Heat panels in tank

was wondering everyone's opinion on Heat panels, the kind you mount inside the tank. I want to built my own cage out of melamine and don't want to use the ceramic heaters I'm using now. I plan on getting a thermostat, either a VE-300 or a Helix, not sure which one yet. It would be for a cage 4'-2'-2', roughly. I'm wondering how well they work? my place gets kinda chilly in the winter, hence the 3/4" melamine. I've never used anything on my snake besides the ceramic heaters and a UTH i used once by itself that did not work well for me at all even though it was the right size. I might inlay some glass in the bottom of the hotside and put some flexwatt or something on that also just in case. I figure with a thermostat it should be alright as long as my probes are placed right.

I have some rhp in my large pvc cages(48x24x15). My home stays at 68 and even cooler in the winter and trying to use the rhp alone it just didn't work for me. I had to start using a oil heater to heat the room.

Mine are not thick though so I bet you will have better results. Be carful as the taller your cage is the stronger rhp will need to be and the more heat it will have to pump out. You really want to stay under 18 inches. My 15 inch cages hold a brb and a big blood and I like that height. Any shorter and it would be hard for me to clean. I think 15 is a good median.

To mount my tstat probe I use a cable strap and super glue to mount it to the rim of the rhp. It appears the probe touches the rhp in the pic but it doesn't.

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/...psbd2f41b7.jpg

the lower height isn't a big deal, still in the planning stages anyway. Hmm that's a disappointment, i hoped they would of worked better then that. My female ball likes to climb, thats why i to shoot for height lol. Any suggestions on heating? I know with the VE-300 i can plug a power strip into it and it'll run off of the strip so i guess i could still use the ceramic with the domes but i really wanted to try to get away from them if at all possible. Trying new things and all that lol

just saw your addition. I live in an apartment so i can't really use an oil heater safely. Wouldn't keeping the probe that close to the heater mean the temp at the substrate level would be much cooler then what the prob reads?

Why would it not be safe to use the oil heater in a apt?


Having the probe as I do does not allow the snake to move it or cover it. I also prefer the look. As for getting the substrate the correct temp I used a IR temp gun and some time dialing it in I got the tstat set just where it needs to be. You can set the probe temp at any temp necessary to give you the correct temp you want on the substrate.

ah ok i get what ya mean lol. It's not a very big appartment, just has breezy windows, nothing i can personally do about it lol. Covering them in plastic helps but still gets a chill lol.

I'm thinking the panels alone may not be enough then according to your first post. Guess i could put circular holes in and just use the domes with the ceramic heaters, but i really wanted to get away from using them.

For reference, my ball is in a glass 50 gallon now and she needs more floor space so my heating experience is coming from a glass tank with the top screen covered in a foil thermal blanket with black duck-tape on top of that so it looks nicer.

i am open to other ideas or a combination of things to make sure the temps stay good.

I use a RHP exclusively to heat my Proline 48x23x14 for my red tail boa for the past 2 years and its been perfect. I use a Herpstat 1 and she has gone from a little 20 inch baby to now about a 5ft big girl. My house is set for 70f and I keep the Herpstat set to 87f with the probe hanging about 3 inches from the RHP on the back wall and about 2 inches from the substrate so my girl doesn't wrap up in it and cause a false reading. Btw im using a Pro product 65w RHP.

Also remember, RHPs work like a CHE but without the drying effect. They heat the air and anything directly under them. They don't work like a UTH. I put a flat rock directly under mine on the aspen to give a combo of belly heat and penetrating heat as well as it providing something to warm the air also. So using a CHE with a RHP would be redundant and pointless. You could use a UTH but if the ambient air is warm enough in the enclosure, you don't need belly heat. As for mounting it, if it is your sole means of heat, mount it on one side or the other, not in the middle as you still want to provide a cool side.

Oh and the reason I set it to 87f is that is what gives me a hot spot of 92f with the probe being 3 inches to the left of the RHP. You will also want a temp gun to fine tune yours if you go this route as each set up is different.

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Originally Posted by KMG

I have some rhp in my large pvc cages(48x24x15). My home stays at 68 and even cooler in the winter and trying to use the rhp alone it just didn't work for me. I had to start using a oil heater to heat the room.

Mine are not thick though so I bet you will have better results. Be carful as the taller your cage is the stronger rhp will need to be and the more heat it will have to pump out. You really want to stay under 18 inches. My 15 inch cages hold a brb and a big blood and I like that height. Any shorter and it would be hard for me to clean. I think 15 is a good median.

To mount my tstat probe I use a cable strap and super glue to mount it to the rim of the rhp. It appears the probe touches the rhp in the pic but it doesn't.

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/...psbd2f41b7.jpg

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That set up is good for an arboreal snake like a GTP or GTB but prefer my probe closer to the floor to get more of a reading there. But hey, if this works, it works. Everyone has their little ways of getting it to work as long as the end result is a happy warm snake and not a snake that looks like a burnt French fry :P

guess one of my fears is that I'll spend $60-$80 on one and it wont do all i need it to lol. The one I'm looking at is 80 watts. 12.5" x 22.5" x 1.75" that would go on the hotside longways with the 22" running front of the enclosure to the back. Thats why i got in mind anyway. Running on a thermostat of course. i want the enclosure itself to be 2' deep so i know that'll leave less then an inch in the front and back but I'm kinda ocd on making sure I've got plenty of heating options for her if there's a really cold winter or something oddball happens lol. would that be a little much ya think? like i said, only have experience with using the ceramic heaters. I just don't like the domes sticking out of the top of the tank lol.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

That set up is good for an arboreal snake like a GTP or GTB but prefer my probe closer to the floor to get more of a reading there. But hey, if this works, it works. Everyone has their little ways of getting it to work as long as the end result is a happy warm snake and not a snake that looks like a burnt French fry :P

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Its ETB for Emerald Tree Boa, not GTB.

As for the placement it is the same principle for both ways. My way is cleaner looking and keeps the probe in the direct path of heat. Your way leaves a probe dangling on the side and I don't like that. It doesn't look finished to me. I use rhp's for both terrestrial and arboreal cages(gtp, blood, brb). My Blood Python is much thicker than a few inches and trying to dangle the probe in her cage would leave her leaning on it and blocking it or have it to high up the wall. I use the same mounting method in both types of cages and it works great. My BRB had a really dressed out cage with fake and real plants, logs, hides, and soaking tub. If I tried to use the dangle technique the back wall was shielded by all the décor and the only good way to do it was to use my method. Doing it that way gave me just what I needed.

As I said the principle and the procedure to dial them in is the same and it requires a temp gun. The only real difference is how it looks. People do things different to get the same results but I don't like how you try to tell others my advice is not going to be correct for their application when it is. Im not guessing here as I do it so I know from experience.

i guess i could always use the heat panel and a UTH or heat tape or something mounted on glass inlaid into the bottom of the enclosure if i was really worried about it. anyone know if i can run both of those using a VE-300 thermostat?

I have both a rhp and a uth in each of my large cages. I run it with a Herpstat4 and all is well. As long as the power draw of each device added together does not overload the tstat it should be fine.

You could also use a thinner piece for the floor so the uth can be mounted under each cage.

Also another thing to note is the rhp will cause heat on top of it so it heats the cage floor above it. I had to turn the rhp's down because they were creating a hotspot in the tank above them that was higher than I wanted for my BRB and Blood. Since your building yours you may want to put a thicker foot on each cage to separate them a bit more than mine are. Mine have about 1/8 of an inch.

i could do that. i was just going to router in a piece of glass into the floor, that way I'm not losing any stability but I'd still want a good gap from floor of the enclosure to the bottom of whatever its sitting on if I do the UTH thing also. Never used a thermostat for reptiles before so not sure quite how they work yet. Would i need a herpstat 4 even if I'm only running 2 different types of heating units? I poked around that website before looking at the different models and such but got lost in all the features lol.

Well that depends on what you want to control. You could have one outlet control the uth and one control the rhp so a Herpstat2 could work. If you wanted to run other things like lights or a rack or whatever the Herpstat4 would be a great choice.

ah ok awesome, lights i can always run on a timer on a separate outlet not a big deal. I'm mainly worried about the thermostat and how to heat the sucker. It doesn't help I don't have the experience with using anything besides ceramic heaters and a lot of temp/humidity probes lol. Just don't like spending this kinda money for stuff I've never used before. She's my only snake and want to make sure I'm not spending money on things that ain't going to work for me lol. Thanks a lot guys, gave me some great food for thought. I'll prolly post another thread once i finalize all the stuff and figure out how I'm actually gonna set this thing up to see if i missed anything. You guys are great lol

just had a thought i keep forgetting about. I'm so use to this glass tank, the air temp is much different then the surface temp but in an actual enclosure i wont have nearly the air flow problem that glass tanks have. So in theory it should be easier to set up a hotside/coldside heat differential with proper substrate surface temps then in the glass tank I'm currently using. That sounds about right, right??

and how big of a heat panel would i need for a 4'w-24"deep-18"tall enclosure? I'd prolly be using it with a UTH prolly the 50-60 gal size under the hotside of the cage. Would the panel just need to go over the hotside also or do i need it running the entire lenth of the cage?

In theory it should be better. I can not guarantee it though.

I contacted ProProducts and told them what I had and what I wanted to do and they set me up with the panels I needed for my application.

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Originally Posted by KMG

In theory it should be better. I can not guarantee it though.

I contacted ProProducts and told them what I had and what I wanted to do and they set me up with the panels I needed for my application.

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hmm glanced at their website lol they look pricy lol but I'll give them a call when i have a chance and hope it doesn't burn my wallet lol didn't see any prices on the link i found on them.

I ordered mine and had them drop shipped to my cage builder who installed them and then sent them to me. Their panels are very nice.

they look slick I'll give them that lol just hope the price isn't to high. It'll at least give me an idea on what I'm looking at though size wise. Hope they give free quotes haha

Roaland, hope this helps some. I'm a professional cage builder , I live in an older house with drafty windows and my house temp stays around 68 -70 in the winter. I built my cages out of 3/4" plywood ( key factor ) I am using sliding glass doors in the front that I use 1/8" rubber bumpers as stops. No other air vents. Doors are not air tight so this provides enough fresh air. My cages are 2'×2'×4' same as what you are wanting. When I built my cage I raised the floor 1" to allow for a UTH on an inlay piece of glass. I am using a PH3 65 watt panel from pro products. ( I believe I paid about close to $100.00 with shipping ) I am running a herp stat 4 as my thermostat. ( I have a triple stack of cages so each cage gets 1 probe and the last output I use to control my led lights. ) for a single cage a herp stat 2 would work fine ( leave you an output to play with ) my set ups have been working flawlessly for past 2 years with just the RHP. I did not need to add the uth. Here are a few key points when using RHP..... things happen very slowly with them. Don't expect to plug them in and get immediate results. It takes days for the Temps to stabilize and to bring the 3/4" cage material up to even temps. Be patient! Also invest in a quality panel. Remember this is an investment and good panels are a one time buy. They will last 50 years or so. Plus if you are used to running ceramic heaters on full ( 100 watts × 24 hours ) you will see a HUGE saving on electric bill with 65 watt panel on proportional setting on your thermostat. ( probably paying for the panel with the saving in a year or two ) mounting the thermostat probe is controversial but can be mounted the way KMG did or closer to the floor. Both ways work the same in reality it's just a matter of what Temps you want to see on your display. ( dialing in temps can be tricky and is another topic ) ask and most members can help with that. So what you seek to do is possible it's just a matter of "taking the leap " so to say. Also humidity stays much better in this style cage vs open glass "fish tanks " I spray once a day or so to stay in the 50-60 % range.

That's very helpful! It will be my first enclosure so I'm just not sure what to expect out of it lol. Those panels last that long? Did not know that lol. The UTH I was looking at was from exotera, it's low watts so would I have to hook that up to the thermostat also? Also when cleaning out my current glass tank I lose temps like crazy and I wait to put my girl back in till it normalizes. How long do those things take to get the tank back to safe temps after a cleaning? Thanks a lot for the info! Elated a lot of my fears lol.

Roaland, yes I was told that the panels I bought were designed to have a 50 life expectancy. They are warrantied for 10 years so that in itself says something. If you do end up using an uth it is always good practice to put heating devices on a thermostat. What I like about the herpstat brand that some people dont know is that they are designed to turn off in a failsafe mode if they malfunction. Peace of mind that your animal will never suffer a burn. Ok as for losing temps quickly,remember things happen very slowly . Yes when you open the doors you will let cold temp in and temps will fall, however because of the 3/4 materials are acclimated your recovery will happen much faster than with 1/4" glass.

Ah yes that makes sense, thanks a ton! I'll prolly get a UTH even if I don't end up using it just to have something extra for a just in case moment. Maybe throw some heat tape insulation around the edges of the glass inlay to help hold the heat better. Thanks a million guys, really helped me ease my mind a little. Note I just gotta save up for this stuff haha

im fairly new to owning snakes. ive had a few in the past, but i hadnt done the research. i was young and only looked at the basics. but im looking forward to purchasing a spider in the next year or so, have been doing research like crazy the past few days. i have a 20 gallon tank at home, and an under tank heating pad with an over head light. my question is, if i have both the heating pad, and a heat lamp, should i put them both on the same side of the tank? mind you i still have to purchase everything, which is why im giving myself a year minimum, but i want the absolute best for my potential new baby. within budget of course. doing the best with what i have if you will. thanks in advance for any advice.

You definitely want then both on the same side for the basking spot. Using both though if watch your temps to make sure they don't get to high. What I did was get a temp gun to use along with your thermometers to make your your surface temp isn't higher then your probes are telling you and with using both you may find during certain times of the year you may not even need the UTH. Just watch your surface temps and you'll be fine[emoji4]

Honestly, if you are getting the Proline cage, you wont need a UTH. Like I said, im using a 48x23x14 Proline and I got the PH3 65 watt Pro Product RHP with a Herpstat 1 and I can get the inside temps to 92 degrees if I want and that's not even putting a 1 inch insulation sheet down between the cage and the table its on since Bob told me being in a finished basement even with cement flooring with carpet on it, the heat can still travel through the bottom of the cage and to the floor. So I bet if I used the insulation on the flooring of the cage, I could hit even higher temps(not that I want to) but my boa likes it set to 87f. And that's with a house set at 70f in Washington state. So personally I wouldn't worry about anything except a RHP and thermostat to control it obviously.

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Originally Posted by Ari918

im fairly new to owning snakes. ive had a few in the past, but i hadnt done the research. i was young and only looked at the basics. but im looking forward to purchasing a spider in the next year or so, have been doing research like crazy the past few days. i have a 20 gallon tank at home, and an under tank heating pad with an over head light. my question is, if i have both the heating pad, and a heat lamp, should i put them both on the same side of the tank? mind you i still have to purchase everything, which is why im giving myself a year minimum, but i want the absolute best for my potential new baby. within budget of course. doing the best with what i have if you will. thanks in advance for any advice.

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For my bp, I put a ceramic heat emitter in the middle of my 30 gallon with the UTH on 1 side. The CHE is just to heat the air a bit to keep at least 78f on the coolest corner. The UTH is for the heat more or less. Best thing is look for the sticky in "basic husbandry" section which shows a step by step to setting up a 20 gallon.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Honestly, if you are getting the Proline cage, you wont need a UTH. Like I said, im using a 48x23x14 Proline and I got the PH3 65 watt Pro Product RHP with a Herpstat 1 and I can get the inside temps to 92 degrees if I want and that's not even putting a 1 inch insulation sheet down between the cage and the table its on since Bob told me being in a finished basement even with cement flooring with carpet on it, the heat can still travel through the bottom of the cage and to the floor. So I bet if I used the insulation on the flooring of the cage, I could hit even higher temps(not that I want to) but my boa likes it set to 87f. And that's with a house set at 70f in Washington state. So personally I wouldn't worry about anything except a RHP and thermostat to control it obviously.

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I was gonna build a cage, 3/4" melamine. Guess I could just leave the bottom alone and dial the panels in while it's still cold outside. If need be I could just cut out a whole and lay some glass just caulk it down if I really needed the extra push. I wanna run the enclosure without the snake in it for a few weeks anyway to make sure I know what I'm doing since I've never used a thermostat for reptiles before.

I never even thought about insulation on the bottom. That's a great idea. I want a 2" gap anyway, that'd be perfect for stapling some down. Great idea sauzo [emoji2]

What kinda boa you got Sauzo?

My enclosure is 4' x 2' x2', I'm using the RBI 80w rhp. I have my thermostat probe mounted halfway down. It keeps the temp perfect. We've had a cold winter and the Temps never fluctuated. I also have 11" flexwatt running 1/3rd the length of the tank to keep the substrate a little warmer.