Keeping MICE VS RATS

hi guys,

i've been having some second thoughts about keeping my MICE breeders and continue to breed them rather than feeding them and go with RATS all the way. i used to breed my MICE for the hatchlings and younger balls, but ive been noticing that most keepers are fine with RATS. ive notices that mice have high cannibalism rates that why ive been wondering o keep them or just focus on rats all the way..

any opinions?

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Originally Posted by Joe Massey

hi guys,

i've been having some second thoughts about keeping my MICE breeders and continue to breed them rather than feeding them and go with RATS all the way. i used to breed my MICE for the hatchlings and younger balls, but ive been noticing that most keepers are fine with RATS. ive notices that mice have high cannibalism rates that why ive been wondering o keep them or just focus on rats all the way..

any opinions?

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I've never kept or looked into keeping mice, so I wouldn't be the expert on them. I've heard that nutritionally, there isn't really a different gram for gram, and the only reason people will recommend rats over mice is due to BP's being picky eaters and sometimes not wanting to switch feeders (which means many many mice where one rat would be more convenient). I'm only breeding rats right now, mostly because of the size snakes I'm looking to feed (3 small enough to eat mice or rat pinks/pups, 5 on small to large rats), and the baby rats work well enough for feeding my smaller snakes. If you have the space for both and you don't think your BP's will be too picky about switching food, I would say go for it, but if you have to pick one or the other I'd say go rats.

I don't mess with mice due to the increased smell. Might just be me, but mice stink way worse, even when the bedding is changed more often. This was my second year working with hatchlings, and all were started with rat fuzzies. I also breed asf's, and they have even less smell than the rats, and they cover any need I get for smaller prey. Also work well for picky BPs as a way to jumpstart feeding.

i guess ill be focusing on rats instead. you have any tips to increase the number of babies a mom delivers? not that im no getting an average of 6-8 pinkies, but you guys thinks there are ways to increase the numbers of the pups? ive seen moms deliver a 13 pup litter its not constant though.

Actually I kind of suck at getting decent sized litters, I'm actually looking for some new genetics to add to my breeding group to freshen things up. Other than that all I do is try to select my breeder holdbacks from moms who have a history of having larger litters.

has selecting your breeders with good history worked out so far? are you getting better chances? hmmm makes me wonder as well, i havent been choosing my female breeders. but that might work.

i also wonder if the tub size matters, diet or even the father of the litter.

I breed both, I have limited amount of room and can breed more mice in the same square footage than rats.

I also need mice for my colubrids and I prefer to start hatchlings BP on mice, I get a better response that way.

As far as my adult BP they are on rats simply because I prefer to feed one prey versus 3 to 5.

Now when it comes to mice breeding if you have a good colony canibalism is as low as canibalism in rats.

thanks deb, what would be your take in my case, should i keep the mice or just focus on the rats? - should i get a new colony of mice and get rid of the current ones?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joe Massey

thanks deb, what would be your take in my case, should i keep the mice or just focus on the rats? - should i get a new colony of mice and get rid of the current ones?

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Like I said with the right colony cannibalism is almost inexistent (took me 4 tries from scratch to achieve that but I did eventually)

Now as far as starting your hatchlings if you are fine with rats you can always concentrate one that if you have the room to do so but I will recommend to keep a few mice just in case, not all hatchlings will start on rats so unless you have a steady supplier, keeping a few on hands might be a good idea.

I have always kept mice just in case even before keeping colubrids.

Now if you want to keep mice I would start from scratch again don't holdback from animals that cannibalize their young same goes for chewers and biters.

thanks.. ill keep that in mind. gotta look for a good supplier. :)

I breed both as well. For my little guys, it's much easier to give them the right sized mouse and get a feeding response than a rat pup that doesn't move much. Also for the mice I used a base layer of alfalfa pellets and top with pine shavings. The alfalfa really keeps the smell down. My rats, mice, and snakes are all in my bedroom so keeping smell down is important to me. For the rats I used a base of pine pellets and top with pine shavings. The alfalfa pellets are more expensive and not needed for the rats so I just use them for the mice. I change mouse and rat tubs every week and the mice don't smell any more than the rats do. I also don't have a problem with them cannibalizing. I have them in a mouse rack and keep one male per tub. The females all raise the babies in one big pile.

ive been using the Harem breeding method as well for more than a year now with my mice, its just recently that they went on eating each other. i have no idea why.. this is soooo confusing for me. well that the advantage of having this thread, it gives me more ideas..

still confused with keeping the mice or changing the colony or going with rats all the way.

using the mice as feeders for the small ones does make sense.

I don't think there's really much difference in keeping them, to me I don't like keeping rats because they're more needy, and I feel bad if I don't play with them, and then I play with them and don't want to feed them.

The downside of mice, is that your ball pythons can outgrow them. You'd have to be feeding tons of mice to one snake, instead of one or two rats. I think that's the biggest difference.

I have both, my ball python won't take a rat and my hognose and cat both eat mice also so need them although I would prefer if I could go to just rats. I do feel like rats need more space and interaction than a mouse, being smarter and they smell more to me. I haven't had cannibalism problems in my mice for many years.

I gave up all of my rodents over a year ago due to time constraints. I'm seriously thinking about getting into it again due to the need for hopper mice for the tough to get started hatchlings, I've never had much trouble switching them over to frozen rats once they are feeding regularily and I've found it a lot easier to get hatchlings started on hoppers rather then rat pups. Personally I'd go with the mice even though I don't like keeping them as much as I like keeping rats.

I've always had great luck with rats, they are easy to keep and breed and cover all sizes need for ball pythons. I start groups with a few adults picked up from local pet shops and soon have plenty of healthy little babies.

Mice on the other hand hate me, I've never had any healthy appearing adult groups that I've kept breed. EVER. :rage: