First ball pythons, need advice on feeding?

Hello, I am new to ball pythons and just picked up a pair of 2014 hatchlings last week. I was wondering if someone on the forum could please help answer a few of my questions. I am an experienced reptile keeper but new to BP's. I have read several caresheets and researched BP's prior to purchasing the two I now have.

I have a male mystic potion and a female blue-eyed super mystic. Both were flown by plane to an airport where I picked them up. I don't live in a big city so I had to stay overnight (keeping them in their shipping containers) before driving 8 hours back home the next day. I asked the breeder what he fed them and he said F/T rat pups once every 5-7 days. He kept them in a 4.24" high, 7 wide and 13 deep enclosure with a water bowl (no hide) on paper towel.

Since bringing them home, I put them in their respective bins and left them alone because I didn't want to stress them out.

Currently my set up is as follows:

- 4"x12" (shoebox size) bins with holes drilled around the top and locking lids
- Paper towel substrate
- 1 small black snake hide that is just big enough for each BP to hide in and secure on all sides
- plastic water dish
- 1 Heat cable (15 Watt) used to heat both bins only on one side so there is a temperature gradient
- I use a digital thermometer to monitor my temperatures as well as an infrared temperature gun. The hot side for each bin is currently sitting at 96 and the cool side is sitting at 80. I asked the breeder about the temperature he kept the hot side at for his snakes and he said 95 was where he liked it to be so I am within that range
- I plan on getting a thermostat soon (Spyder Robotics brand) since many BP keepers recommend having a thermostat

Yesterday evening I tried to feed my new ball pythons 1 thawed rat pup each but neither of them would accept food. Videos I watched suggested moving the bp's to a "feeding bin" separate from the bin they live in. I moved each to a feeding bin and tried to give each a F/T rat pup on tongs. Prior to giving them the rat pup, I boiled some water, put each rat pup in a plastic ziplock bag, and let the rat pups sit in the water to thaw out for 30 minutes. The pythons looked at the rat pups but made no attempt to strike at them. I tried gently shaking the rat pup using the tongs, putting the rat pup in the bin and closing the lid (in case my presence was stressing them out) but nothing seemed to work.

Am I doing something wrong? I know BP's are notorious for refusing food but the breeder had no trouble feeding them. Is it a good idea to move the snakes to a "feeding bin" or is that just causing unnecessary stress?

Do they need more time to adjust to their new environment? I don't want to sound impatient but if there is something different I could try next time I feed them that might help I would love to hear your thoughts. When should I try feeding them again?

Any help is appreciated. Thank you.

What temp were the rats at? It could be possible that they were either too hot or too cold. Also, are you 100% sure that they were eating rats? They could have been mice and that's a totally different smell

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Originally Posted by Sammiebob

What temp were the rats at? It could be possible that they were either too hot or too cold. Also, are you 100% sure that they were eating rats? They could have been mice and that's a totally different smell

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I double-checked the breeder's email message to me and he said he fed them: "hot, wet f/t rats dangle fed on a pair of haemostats"

Come to think of it, I did not check the temperature of the rat pups prior to feeding them...I boiled the water and let the rat pups thaw in plastic bags in a cup. The water was still warm (not hot) when I removed the rat pups. They didn't feel hot when I touched them to check if they were fully thawed out so I thought they were okay. Is there a better way I can prep the food? Should I just run hot tap water instead of boiling it or let the rats defrost at room temp and just warm them up in warm tap water?

What concerns me is the snakes didn't even try to go for the rat pups or anything, yet the breeder had no trouble giving them F/T rat pups. I'm confused if they are not eating because they are still new or because I did something wrong.

Maybe try a live fuzzy mouse to kick start them eating. My 6 week old high white pied girl was classified as a "problem feeder" at the pet shop but after I got her set up and all nice and warm she ate 3 live fuzzy mice after 2 days. They were small for her but it got her "jump started" to eating and now i'll bump her up to hopper mice or I might try a rat pinkie as I'd like to get her on rats early.

Another thing to keep in mind is that boiling water has the potential to cook the rats - something you want to avoid. I generally let my rats thaw out and then place them in hot water (just hot enough that I can stick my finger in it without getting burned) in a zip lock bag.

You can also try lightly dangling or nudging the rats with feeder tongs to simulate a live rat. This has always worked for me when I get a stubborn eater. Using feeder tongs to keep your smell away from them helps too. I've also found it helps to keep yourself "hidden" from the snake's view. If possible, make sure the snake has some sort of covering over it (as in stick your tongs in through an opening in the cage, not take the lid and his hide out and wave the rat around).

Of course, they could just be adjusting to their new habitats. :)

Little rat pups should thaw out pretty fast. My red tail boa was fed frozen hopper mice as a baby so that's what I started on and it only took about 20 mins in a bowl of hot water in a bag. Since then I have changed to live prekill rats since I personally look at it as F/T as a frozen tv dinner and live prekilled as a home cooked meal :P But regardless they should have been thawed out. Did you feel them and try and kind of bend them to see if they felt frozen inside? And yes putting little frozen guys in boiling water can actually cause them to rupture which will leave you with a mess.

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Originally Posted by Spikeanoid

Another thing to keep in mind is that boiling water has the potential to cook the rats - something you want to avoid. I generally let my rats thaw out and then place them in hot water (just hot enough that I can stick my finger in it without getting burned) in a zip lock bag.

You can also try lightly dangling or nudging the rats with feeder tongs to simulate a live rat. This has always worked for me when I get a stubborn eater. Using feeder tongs to keep your smell away from them helps too. I've also found it helps to keep yourself "hidden" from the snake's view. If possible, make sure the snake has some sort of covering over it (as in stick your tongs in through an opening in the cage, not take the lid and his hide out and wave the rat around).

Of course, they could just be adjusting to their new habitats. :)

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Well, that makes a lot of sense! I watched a video to learn how to feed BP's and the guy in the video boiled the water and thawed the rats that way. No wonder I had trouble feeding them - there is so much information out there that it's hard to know what is "best" when you are a newcomer. I will try letting the rat pups thaw out at room temperature and put them in warm (not boiling) water. I feed my corn snake by heating its mice in a cup of warm tap water - my corn snake eats every time.

Also, I watched the guy in the video dangle/shake the rat on a pair of tongs in front of the BP with no lid on the container or anything.

The BP's did not have a hide when the breeder had them but I gave each one its own snug hide. If I try to feed them, will they know food is there if they are in such a small space (their hide) and come out?

I am going to try slipping the feeding tongs through a small crack between the container and the lid and see if that helps like you suggested.

When should I try feeding them again? I tried last night and still have 8 F/T rat pups stocked in my freezer. I want to avoid feeding them live mice, if possible.

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Originally Posted by mysticpython

I double-checked the breeder's email message to me and he said he fed them: "hot, wet f/t rats dangle fed on a pair of haemostats"

Come to think of it, I did not check the temperature of the rat pups prior to feeding them...I boiled the water and let the rat pups thaw in plastic bags in a cup. The water was still warm (not hot) when I removed the rat pups. They didn't feel hot when I touched them to check if they were fully thawed out so I thought they were okay. Is there a better way I can prep the food? Should I just run hot tap water instead of boiling it or let the rats defrost at room temp and just warm them up in warm tap water?

What concerns me is the snakes didn't even try to go for the rat pups or anything, yet the breeder had no trouble giving them F/T rat pups. I'm confused if they are not eating because they are still new or because I did something wrong.

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Take the rats out of the freezer in the morning, and let them thaw near the snake's cage. At night, put the thawed rats in hot tap water. NOT boiling water. Snakes do not have the stomach power to digest cooked food, and it can hurt them. So boiling water is not good. If the breeder said the rats are "hot, wet f/t rats" then that means he didn't bother to dry them off and that's what your snakes are used to. Maybe give that a shot.

I have found thawing them for a couple of hours (the mice or rat pups) on the counter covered with paper towel works best. Then heating it up with a hair dryer until it is warm though, with the head slightly warmer than body works best. My girls were live fed prior and it took experimenting to find what worked best.


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Originally Posted by mysticpython

The BP's did not have a hide when the breeder had them but I gave each one its own snug hide. If I try to feed them, will they know food is there if they are in such a small space (their hide) and come out?

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Generally they do. Occasionally I'll have to lift up their hide to get their attention. See what works best for you. If they don't seem to know food is there, go ahead and take out their hide. The only reason I suggest keeping them covered is because I had a problem feeder who it was obvious felt insecure when I took the lid off to feed her. I stuck the food in with tongs while keeping her lid on and she gobbled it right up (I did have to remove her hide to get her to come out, though).

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Originally Posted by mysticpython

Also, I watched the guy in the video dangle/shake the rat on a pair of tongs in front of the BP with no lid on the container or anything.

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After the first couple of feeds, my snakes no longer felt insecure when I removed their lid. Keeping the lid on is, at least in my experience, only necessary the first few times for tricky eaters.

While dangling is very helpful, too forceful of dangling can scare the snake off. Just a tiny bit of wiggling, or even laying the rat down and nudging it with tongs, works best to simulate movement of the rat.

Its to a lot to digest (get it?) but it's extremely rewarding so keep at it!

Thanks for the advice everyone!

So, I should try feeding them again tomorrow? I read on a caresheet not to try again for another week. However, I am actually glad they refused the food this time since I don't want them to be harmed because I did not prepare it properly. I'm glad I found this forum. I was pretty worried and it's nice to get straightforward answers to my questions. :) Thank you very much. You can't trust everything you see on YouTube, even if it seems credible.

I will take two rat pups out of the freezer tomorrow before I go to work (8am) and let them defrost beside the snake bins. When I get home (around 5pm) I'll put the pups in ziplock bags and warm them up in a cup of hot tap water like I do for my corn snake. I heard feeding BP's in a dark room at night can stimulate feeding so I'll feed them at 6pm with their container lid on and see if they go for it.

I will let you know if I am successful tomorrow on this thread. Hopefully, my second attempt will work!

Here are some pictures of their setup:

http://i.imgur.com/Px0y9S7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/oRqPknP.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/NuOqBZa.jpg

So pretty.... I'm jealous. :bow:

Later on down the road when you get lazy like me, you can stick the frozen rat in lukewarm water to quickly defrost then stick it in the cup of hot water. Then you don't have to remember to defrost in the morning.

how long have you had them for? I don't even attempt to feed mine until I've had them for about a week, and if feeding day falls on less than seven days i don't really expect them to take it. It's still important to offer, but don't be alarmed if they refuse even up to five meals (I have one that likes to eat every 3 weeks). As mentioned before; don't boil your rats. I read your post as "I boiled two rat pups for 30 minutes" which I know can't be right, because boiling beef ribs for that long cooks them through, and rat pups at that point wouldn't even be recognizable. I leave my f/t rats to thaw at room temperature, finishing by placing them in lukewarm water just before offering. Also (and I don't think anyone has said this before) I would not move them to a separate tub to be fed. There's some debate around it, but I personally don't even touch my snakes on feeding day or too late the day before. Moving them into a new environment to eat is just too much excitement for a species already known to be finicky eaters. The feeding response isn't something to worry about with balls, and even getting bit doesn't hurt too bad (it bleeds a good deal, but it doesn't really hurt). Rat bites are much more unpleasant, believe me...

Lastly; just relax. If they're hungry they'll eat, and it may take them a while before they decide they want to. From what I understand, it's pretty rare to have a snake starve itself to death as long as you're offering proper food regularly.

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Originally Posted by Spikeanoid

So pretty.... I'm jealous. :bow:

Later on down the road when you get lazy like me, you can stick the frozen rat in lukewarm water to quickly defrost then stick it in the cup of hot water. Then you don't have to remember to defrost in the morning.

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lol That's a great idea! When I get comfortable with their feeding routine and feed them successfully for a few weeks I'll try doing that!

Again, thank you for your help everyone.

I am lucky I have these two beautiful BP's....it was almost not to be. I had originally purchased a "patternless" male mystic potion (no little white markings on its belly) and it had arrived the day before Halloween. Since I don't live near a big city with an airport, I arranged for my friend to pick up the snake for me and take it back home with her because she would be in the city anyway visiting relatives. Unfortunately, she wasn't going to get to the city until the day after the snake was due to arrive. I would have just rescheduled the shipping date but the breeder was going out of the country so the only date he could do it was the day before my friend arrived.

My friend said her brother could pick the snake up and keep it until she got it from him the next morning (she is experienced with snakes and her brother would have had it for literally less than 12 hours). The breeder wanted her brother to open the box at the cargo counter and text him to let him know that the snake arrived safely. He didn't follow instructions and didn't open the box until he got home, so the breeder called me in a panic wondering if everything went okay. Once I got a hold of the brother and established everything was fine with him and the breeder, I went to bed and thought nothing more of it...until I woke up to a series of messages the next morning stating that my snake died during the night. He didn't take the snake out of the box it was shipped in and a heat pack taped to the lid of the Styrofoam box "fell" on the snake during the night and literally cooked it to death. I was devastated and sickened when I saw the pictures. Fortunately, my friend and her brother wanted to make it right and gave me most of the money it cost me to buy & ship the snake so I could get another one from the same breeder.

I decided to make the journey myself so I could ensure my animal's safety. The breeder felt pretty bad too because there was nothing he or I could do about what happened from where we were. I had made huge efforts to maintain communication between us the entire time and put no blame on him for what happened since it was obviously not his fault at all. He offered to sell me another male mystic AND a female super mystic that was going to be a hold back with the male at a discounted price. I wasn't expecting to get two BP's but decided to go for it because she was very pretty too. So, what was an originally terrible situation ended on a positive note. I feel bad about what happened to the other snake and learned a very hard lesson from this experience.

Here are some pictures of the female super mystic I got. I am passionate about mojaves/mystics for some reason and just love her blue eyes!

http://i.imgur.com/PtlVQ8Y.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1MfLrxV.jpg

I picked up my BP's last weekend on Saturday night (the 22nd) and settled them into their new bin homes on the 23rd. The pictures of me holding them was right after I got them home and had to pick them up to put them in their bins. I did not handle them after that and left them alone. I tried to feed them for the first time last night (Nov 30th). What I did was boil water on the stove and pour the boiling water into two ceramic mugs. I then took out the frozen rat pups, placed each in an individual ziplock bag, and put the bags containing the rat pups in the mugs to defrost. I had seen a BP keeper do this on a YouTube video. I waited 20-30 minutes for the rats to "defrost" before taking them out, placing them on paper towel, and lightly dabbing them dry with pieces of paper towel. They didn't feel hot or frozen but I wasn't really sure what they should have felt like at that time.

I then took my BP's out of their bins (one at a time) and placed them into a larger feeding bin. I tried to dangle the "thawed" rat pups on tongs but neither snake even attempted to strike.

I am starting to think my lack of success was due to 1) not correctly preparing the food and 2) the snakes still being new and my decision to put them in a separate feeding bin. I know BP's are notorious for being finicky eaters sometimes but as someone new to BP's, its easy to get worried when they don't eat. I will try to feed them tomorrow in their own bins and not move them. I don't blame them for getting stressed out and not eating last night - hopefully they will have today to calm down and be more receptive tomorrow.

I will try to relax...lol I do feel a lot better after getting some sound advice on what to do.

As daigga said, I wouldn't feed in a separate bin. I don't even do that with my 6ft red tail boa and she has a feeding response that rivals some retics imo. Imagine trying to move a 6-10 ft snake that is ready to eat anything that moves.....and your going to stick your arms in the feeding tub and try to remove them. Not to mention after a big meal and about an hour in the feeding tub to wait for their feeding response to go away, now you gotta pick up a very full snake that doesn't want to move. Nothing wrong with feeding in their cage as long as you socialize with the snakes a few times a week so they don't get conditioned to where cage door open=food.

Well, I tried feeding them again tonight with no luck. :(

I took the rat pups out of the freezer in the morning and left them to defrost in a ziplock bag between both snakes' bins. When I got home from work I filled a cup with warm tap water and placed the ziplock bag in the cup of warm water so the rat pups could warm up. I made sure the room was pretty dimly lit and did not move the snakes from their bins this time. I first tried to dangle the rat pup by the tail in the female's bin to see if she would react. She was in her hide and did not come out. I then slowly lifted up the hide and removed it from the bin so she could see the rat pup. She looked at it for a bit and edged toward it but didn't attempt to strike at it or show much interest beyond that. Instead, she moved to the back of her bin and slipped under the paper towel. I left the rat pup in the bin with her (in case she felt uncomfortable with me being in her line of sight) and closed the lid.

I decided to try the male and see if he would be more receptive. He showed even less interest than the female. I had to remove his hide because he didn't come out on his own. He sat coiled in a ball but did lift his head to look at the rat for a moment. However, he showed no interest in it beyond that so I left the rat pup in the bin with him and closed the lid.

So far, neither of them has taken the food. Am I still doing something wrong? When should I try to feed them again?

I was also thinking that they might not be used to my scent because I have only had them for about a week. Should I try handling them for a few minutes every day before trying to feed them again so they can get used to me or will that just stress them out even more?

I'd wait a week before attempting to feed again. Also keep handling to a minimal to let them get acclimated to their new surroundings some more. I wouldn't stress over it too much yet. :gj:

I am also new to BPs and am learning a lot from here. The one thing i learned was some BPs won't eat when they are going into shed. Ask the breeder when they shed last. When i got my little guy, i left him to acclumate for a week, then fed him, he ate a ft rat pup like a champ. The next week he refused any food, no intrest at all, so i left him alone till the next feeding day, turned out he was going into shed, because the day before his next feeding was due he shed. The next day he pounced on his food, and has eaten well since. My mistake was not asking the breeder when his last shed was. My corn will not eat for about 10 days during her shed.

It might not be anything your doing, Also I have found the hair dryer trick at the head works really great.

BPs are like pickey children. Every one is different and wants different things. My spider will not eat prekilled, fully live or frozen thawed the only way she will eat is to get the rat to the pointe where it is barley alive and leave it in front of her hide in a dark quiet room for about an hour. My pastel pos het pied will only eat live. All of the others dont seem to care how they are fed, they usually take them right off of the tongs. Just takes a lot of patience and experimenting to find what the individual snake wants.

Hey everyone, just wanted to give you an update on the situation

My male mystic potion has still not eaten and it's been almost a month since I got him. The female super mojave ate one rat pup last week but refused food this week. Am I doing something wrong?

I put two F/T rat pups in a small ziplock bag and let them thaw out in a cup of warm tap water for 3 1/2 hours prior to feeding. The rat pups seemed fully thawed when I tried to feed them.

Temperatures for both bins are sitting at 90 degrees Fahrenheit on the warm side.

I am getting kind of worried about the male mystic potion because he has not eaten since I brought him home. He seems healthy and I have not handled him even once - he has a small hide that he always goes in for cover. I haven't handled him because I don't want to stress him out.

Is there something I can do to try and get them to eat? The male mystic potion poked his head out of his hide to look at the rat pup but didn't attempt to strike or do much. I slowly removed his hide from the bin after a few minutes and tried to dangle-feed the rat pup with no luck. I have waited 7 days between each feeding attempt and have not bothered the mystic potion at all. Right now, I left the rats in the bins with the snakes and put their hides back in case they are nervous about eating when I'm around.

Should I try braining/crushing the skulls of the rat pups prior to feeding them next time to see if that gets them interested? I would like to get them eating as consistently as possible. I am not equipped to breed/raise my own live feeders. When should I try feeding my BP's again?

Any help is appreciated.

Rat pups should not take that long to thaw in water.

Once they were thawed and you were about to feed them did you warm them again?

I thaw and then I drain that water and put fresh hot water on them. I let them set for 10-15 minutes and then start to feed my collection. You want to feed the prey at a temp that mimics live prey. A mouse has a body temp around 100F to give you an idea of how hot they should be.

If I try warming them up again do you think they might be more interested or am I too late to try a second time in the same evening? I could put them back in the bag, fill the cup up with warm water, wait fifteen minutes, and then try again.

I guess I'm not used to the intricacies of feeding BP's just yet. My corn snake eats F/T and always strikes at her food very readily.

Some snakes can be very picky.

You could try again but I really doubt you will have success. I would try my suggestion on the next feed day.

Also once they take the prey sometimes it helps to grab the tail with tongs and wiggle and pull on it. This makes the snake think the prey is fighting and will really kick their feed drive into gear.

I will try to feed again (warmed up rat pups) and see if they take it - if not, I will make sure the rats are warm enough next feeding day. I heard BP's can be finicky eaters but I wasn't expecting them to be this finicky. However, it was my mistake and at least if I'm not successful this time around they will (hopefully) be extra hungry next week. Thank you for your help!

I know the breeder said he was feeding them wet f/t, I will let you know I've never had much luck getting a snake to eat a dripping wet rodent. I don't know why, I just haven't.

Here is how I do it most of the time:

Select the rodent to be thawed; if you have time, let it stand at room temperature in the same room with your snake for 4 - 5 hours. If you don't have the time, place in a small container and run a thin stream of hot water into the container and over the rodent for 10 - 15 minutes. If you had to wet the rodent, use an old rag or towel to blot off most of the water and then use a hair dryer to dry it completely. If you did not wet the rodent, you can use the hair dryer to just warm the rodent all over. It is best to do this right near the snake tub, if possible blow the air in the direction of the snake tub. The warm rodent scented breezes should have the baby good and ready to go. Carefully remove the hide. Grasp the rodent with tongs just behind the head, by the scruff of the neck and hit just the head with the hair dryer for 15 - 20 seconds. You want that rodent putting off a massive heat signature. Gently offer the rodent to one side of the snake's head, and not too close. Chances are good it will hit it right away. If not, gently wiggle the rodent back and forth a little bit. We call this the "zombie dance". The goal is not to make the rodent into a Rockette, but to fool the snake into thinking it's alive. If a few good wiggles doesn't entice a strike, you can try re-heating the head an offering again in much the same way. You want the rodent close to the snake, but not right on top of it. If the baby still refuses, you can gently lay the rodent down nearby, cover the tank, turn off the lights and leave the room for about 20 minutes. Most of the time when you return the rodent will be gone. If not, you can try re-heating the head one last time. If this fails completely, and it sometimes will, trash the rodent or feed it to another snake if you can. Wait at least 3 or 4 days before trying again. The big thing with most f/t refusal really is not getting they prey hot enough. Wet prey especially will chill really fast.

Well, that and the fact that ball pythons, baby or not, are just stubborn little monsters when it comes to refusing to feed and scaring new parents.

One last thing. These guys can really key in to your mood. If you are anxious and nervous and " What if it doesn't eat ?" I can just about promise they won't eat. Calm yourself down before you go into their room. Breathe deep and tell yourself, if they eats that's good, if they don't no big deal. And MAKE yourself believe that. I've stressed out more than one snake to the point of not eating, just by being worried they would not eat. They can sense your moods and they will react to them.

I've only ever heard of a ball python starving itself to death maybe once or twice, and it's usually a safe bet there was something wrong with the snake to cause it. I have had a few babies I had to assist feed from hatching for a while to get them going, but if they were eating before they should again.

Gale