept to posting pictures, asking questions, and chiming in on opinion-related threads whenever I actually posted, but stalked basically every topic I could otherwise. Knowledge is power, right? Eventually I got to take part in discussions on more sensitive topics, and help talk to people even newer to the hobby than myself, and I'll be 100% honest on this part; some experienced keepers are downright mean to noobs looking for advice. I saw it happen on a green iguana forum I would post to way back in the day, and it's always a shame to see it happen anywhere.

The situation is something like this;
A person buys a python on impulse or just doesn't do enough research before getting one. They post questions while admitting what seems to anyone who's owned bp's for more than a month to be glaring husbandry issues (heat rock, lack of thermostat, underfeeding, overhandling, the list goes on). As experienced keepers, it should be the responsibility of everyone here to correct those mistakes (because that person just doesn't know. They here asking questions, not bragging about mistreatment after all), however it should be done in a constructive way where the newer keeper learns. What so many people seem to do is chide that new keeper for buying a snake without being totally prepared, and some even go so far as to instruct them to take the snake back or accuse them of outright abuse (rare and usually not worded that way). This doesn't help the new owner, it doesn't help the snake, and this approach is just going to chase that person away from the forums and not inspire any husbandry changes.

I'm no longer a part of that iguana forum, nor do I have any desire to ever get another iguana and a huge chunk of that is because of the overwhelming amount of users there that called me a terrible owner. (I had posted asking a question about a newer animal while mentioning my roommate teasing my older iguana. My iguana was at my parents house while I lived in a new apartment, but people took that as I got rid of my iguana because my roommate didn't like it and therefore didn't deserve a new animal, even though the animal I was asking about wasn't even mine...) I always think the goal of forums should be to coach and try to inspire the warm and fuzzies about our cool and scalies, not to berate. Remember this before you criticize any new keepers enthusiasm; we were all new once, we all made mistakes, and most of the new members "parroting" information are repeating what we were told by most of you. Newer keepers like myself really look up to most of you, and we're trying our best to be like you guys. Have a little patience with us as we try to get there.

I have done this since I joined the site and still to this day continue to do so .... If you are seeking information on an important matter pertaining to your animals, I never act on ANY information I am offered until I have ---

A.) A response from a senior member (Someone who has
been an active member of the site for more than 3
years, has over 1000 posts, and has a reputation bar
that is respectable.)

B.) Input from a Moderator ( Most of the mod's have the
above requirements)

C.) A collaboration of responses that you can compare the
common ground from and decide what will work best
for your particular situation.

IMO - This is common sense ... Even if your the newest of noob's .... This is the WORLD WIDE WEB!!! If you jump on to any site pertaining to any matter and take the first advice offered to you ...... Well ..... Need I say more :twocents:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by calmolly1

Some things to consider 1) most newbies are just excited to be part of this community so when they get a chance they want to take part. 2) newbies don't always give bad advice, often they are parroting what they were told by an experienced person on here. 3) if this forum as a whole continues to squash that enthusiasm and excitement then the new folks leave, many times to the detriment of their snake. Maybe a little 'nice' would go a long way to changing that. 4). Not all newbies are stupid. Although I am relatively new to this hobby I have a genius IQ and a identic memory. I lack experience but I learn pretty quickly, if I offer advice I try to reference the source and say I'm a newbie but this is what worked or didn't work for me. 5) if you want to keep this forum a closed and insular place where only the self proclaimed experts can comment then just let everyone know. Then the rest of us can clearly understand that we are not wanted. 6) on the other hand maybe using the extensive knowledge many of you have and actually be encouraging to the new folks might actually help expand this hobby and encourage new folks to buy snakes, thereby keeping you in business. Just my thoughts. I enjoyed this forum for a few months until I was literally chased away. I decided to just check it out yesterday when I was bored, and this was the first post I saw. SMH


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Well said!


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