Thermostat is driving me crazy!

So, I've been using a timer for my bp's UTH. I had to monitor quite a bit but, with my wife's help, we got it dialed in fairly well and adjusted when the weather changed. I heard everywhere that I shouldn't rely on a timer and get a thermostat. So, I got a zilla 1,000 watt, set it up and watched it go. For the last 4 days, I have been constantly monitoring it and just can't get it dialed in to where there is a consistent temp on my hot side. It has hot spots of 88 - 91 in one area and not even 2 inches over (still inside the UTH borders ) is only 73 and sometimes lower. I don't want my snake to get too cold or overheat. I haven't changed substrate ( reptibark... yeah, I know but, it is working great for humidity and no problems with my bp, so far) and the substrate is set up the same as I always do. The probe is in the tank, on top of the substrate. I tried under the substrate and that had even worse results. If I put the probe under the tank with the UTH, how in the heck does that monitor what's going on inside the tank with my pet. Is this thermostat making my Zilla UTH go crazy or what? I would think they are compatible. Help!

The tstat probe does NOT go inside the tank. It needs to be on the outside of the tank between the uth and the bottom of the tank. Keeping the probe on top of the substrate does not allow the probe to accurately monitor the temperature. It is also dangerous to put it on top of the substrate because the snake can move it which will make the tstat run at full power and get to hot.

Your substrate should be very thin over the uth, 1/4 inch of less. To monitor the temp inside the tank most use a IR temp gun or a probed thermometer. If you get a thermometer with probe it needs to be placed on the bottom of the tank as you need to monitor the temps at the warmest place possible for your snake to reach.

Ok. But, my UTH is already stuck to the bottom. How do I peel it off without damaging the elements inside? Also, If I do manage to peel it off, how do I re apply it. Wouldn't the bend in the UTH covering the probe bend the elements? Thanks for the advice, btw

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Originally Posted by pinheadjas

Ok. But, my UTH is already stuck to the bottom. How do I peel it off without damaging the elements inside? Also, If I do manage to peel it off, how do I re apply it. Wouldn't the bend in the UTH covering the probe bend the elements? Thanks for the advice, btw

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I remove all of the dirt and tape my probe directly to the glass on the bottom of the tank, inside the tank. I know a lot of people are going to say something about how I shouldn't have tape inside the tank because it can get stuck to a snake, but it's packing tape so it's really strong. I would be surprised if a snake had the strength to pull up the packing tape even a little bit. Depending on the type of thermostat you have, the temps will fluctuate a little. I use the jumpstart heat mat thermostat, and when the mat gets up to the temperature I set it at, it shuts the mat off. Once it drops down to something like 88, the power kicks back on. Other thermostats simply regulate the power and those will keep your temps more constant.

First off YES you never put tape in the enclosure. EVER!!!
Second, you can tape the probe to the bottom of the UTH but you will need to make more adjustments.
The UTH is for a hot spot and NOT to raise ambient temperatures.
At this point you need to clear all the substrate from over the UTH and use a no contact or temp gun to read the surface temperature.
Now you will adjust your stat until you have the temo you want.

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Originally Posted by Reed12321

it's packing tape so it's really strong. I would be surprised if a snake had the strength to pull up the packing tape

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Yes and the heat will help.
There is a reason those with experiance tell you what not to do.
Though it is your snake and your future problem.

Thx everyone. I'll put the probe underneath and get the surface temp.

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Originally Posted by Reed12321

but it's packing tape so it's really strong. I would be surprised if a snake had the strength to pull up the packing tape even a little bit.

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I guarantee your snake is stronger. Its a constrictor and being so it could easily wrap the probe wire and pull the tape up. With heat and age the tape is going to become brittle and lose some power. Even in a weakened state the tape will be able to make a mess of your snakes skin if it gets stuck in it and worse yet if it gets the tape over its face while burrowing around.

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Originally Posted by KMG

I guarantee your snake is stronger. Its a constrictor and being so it could easily wrap the probe wire and pull the tape up. With heat and age the tape is going to become brittle and lose some power. Even in a weakened state the tape will be able to make a mess of your snakes skin if it gets stuck in it and worse yet if it gets the tape over its face while burrowing around.

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Then what do you suggest I use to secure the probe in the tank?

Read above: We don't recommend securing the probe in the tank.

Just chipping in here as an admitted newbie, but Reed the reasoning behind not putting the probe in the tank is that if it gets bumped by the snake (and it is likely to) it can very quickly and easily cause the heat mat to heat and heat to the point of endangering the snake. Without the thermostat probe on the mat the pad is trying to heat to the thermostat set point, but since the probe isn't reading the mat anymore it will just get hotter and hotter. The reasoning behind not putting tape in the tank should be obvious, do you really want to chance it when you could just get it set up safely outside the tank? You should always use a thermostat and it should always be safely out of reach of any animal in the tank.

Both my thermostats (ball python and leopard gecko) are set up taped to the bottom of the heat mat outside the tank. I did have some trouble with one of them at first, but it is an admittedly older style model and it has stabilized quite a bit now. Many will tell you it should be fine to peel back the UTH just enough to get the probe in between it and the glass. Personally, I was afraid to risk it. I trust them and I am sure that it works some, maybe even most of the time, but because I am paranoid I figured I would just sleep better at night not having to worry about a fire hazard from possible damage to the internal wiring. It is your call but I am just casting my vote for taping the probe to the bottom of the tank on the center of the heat mat. Just be sure of course to allow adequate ventilation under the tank (I believe a quarter to a half inch is recommended) It is safe and it works fine. And whatever you do, please please never put tape in your tank, regardless of who may claim it is fine. ;)

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Originally Posted by Reed12321

Then what do you suggest I use to secure the probe in the tank?

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It does not go inside the tank.

1. If the probe gets moved from where you have it set up the tstat will think the uth is not hot enough and crank up the power. This will make unsafe temps in your tank and put your snake in danger.

2. You snake could urinate on the probe location causing the tstat to think the uth is not hot enough and crank up the power. This will make unsafe temps in your tank and put your snake in danger.

3. The water bowl could be flipped causing the tank to flood which will make the tstat will think the uth is not hot enough and crank up the power. This will make unsafe temps in your tank and put your snake in danger.

You see the pattern?

Place the probe outside the tank between the uth and the bottom of the tank. The common way to secure it is foil tape, hot glue, or duct tape. If I remember correctly the tstat you have has a huge probe. Some have found putting the it between the uth and the tank to be problematic as it causes a gap in contact of the uth and the bottom of the tank. Those people have found placing the probe under the uth to work better to provide a more uniform heat pattern. So doing it this way it would be tstat probe, uth, then the tank bottom. You can still use the same items to secure it.

Note that when you secure the tstat probe you will get best results by taping the wire behind the probe to secure it. You want to avoid covering the probe itself as it can get insulated and cause inaccurate readings to the tstat which will give you a hotspot that is not in the desired temp range.

Tape on snake is really bad as it can tear their skin from their body. Use Google images to see some pics of what tape can do. You can also search the forum as I know I have seen pics here as well.

My only other questions are if I place the probe under the tank, there is no danger of the probe melting or causing a fire hazard? And why do the stupid companies that make these things tell you to place the probe in the tank? One more thing, will being on the back side of the UTH still gauge the proper temp? I tried it last night as a trial run to see if I could place it as described above however, it couldn't get above 78-80.even if I had the tstat set at 95. I didn't want to crank it to the max or above 100, fearing the worst would happen as I slept.

Follow my first post and you will get it.
Fwi one of my racks is set to 103 to get a 93 degree inside the tub spot.

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Originally Posted by pinheadjas

I didn't want to crank it to the max or above 100, fearing the worst would happen as I slept.

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If things start bursting into flames when they reach 100 degrees, I need to find another place to live. ;)

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Originally Posted by pinheadjas

My only other questions are if I place the probe under the tank, there is no danger of the probe melting or causing a fire hazard? And why do the stupid companies that make these things tell you to place the probe in the tank? One more thing, will being on the back side of the UTH still gauge the proper temp? I tried it last night as a trial run to see if I could place it as described above however, it couldn't get above 78-80.even if I had the tstat set at 95. I didn't want to crank it to the max or above 100, fearing the worst would happen as I slept.

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Yes, it will still work on the back. If your probe is small then put it where we originally told you to. I was just giving that as a back up method if your probe is one of the huge ones.

Like Pit said sometimes to make up for the heat lost traveling through the materials the tank is made of makes it necessary to set the tstat higher than your desired hotspot temp. This is normal but it shouldn't be anything crazy. It usually just requires a few degrees higher than your target.

Any adjustments you do to your tstat give it a few hours to settle before adjusting it again. You can drive yourself crazy trying to adjust it before it has settled because you keep adjusting it before you allow it to rest on a temperature. Take it slow and only make small adjustments each time.

I'll give it a shot. Thank you all for the advice.

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Originally Posted by KMG

Yes, it will still work on the back. If your probe is small then put it where we originally told you to. I was just giving that as a back up method if your probe is one of the huge ones.

Like Pit said sometimes to make up for the heat lost traveling through the materials the tank is made of makes it necessary to set the tstat higher than your desired hotspot temp. This is normal but it shouldn't be anything crazy. It usually just requires a few degrees higher than your target.

Any adjustments you do to your tstat give it a few hours to settle before adjusting it again. You can drive yourself crazy trying to adjust it before it has settled because you keep adjusting it before you allow it to rest on a temperature. Take it slow and only make small adjustments each time.

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Okay, i'll pull back the UTH and put the probe there, but my concern was that it would be either too cold or too warm if I put the probe there. The whole reason I got a thermostat was to avoid reaching into the tank and checking temps 20 times per day, but I suppose I have no other choice.

Once you get it set you dont have to check so often.
Dont over complicate things.

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Originally Posted by Reed12321

Okay, i'll pull back the UTH and put the probe there, but my concern was that it would be either too cold or too warm if I put the probe there. The whole reason I got a thermostat was to avoid reaching into the tank and checking temps 20 times per day, but I suppose I have no other choice.

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:rolleyes: The whole reason to use a thermostat correctly (including proper placement of the probe) is so that you DON'T have to reach into the tank and check temps 20 times per day. A properly used reliable thermostat won't allow for temperatures that are too cold or too warm - that's the whole point and why we're trying to help (because your other choices involve possible harm to your snake).

:soapbx:
Soap box time! I seriously wish that thermostats didn't have numeric temperature reading displays on them at all. People get too worked up about the "temperature" of their thermostat and how or why it's not the same as the temperature of their hot spot and why they still need to check the temperature of that hot spot if "that's why I spent so much money on this thermostat!". Someone should design a mid-range proportional thermostat with color settings instead of numbers (like a rheostat's dial). In my head, that would make things so much easier to explain when these discussions happen.

So, I talked to the exotic pet shop I got the thermostat from and he was asking if he sold it to me. He asked that because he started it wasn't needed. He said that there is no need for a thermostat because the reptile uth's now have like a built in thermostat that will shut itself off. This is why the thermostat is turning on and off so much. They are battling back and forth with the different temps. No returns or refunds and basically just said sorry. Is this true? I have a zoomed uth. WTF? And yet, everyone is shouting that you need a thermostat with the uth. This is a reputable shop and had never steered me wrong until now.

You need a thermostat. Listen to the great advice you were given by the other forum members. They are giving you advice based on experience. I can't comment on your pet shop employee, but I'd just stick to the advice on here.

There are uth that are not supposed to get to hot by design but they do not have built in tstats and they should still be used with a tstat in most cases.

These are what he would be referring to. I have one but I still needed a tstat to make it temp friendly for my blood. I tested this with a thick layer of cypress mulch over it and unregulated it got above 110F. http://www.reptilebasics.com/ultratherm-heat-pads

The Zoomed uth is for sure not that model and will really cook if left unregulated.

If you arent using flexwatt (which you arent). You can slide your probe inside of the plastic that surrounds the heating element. This will allow you to insert the probe against your UTH without removing it from the tank, and without using tape.
You MUST be very careful when you do this. First, make sure you dont have power connected to the UTH. Then, take a very sharp exacto knife, and cut a slit in the plastic on the underside on the UTH. I prefer to cut the slit near the center of the UTH. You must be very careful when you do this, because you dont want to cut the heating element inside the plastic cover. You also dont want to expose any of the electrical elements inside. I make the slit just big enough to slide the probe inside.
Once the probe is inside, then you can hook the UTH back up to the thermostat.
As mentioned above, you will have to adjust the thermostat so that you get the desired temperature inside your tank. In my experience, there could me anywhere from a 10 degree to 4 degree differential.
In other words, if you want your hot spot to be 90 degrees F, then set your thermostat to 95 degrees. (theres going to be some temperature loss through the glass/substrate/plastic/paper/etc. After your thermostat gets to temp, take the temperature gun and measure the actual temperature inside your tank where the hotspot should be. If its low, you need to turn the thermostat up. If the infrared temp gun is reading high, then you need to turn your thermostat down.
I hope this was helpful. Let us know if you have any other questions.

Personally, i think a thermostat is the one thing you should not get "cheap" on when buying equipment for your snake. Its kinda like buying a cheap helmet for your new motorcycle. That thermostat could save your snakes life, just like the helmet.

I thought the guy was misinformed because if doesn't regret to any kind of regulator on the packaging of the uth. Thank you everyone. I've been trying the probe under the tank and it seems to have balanced out. Thanks again for the advice.

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Originally Posted by pinheadjas

Thx everyone. I'll put the probe underneath and get the surface temp.

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I had the same situation - UTH already stuck on and the glass terrarium weighs 40 pounds or more so...
Bought a small roll of aluminium tape from hardware store for around $4.
Propped up the UTH side of enclosure with a stack of books,
The probe wire has a few kinks, and had to rotate the wire so the probe was pressed up against the glass, then affixed it with the tape, near where the hide is placed. It's not going to move now.

http://i58.tinypic.com/34qseok.jpg

I find that with the probe (thermostat) set to 90, the temp of the glass inside the tank above the probe where the hide sits is also 90.

Mine is set up like this but I have to set thermostat at 100 to get it to read 90 in tank


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