Why rats over mice?

Hey!

So, maybe this is a dumb question. I'm adopting my first ball on satuday, and poking around for places to get feeders for him. I am fairly certain he is on mice now, and I hear that converting to rats is the way to go. Most of the things I read say to go for rats. I have also heard it go so far as people saying ball pythons should not be fed on a diet of mice, and should only be rats. In bold italicized letters.

Why is this? It seems like just a size thing, rats being bigger, but that doesn't seem like enough to warrant the push for people to feed rats instead of mice. Is there a major difference in the nutrition between them, or? They seem very similar to me, but there's obviously something I'm missing.

Thanks again :)

It is a size thing. And a price thing. Some breeders stuck with "mousers" take years to get females up to size. And have to feed up to 6 adult mice. With rats you can feed one prey item. Which is more cost effective, and all around easier.

I breed rats for my snakes. The rats also don't seem to smell anywhere near as bad as mice do.

Gram per gram it's all the same.

Feed what works! If you want to feed mice feed mice.

Why do I feed rats because I did rather feed 1 medium rat (around 120 grams) than 4 mice.



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Feed what works for you
Don't believe everything you read either LoL

After 10g (the weight of a rat pup) Rats have a tiny bit more calories than Mice per gram.

http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp

Thanks for all the answers! Looks like it's not a huge deal. I was looking for somewhere local to buy feeders that isn't petco - I'd like to order them but I want to see what he eats as well as what size first, so I figured I'd get both a rat and a mouse just in case. So it made me wonder :) Thanks much! :D

There are a few different arguments I have heard. One is that it can be pretty inconvenient to feed mice to an adult bp because they quickly reach a size where one mouse will not be enough. Rats get bigger so they can be kept on rats their entire life, just keep increasing the size of rat as needed. Because bps are already known as picky eaters, it can be hard to switch them once they are used to something. Maybe if you were to feed both somewhat regularly you would minimize the transition if you ever do switch to only rats as your snake outgrows the mice. Feeding rats is just cheaper and simpler when they reach adult size

As far as nutrition goes, I have also read the argument that rats are more nutritious than mice. There are differences in content between rats and mice, but whether these are significant enough to really be an issue is still up for debate. Many snakes have lived our their entire lives on mice (usually because they refuse to eat rats) and are perfectly healthy, so the issue is really what is easier for you as the snake is going to be fine either way. Most people seem to agree though that getting them used to and keeping them on rats is the way to go.

My advice would be to find out what the snake has been eating when you get it. If it is on rats I would consider that fortunate and keep it that way. If it is on mice I would still say to try offering a rat and see if it is willing to eat it, and continue feeding rats if it is. If you do wind up with a snake that will only eat mice don't stress it, but always be thinking of care requirements down the road and try to set things up to have as few problems come up later as possible. :)

Just curious. Isnt it bad for the snake have to eat four times a week. Like stressful to it's muscles? I thought that it would be since they always say to feed once a week


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At some point you have to consider whether or not you're stressing their digestive system. They can only digest so much material so rapidly... that being said if you have a 2000g adult that you never switched over to rats its going to take a lot of mice to keep it fed properly and because of the size of the animal it can handle more material to digest.

I think, just from a sustained stress on digestive system vs. spiky stress that it would be preferable to feed frequently than to feed several animals once a week.

People feed once a week because its convenient and other personal preferences. There is no biological reason to feed once a week.

As others have said, the primary advantages for feeding rats over mice is cost, convenience, and time. It's cheaper, easier, and quicker to feed one small (80g) rat instead of 3-4 mice.

Now dont rats bite though i am scared to throw a live rat in my guys feeding tank when he is large enough. And i have tried feeding him f/t mouse and he wanted nothing to do with it..

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Originally Posted by SpecialGreg

Now dont rats bite though i am scared to throw a live rat in my guys feeding tank when he is large enough. And i have tried feeding him f/t mouse and he wanted nothing to do with it..

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Anything with a mouth and teeth bites :rolleyes:

As far as aggressive behavior (I breed both rats and mice) mice are more jumpy and a little more aggressive than rats.

Now when feeding live there are keys to successfully feeding.

I am feeding over 250 live rats a month to my BP (main collection not counting hatchlings), this is a small number however I never had any issue doing so since 2006.

The important points are

Feed a prey that is not too large (BP do not need anything larger than a medium rat once adult)
Do not stress the prey
Make sure the prey is well fed and hydrated (offer food and water before feeding if you purchase live feeders from a third party)

The right feeder will not even realize what is happening in most cases will even fall asleep in a corner if the snake is not hungry.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Anything with a mouth and teeth bites :rolleyes:

As far as aggressive behavior (I breed both rats and mice) mice are more jumpy and a little more aggressive than rats.

Now when feeding live there are keys to successfully feeding.

I am feeding over 250 live rats a month to my BP (main collection not counting hatchlings), this is a small number however I never had any issue doing so since 2006.

The important points are

Feed a prey that is not too large (BP do not need anything larger than a medium rat once adult)
Do not stress the prey
Make sure the prey is well fed and hydrated (offer food and water before feeding if you purchase live feeders from a third party)

The right feeder will not even realize what is happening in most cases will even fall asleep in a corner if the snake is not hungry.

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Ok. Dont roll your eyes at me!!! Ha ha i just remeber as a younger kid my faters boa had some scars on it from a rat biting it while it was constricting it. And didnt want that to happen to my beautiful boy. Thank you for the tips will def make sure to do all that before feeding him his first rat. [emoji6]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Anything with a mouth and teeth bites :rolleyes:

As far as aggressive behavior (I breed both rats and mice) mice are more jumpy and a little more aggressive than rats.

Now when feeding live there are keys to successfully feeding.

I am feeding over 250 live rats a month to my BP (main collection not counting hatchlings), this is a small number however I never had any issue doing so since 2006.

The important points are

Feed a prey that is not too large (BP do not need anything larger than a medium rat once adult)
Do not stress the prey
Make sure the prey is well fed and hydrated (offer food and water before feeding if you purchase live feeders from a third party)

The right feeder will not even realize what is happening in most cases will even fall asleep in a corner if the snake is not hungry.

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Ok. Dont roll your eyes at me!!! Ha ha i just remeber as a younger kid my faters boa had some scars on it from a rat biting it while it was constricting it. And didnt want that to happen to my beautiful boy. Thank you for the tips will def make sure to do all that before feeding him his first rat. [emoji6]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SpecialGreg

Ok. Dont roll your eyes at me!!! Ha ha i just remeber as a younger kid my faters boa had some scars on it from a rat biting it while it was constricting it. And didnt want that to happen to my beautiful boy. Thank you for the tips will def make sure to do all that before feeding him his first rat. [emoji6]

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FT would take care of that problem [emoji6]

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Originally Posted by Rob

FT would take care of that problem [emoji6]

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Ya if you read up a little bit my guys wants nothing to do with f/t.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SpecialGreg

Ya if you read up a little bit my guys wants nothing to do with f/t.

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Same here [emoji53]


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Solarsoldier001

Just curious. Isnt it bad for the snake have to eat four times a week. Like stressful to it's muscles? I thought that it would be since they always say to feed once a week


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If you are referring to Deborah's post about four mice - that's in one feeding, not four individual mice on four different feedings. :)

When I first started keeping ball pythons, I raised up all my females on mice, because that's all I had available. It was a pain, but it wasn't detrimental to them in any way.

A mouser can be changed over to rats with persistance. If they have good weight on them, they get offered a rat, if they refuse, they are offered a rat a week later. Eventually, they'll change over (with a constant eye to make sure they aren't losing significant weight - which can take quite some time).

A trick that always worked for me - is I asked for mouse bedding from the pet shop and kept it in a baggy at home. On feeding day, I'd drop a handful into the front of the snake's enclosure. As she would come out, sniffing for the mouse she could smell, I'd drop in an appropriately sized rat. Since she was already in hunting mode, she was primed to strike and take the rat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SpecialGreg

Ya if you read up a little bit my guys wants nothing to do with f/t.

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Persistence

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SpecialGreg

Ya if you read up a little bit my guys wants nothing to do with f/t.

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One thing to consider: I am new to feeding FT and i was shocked by how much effort is required to get FT rats to be truly hot enough to elicit a feeding response in my animals. When I feed FT I put 4 frozen small rats in a 110 degree 3 gallon bucket of water. I cover the bucket and wait an hour. I change the water and add new 110 degree water. I cover and wait another 45 min or so. At this point, I take the temp on the rats. The water is still hotter than 100 degrees, but the rat abdomen is in the mid to high 80's. I dry them and then bring them to temp the rest of the way with a hair drier set to medium heat. It takes like 10 min of hair drying to get them warmer than 100 degrees.

When I was feeding cooler (no hair drier) I was getting no strikes. All of this happens in my garage, so i doubt that the scent of the hair dryer warmed rat is whats making the difference.

Feed after dark and if you dont get a strike, leave the rat in the cage overnight and stay out of the room that the snake is located in. Check on it in the morning and remove the rat if it is still uneaten.

Once you have your snake switched over, husbandry becomes much easier and much less expensive. Living rats (or 4 adult mice) will cost ~$5. A small rat ordered mail order is ~$1.25.

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Originally Posted by chrisv

Living rats (or 4 adult mice) will cost ~$5. A small rat ordered mail order is ~$1.25.

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Good advice but WoW you are buying feeders from the wrong people if you are paying $5 for a live rat.

Pitt, a live rat the right size for an adult bp is 7-10 bucks in my area, unless I was to get them at the local show once a month, which isn't entirely local since it's an hour away. Hence having to breed my own.
Now to the point of this thread, I have a couple individuals that will not take multiple prey items, so if they were stuck on mice it would be a real issue getting enough food in them.

Put your rats in dirty, smelly mouse bedding. You can switch a mouser over pretty easily that way.....