What is the most humane way to "brain" a rat?

My female ball python will not even touch f/t but will pound f/k and I know that I am not doing it in the most humane way so what is the best way to do it? I usually put the rat in a bag and slam it on the counter or wall or something and it usually takes a few hits to finally finish. And yes I know that this is barbaric so please refrain from bashing me for how I feed my snakes because I am trying to do it better. So how do you guys that feed f/k do it?

I think you are confusing braining with dispatching the rat before you feed it. Braining is where you crack open the skull to expose the brain, sometimes a useful technique in snakes that are not feeding, but whatever it takes to dispatch the rat so it doesn't harm your snake will work..carry on :gj:

You could try breaking the neck? I feel like that's one of those things that could be inhumane if you don't know what you're doing, but as it is I feel like it'd probably be more humane than the current method you're using. This is just speculation as I've never pre-killed or disabled my live feeders. I usually just wait with a pair of tongs to put into the prey's mouth so it can't bite the snake as it's being constricted.
I'm sure someone else with more experience can answer this better.

It is barbaric and inhuman and you have NO BUSINESS feeding pre-killed or f/t if you cannot euthanize the prey HUMANELY which means CO2 or cervical dislocation.

Owning snakes means having respect for the prey item also, wonder why people look at us snake owners the way they do, look no further, throwing rats on walls, bashing their hear several times on a table, using hammers, pulling teeth etc.....such a positive image :rolleyes:

Learn to dispatch the prey and maybe people will refrain from bashing, educate yourself https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Doc...euthanasia.pdf

As for braining it is done post mortem so I fail to see why at this point you want to do this humanly when you fail do do the rest humanly???

I just watched a bunch of cervical dislocation video's, and CO2 chamber video's.

The cervical dislocation, when it's done by somebody that is good at it, kills them instantly. (pretty good and humane way to kill )
I also came across a couple video's where it didn't go all that well......... :(

Now the CO2 chamber videos were a different story ...... seems like there is always one
or two rodents that just hang on and keep gasping. Some suffering for more than a full minute. (not all that humane in my opinion)

I feed my snakes live prey. There have been times where the snake has grabbed the rodent wrong,
and did not get a good wrap, and the rodent squeeks, and kicks for a good 30 seconds before it dies. (guess feeding live is not all that humane either)

I have also committed the barbaric act of whacking a rodent against a wall . (killed them instantly)

So I guess if you are trying to kill a rodent in the quickest way with the least suffering, I would say that cervical dislocation,
and wall whacking are the 2 most humane methods. Watching the poor things gasp and suffer in those CO2 chambers is
definitely not all that humane.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mohawk

So I guess if you are trying to kill a rodent in the quickest way with the least suffering, I would say that cervical dislocation,
and wall whacking are the 2 most humane methods. Watching the poor things gasp and suffer in those CO2 chambers is
definitely not all that humane.

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I'm certainly glad you're not a veterinarian.

I'm a biologist, and many people I know have worked in labs that euthanized mice/rats using CO2 chambers. Everyone I've ever talked to says the same thing you did about CO2 chambers not being very humane.
Except when my BP doesn't get a good hold on the feeder, I believe that letting her constrict them live is probably the quickest death even if it's a violent one. My biggest problem with whacking the rat against something is that I imagine the chance of messing up and just causing a lot of pain is much greater than with cervical dislocation (the phrase I meant to use in my first post instead of neck-snapping) or CO2 chambers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

I'm a biologist, and many people I know have worked in labs that euthanized mice/rats using CO2 chambers. Everyone I've ever talked to says the same thing you did about CO2 chambers not being very humane.

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Have you done it yourself?

I can tell you that everyone you talked to does not do it right and too much CO2 is filling the kill tank at once hence the gasping and panic.

When done right they will slowly fall asleep, this can be achieve with a CO2 regulator, than again people need to educate themselves. :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Have you done it yourself?

I can tell you that everyone you talked to does not do it right and too much CO2 is filling the kill tank at once hence the gasping and panic.

When done right they will slowly fall asleep, this can be achieve with a CO2 regulator, than again people need to educate themselves. :rolleyes:

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I've not done it myself; using animals in labs is actually the reason I decided to specialize in plants, but I do know a number of people who went into medical research or a similar field, so that's where I was getting that info from. I can see how CO2 chambers might get out of whack in a large lab with different people working on the same equipment.

That makes me feel better about buying f/t at any rate (I'm assuming they use CO2 chambers for that?). Now if only I could convince my BP that she can eat something she didn't kill...:cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

...people need to educate themselves...

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You mean by actually reading the AVMA document you posted already? Blasphemy! ;)

Co2 is cheap dirty and ineffective for humane inert gas asphyxiation. If you don't use argon or nitrogen it is cruel. There is no other way to look at it. Science has no opinion. This is going to be one of those terrible topics I must choose to grit my teeth over. The world is flat. Evolution never happened.

Controlled atmosphere killing (CAK) or controlled atmosphere stunning (CAS) is a method for slaughtering animals such as chickens by placing the animals in a container in which the atmosphere lacks oxygen and consists of an asphyxiant gas (one or more of argon, nitrogen or carbon dioxide), causing the animals to lose consciousness. Argon and nitrogen are important components of a gassing process which seem to cause no pain, and for this reason many consider some types of controlled atmosphere killing more humane than other methods of killing.^[8][9] If carbon dioxide is used, controlled atmosphere killing is not the same as inert gas asphyxia, because carbon dioxide at high concentrations (above 5%) is not biologically inert, but rather is toxic and also produces initial distress in a number of animals.

On topic. I hold the animal by its tail and swing It hard and fast with a quick jerking motion at the wall. Try to focus all the inertia on the neck for its breaking point. Time from out of box to unconscious and being consumed is less than 5 seconds. I can link up 100 different sources about how using Co2 is terrible. AVMA recommends it because it is cheap. They don't have to source anything but c02. Which is cheap. Effective sure but so is a whole list of things other than choking them to death after the seize up from a panic attack. I already got in trouble for discussing this to the Super moderator. Facts are facts. Nazis used pure co2. Ya know, because it's humane and all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foolish1

I already got in trouble for discussing this to the Super moderator. Facts are facts. Nazis used pure co2. Ya know, because it's humane and all.

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Not sure what my Super Mod status has to do with anything???? I am a member and always will be trust me you will know when I post as a mod ;)

You got into trouble really what is that supposed to mean? Oh wait because I call you out on your methods? You call that getting in trouble...careful when making accusations in public you better be able to back them up.

Quote:

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Nazis used pure co2

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Again comparing apple and oranges we are talking about rats and proper Euthanasia methods per American Veterinarian association. And again CO2 is effective and very human when done properly, I can't help it if you are not capable of comprehending that it is humane.

At this point in the last month I have seen you chase away so many people and jump down their throats. I am not causing problems. I literally just want to discuss fact vs fiction. Ask anyone who knows chemicals, bio Chem or even plain physics. Co2 is cruel. Apples and oranges. We are discussing any oxygen breathing creature being force-fed co2. Every encounter between us Deb makes me want to leave this community. I am an active member of probably 20 forums. Never have a single issue. I can give you my usernames for everywhere. I haven't had a single issue like this. As much as I want to leave here because I instantly get scolded, I feel like I have information to share. Sauzo knows about the Mr Buddy heater now. I wanted to leave 4 days ago, glad I didn't because maybe he will save his snakes now one day in the future because of my post. Funny enough in the thread about heaters guess what the main concern was.

Asphyxiation from co2.

Does this have to be my final post? I honestly just wanted to contribute what I knew to be true after days of research.

This is supposed to be a community board. Stop making it personal. I know that 15 year old girl was stubborn 3 days ago. But we chased her away pitchforks and torches style. Maybe everyone needs to step back from the keyboard. Nobody is helping when they turn it personal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foolish1

This is going to be one of those terrible topics I must choose to grit my teeth over...Nazis used pure co2. Ya know, because it's humane and all.

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Pot - meet kettle. Any credibility you hoped to gain was instantly lost when you started comparing anything in this hobby to genocide. Seriously...

I say in trouble because out-of all the moderators who have seen my post. You gave me an infraction. Nobody else did. It's like when you are mean to a cop one night drunk. I am on your list now.

While reading about inert gas asphyxiation for animals it brought up the introduction of using argon and nitrogen from now on. Nazi doctors used pure co2. Veterinarians and doctors have since discovered if you use argon or nitrogen it is a painless death. All I was saying is that information changes over time. What might have been done in the past is no way what we shoukd do now. I support inert gas asphyxiation if the proper elements are used at the right ratios. I wasn't just trying to bring up Nazi for shock value. I have been looking into this for days. When the original discussion happened in started reading endlessly to figure out if what I thought was true or not. I love being wrong. That is just a chance to learn about being right.

Wasn't bringing up genocide. I was using an example of organic creatures being administered co2. I apologize if people took offense to that. I was just giving examples of when co2 was used improperly.

I just searched the forum for AVMA and spent awhile reading it. I'm interested in learning more about this even if it doesn't really apply to me atm.

I'm not averse to educating myself on all aspects of the animals I keep. I just thought mentioning the experiences of people who regularly work with CO2 chambers might be of interest. Sharing that doesn't come from being uneducated or unwilling to do my own research, it's just the accounts of people who would have no reason to lie about it.

Since this thread kind of took a different direction since I last posted, I'll just say I believe Deborah when she says CO2 chambers can be used effectively and I'm kind of disheartened by that fact that, from what I've heard they may not always used that way in professional settings.

I never disagreed it doesn't work. The science says pure co2 causes shock stress choking and convulsions. I guess I try and think of what would I want. To be choked to death or have my brain stop sending signals instantly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foolish1

I say in trouble because out-of all the moderators who have seen my post. You gave me an infraction. Nobody else did. It's like when you are mean to a cop one night drunk. I am on your list now.

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Wow, do you realize how many warnings and infractions I give on a weekly basis? I hand them out to people I agree or disagree with, to customers, friends, even to paying members and people who pay to advertise here.

You are no one special sorry, you're just another member I disagreed with (trust me there are quite a few) who now plays the victim card because I so happen to also enforce the rules....laughable.

I guess now I can't infract people who I disagree with anymore, that's gonna put me out of my mod duty for sure. :rolleyes:

There goes everything meaningful I typed skipped and straight to personal attack . let's stay on topic shall we?

Let me know if you want me to start a new thread about me that way we can stay on topic in both spots.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foolish1

There goes everything meaningful I typed skipped and straight to personal attack . let's stay on topic shall we?

Let me know if you want me to start a new thread about me that way we can stay on topic in both spots.

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Hello kettle.

Oh I am sorry :rolleyes:

So YOU mention me in your very first post (not the opposite way around), insinuate that you got in trouble with me because we disagreed but I make it personal??? :confuzd: I am just answering your post, you seriously do not think that I am just gonna be silent while you are mentioning me and accusing me of being bias do you?

Anyway have fun with your conspiracy theory and people out to get you ;)

Well, getting back to the OP's ?

One easy humane way to kill a rat with an easy DIY style would be to use CO, Carbon Monoxide.

Hook a hose up to your tailpipe of your car with the engine running, and have the other end of the hose going into s closed box holding the rat, which will slowly put him to sleep.
Of course, do this outside.


I don't have a science degree. If I'm missing something here, please enlighten me.

Well to the OP, who I am sure got scared off again, I think the whole bag and counter thing is wrong. Try and do what I said. Or if you want to be all sciencey look up how to properly snap their necks. When it comes time to butchering here on the farm chicken necks snap quick. They have more muscle and meat to them. Grab some leather gloves and figure it out in guess. Don't feel bad for the animal. Known it is serving it's purpose in life by feeding your snake. I love my turkeys to death. But Thanksgiving morning they have fulfilled their life goal and fed my whole family and friends. That's beautiful.

I said super moderator Deb. I never wanted to mention you until you jumped in. I hate when discussion turns personal. Nobody gains anything. No knowledge is spread. Information doesn't get advanced. I apologize to the community for any off topic things I posted. I am very passionate about the truth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foolish1

There goes everything meaningful I typed skipped and straight to personal attack . let's stay on topic shall we?

Let me know if you want me to start a new thread about me that way we can stay on topic in both spots.

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Foolish1, you have give great information and insight. However, to me, an outsider looking in; you launched the first attack, and out of nowhere man.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reinz

I don't have a science degree. If I'm missing something here, please enlighten me.

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You're missing the part about killing your snake from the other toxins in exhaust fumes. Mmm... Smog...

Fair enough. Last thread my views were dismissed. I wanted to mention that before I typed. I didn't say names from the start. I said titles. I didn't mention the manager that screwed me for hours. I just brought it up that it happened i guess. Damn fire sign I am. I burn with rage but can be instantly extinguished. I do apologize for my off topic posts and if I did start the first round of punches THIS fight. But it's the whole battle and war type thing.

To the op. They have very small necks with no muscles and fragile bones. It's easy to do. Quick and painless..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

You're missing the part about killing your snake from the other toxins in exhaust fumes. Mmm... Smog...

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Oh I forgot, those 300 parts per million!

The same ones I have been breathing for over 50 years.

Eric i wanted to mention that earlier. I was going to compare a human intentionally hurting themselves by breathing in car vapor. But that I realized is apples and oranges. Cars burn so many other chemicals and elements. Agreed about the smog and everything else. But yeah. People who go the car route, it's not a pretty scene. I guess I have a lot of first hand experience in many aspects of life. I've been around the beauty of life and death for so long I have a different view of it. Grass when it's cut release a smell that warns other grass is dying. When it decomposes micro life feeds off its cellulose and nitrogen then the cycle continues. Life and death. Beauty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reinz

Oh I forgot, those 300 parts per million!

The same ones I have been breathing for over 50 years.

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I'm almost hesitant to ask, but oh well: You've been in a closed environment sucking in exhaust directly from the pipe for 50 years?

He likes to party. I'm down. Jokes.

Foolish1 - big of you to apologize.

I was unaware of previous threads and content. I understand your frustration.

Hey, I've been around!:)

Same discussion. I chime in on page 2.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Ugh-help/page2

Originally Posted by Foolish1http://ball-pythons.net/forums/image...post-right.pngI drive 2 hours for food twice a week. My babies like the heart still beating. I hold the mouse by its tail and smash it against the wall quick to break their neck. That way they don't injure my friends. A lot of time the twitching from the neck break stimulates feeding response. If she still won't eat, take her out for a half hour while someone else cleans everything I'm her cage. They won't eat if it smells like their filth. If they smell it prey smells it so it shuts them off. Clean everything out, add a hide for her. Break the mouses neck, throw it in tank, put your baby in the tank and cover it with a towel for 2 hours. I did this step by step and broke a 3 week no eating habit on my smallest girl. Cheers.





Not posted by Deb.

Really??? You smash the poor mouse up against the wall!!! There are far more humane ways to kill a prey item. This is just barbaric. Please find better ways to euthanize a mouse. To the OP, please DO NOT do this to a live mouse. Stick with other advice you have been given

My response

Barbaric? I run an organic farm. I love and care for every one of my animals. Snapping it's neck is the fastest way for it to not feel pain. Takes literally a half a second before it's stops sending electrical impulses. I would rather break the mouses neck quick than have it take a chunk out of a two thousand dollar snake. Barbaric! Haha. Send them off to the showers for gassing. That's humane right. Last time humans did that everyone was really happy. Please.

My first interaction with Deb.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/image...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Foolish1 http://ball-pythons.net/forums/image...post-right.png
Honestly blown away right now. There's proper protocol for humanely killing feeder mice? I understand not torturing them, but the amount of time they realize they have been picked up to the time they are unable to process thought or pain is within a second. Ever been chocked by someone trying to kill you? I have. It is very fun to say the least. Jokes. You literally gasp and fight for every last breath hoping it isn't your last. Hell when it's my turn to go, PLEASE break my neck. Don't let me suffer.

Edit. Spelt unable wrong.



Be blown away all you want smashing an animal's head against a wall is inhuman.

You either let nature take it's course or you respect the prey and euthanize it humanely this means cervical dislocation (only people efficient at it should attempt it) and CO2

My reply quoted with her response.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/image...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Foolish1 http://ball-pythons.net/forums/image...post-right.png
Let nature take its course on captive born and raised animals. Okay hun. I don't want to derail this thread and I am not trying to offend. The English method of killing chickens is a quick neck break. Wonder why.



Number 1 not your Hun number two read again, cervical dislocation is considered human not throwing an animal on a wall.

And than people wonder why people have such a negative view of snake keepers....could not possibly be because of people like you?

Instantly attacks me.

My reply with her comment

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/image...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Foolish1 http://ball-pythons.net/forums/image...post-right.png
If c02 was humane. We would use it on death row inmates.

Quoted from other forums
One of the main objections to gas chambers in general is that the person being executed doesn't cooperate (which really shouldn't be a surprise). If the person being executed would breathe normally, or even close to it, the currently used methods are painless and humane. What happens instead is that the victim struggles painfully not to breathe and ends up thrashing around and gasping for breath. I've never watched a gas chamber execution (and have no desire to do so) but from what I've read they are quite gruesome to watch. It's definitely not a quick and painless death in practice.

Carbon monoxide was one of the gases used by the Nazis in WWII. It is currently used in some animal shelters, but there is a push by animal activists to ban gas chambers for animal euthanasia which is causing a decline in their use.

CO₂ ??? What inhumane idiot suggested that? Of course the animals go nuts. Their entire respiratory system is telling them that they are dying. They die frantic and in pain. CO is, as the OP suggest the humane gas. Or N₂. I can't help but wonder if somewhere down the line somebody with less than useful knowledge in physiology missed the significant distinction.

In all seriousness, I would be wanting a talk with the ethics committee overseeing the research.

There have been threads before on this, and generally N₂ seems about as humane as you could get. A gradual increase in concentration over time might avoid the worst issues. Given this is GQ I will grit my teeth and refrain from further comment on executions.

Pjen wrote: "The unspoken rule is that the person must be aware of what is happening and suffer enough to satisfy death penalty proponents, but not so much that it offends death penalty opponents."



This is me talking now. Again I don't wish to derail or offend. I love chemicals and physics and biology. C02 is cruel.



And there we go comparing apple to oranges last time I check the national veterinary association was not in charge of death row inmates????

Comparing humans to animals in this case just made you lose the very little newbie's credibility you had ;)

Again attacked.

Me trying to be civil.

I don't bludgeon them against a wall. I know how to quickly snap their neck with a fast precise motion. I feel like we are attacking each other for no reason. People don't like snake keepers because of me? That's not quite the moderator response. Do you know me? Do you know how passionate I am about animals and predators who are cast bad judgment. I don't run a shelter for Wolf dogs or take people's snakes they can't care for. That wouldn't be me. I don't go around my town and talk with locals every day about reptiles. I don't change people's minds and lives by letting them experience my best friends. That isn't me. Come on. Let's not get personal. I called you hun as a way like I would call someone bud, or darling. Just my way of speaking. Again no offense was intended

Well there it is. If I get banned or another infraction so be it. I just want to share knowledge and love to the world. I sincerely apologize to anyone I have offended with my tactics. I love this community and every one. Community advances the world. Happy days and much love all.

Her replies are in italics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Have you done it yourself?

I can tell you that everyone you talked to does not do it right and too much CO2 is filling the kill tank at once hence the gasping and panic.

When done right they will slowly fall asleep, this can be achieve with a CO2 regulator, than again people need to educate themselves. :rolleyes:

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And SLOWLY is not what we want !!! We want FAST and PAINLESS !!

But I did some reading on that AVMA link that you posted, and Manually Applied Blunt Force Trauma, is an ACCEPTED METHOD !!!!


M3.4 MANUALLY APPLIED BLUNT FORCE TRAUMA TO THE HEAD
Euthanasia by manually applied blunt force trauma to the head must be evaluated in terms of the anatomic features of the species on which it is to be performed, the skill of those performing it, the number of animals to be euthanized, and the environment in which it is to be conducted. Manually applied blunt force trauma to the head can be a humane method of euthanasia for neonatal animals with thin craniums if a single sharp blow delivered to the central skull bones with sufficient force can produce immediate depression of the CNS and destruction of brain tissue. When properly performed, loss of consciousness is rapid. Manually applied blunt force trauma to the head has been used primarily to euthanize small laboratory animals with thin craniums.334,340,341 It has also been ap:cens0r:plied for euthanasia of young piglets.

Thank You for posting that link

Quote:

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Originally Posted by albinos_rule

I think you are confusing braining with dispatching the rat before you feed it.

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Yes that what I meant. I have always been told by my dad that it was braining. TIL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mohawk

And SLOWLY is not what we want !!! We want FAST and PAINLESS !!

But I did some reading on that AVMA link that you posted, and Manually Applied Blunt Force Trauma, is an ACCEPTED METHOD !!!!


M3.4 MANUALLY APPLIED BLUNT FORCE TRAUMA TO THE HEAD
Euthanasia by manually applied blunt force trauma to the head must be evaluated in terms of the anatomic features of the species on which it is to be performed, the skill of those performing it, the number of animals to be euthanized, and the environment in which it is to be conducted. Manually applied blunt force trauma to the head can be a humane method of euthanasia for neonatal animals with thin craniums if a single sharp blow delivered to the central skull bones with sufficient force can produce immediate depression of the CNS and destruction of brain tissue. When properly performed, loss of consciousness is rapid. Manually applied blunt force trauma to the head has been used primarily to euthanize small laboratory animals with thin craniums.334,340,341 It has also been ap:cens0r:plied for euthanasia of young piglets.

Thank You for posting that link

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I don't think it is possible for me to laugh any more. Already laughing out loud and rolling on the floor laughing. Lol and rofl accomplished.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

It is barbaric and inhuman and you have NO BUSINESS feeding pre-killed or f/t if you cannot euthanize the prey HUMANELY which means CO2 or cervical dislocation.

Owning snakes means having respect for the prey item also, wonder why people look at us snake owners the way they do,

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Okay Deborah I understand that you have been here longer than me and respect your opinion but in my original post I politely asked to not be attacked for my choices as I am trying to be better educated in care for both feeders and snakes. So Deborah if you can't resist attacking me for not doing something "right" (the way you do it) then just don't reply please. Again I am new to the hobby so I am still learning. I understand what you are trying to do but judging me on how I feed my snakes is not the way to do it, besides it's not like I microwave them or make them suffer besides the minute or two they are conscience and I agree that that is too much suffering for any animal.

Who can we message about being attacked by mods? I have seen this for a month now.

Don't feel bad nucklehead. Every English farm the raises chicken snap necks or use blunt force trauma. I raise amazing food. Eat my chicken or turkeys. The meat tastes different when the animal is afraid of death or stressed. I guarantee. Literally guarentee. Chicken killed with my barbaric method quote unquote tastes better because the death is fast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nucklehead97

Okay Deborah I understand that you have been here longer than me and respect your opinion but in my original post I politely asked to not be attacked for my choices as I am trying to be better educated in care for both feeders and snakes. So Deborah if you can't resist attacking me for not doing something "right" (the way you do it) then just don't reply please. Again I am new to the hobby so I am still learning. I understand what you are trying to do but judging me on how I feed my snakes is not the way to do it, besides it's not like I microwave them or make them suffer besides the minute or two they are conscience and I agree that that is too much suffering for any animal.

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Actually according to the AVMA Site, Microwaving is also used to Euthanize rodents .......

M3.11 FOCUSED BEAM
MICROWAVE IRRADIATION
Heating by focused beam microwave irradiation is used primarily by neurobiologists to fix brain metabolites in vivo while maintaining the anatomic integrity of the brain.410 Microwave instruments have been specifically designed for use in euthanasia of laboratory mice and rats.

You and your reading. This forum has no place for facts or science.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foolish1

Who can we message about being attacked by mods? I have seen this for a month now.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

It is barbaric and inhuman and you have NO BUSINESS feeding pre-killed or f/t if you cannot euthanize the prey HUMANELY which means CO2 or cervical dislocation.

Owning snakes means having respect for the prey item also, wonder why people look at us snake owners the way they do, look no further, throwing rats on walls, bashing their hear several times on a table, using hammers, pulling teeth etc.....such a positive image :rolleyes:



Learn to dispatch the prey and maybe people will refrain from bashing, educate yourself https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Doc...euthanasia.pdf

As for braining it is done post mortem so I fail to see why at this point you want to do this humanly when you fail do do the rest humanly???

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Beyond linking something that refutes everything you said what good does this post serve. How are you supposed to moderate when you attack new members instantly so fiercely. Honestly. He was corgial and curious.

To any other mod reading this. I have gotten 3 private messages from members wishing to leave this community because of certain moderators actions. Literally you are losing add sale revenue and member support due to certain moderators.

People want to ask questions without being scolded. They are looking for forums where people are nice.

Holy Cow ...... you never read that AVMA Site at all, Did You ????

It clearly states that killing with CO2 is painful to both Humans, and Animals :

Carbon dioxide has the potential to cause distress in animals via three different mechanisms: (1) pain due
to formation of carbonic acid on respiratory and ocular membranes, (2) production of so-called air hunger and a feeling of breathlessness, and (3) direct stimulation of ion channels within the amygdala associated with the fear response.
Carbon dioxide may cause pain due to the forma:cens0r:tion of carbonic acid when it contacts moisture on the respiratory and ocular membranes. In humans, rats, and cats, most nociceptors begin to respond at CO2 con:cens0r:centrations of approximately 40%.218–221 Humans report discomfort begins at 30% to 50% CO2, and intensifies to overt pain with higher concentrations.222

Wow !! People need to EDUCATE themselves before spewing forth UN-TRUTHS !!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mohawk

Actually according to the AVMA Site, Microwaving is also used to Euthanize rodents .......

M3.11 FOCUSED BEAM
MICROWAVE IRRADIATION
Heating by focused beam microwave irradiation is used primarily by neurobiologists to fix brain metabolites in vivo while maintaining the anatomic integrity of the brain.410 Microwave instruments have been specifically designed for use in euthanasia of laboratory mice and rats.

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Oh man that made me laugh but you know what I meant. I don't make the rats suffer for long periods of time or make them panic.

Funny enough I found all that information not on the site SHE linked. So the science community, animal community, death row inmate activists, veterinarian, physicists and doctors all agree. Strange huh.

Permission to be blown away. Is this all a joke or do people seriously link information that refutes everything they are saying while attacking others and dismissing truth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mohawk

Manually applied blunt force trauma to the head can be a humane method of euthanasia for neonatal animals with thin craniums if a single sharp blow delivered to the central skull bones with sufficient force can produce immediate depression of the CNS and destruction of brain tissue.

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Please read the rest of the sentence for instances in which this method is considered acceptable. Our feeder animals are not in a perpetual neonatal state.