Trying to KEEP my BP healthy

1. How long have you had your ball python?
1 1/2 weeks



2. How old (or how big) is your snake?
1 year


3. Does it eat on a regular schedule?
first time, no problem. it was fresh kill. second time, refused to eat. I defrosted hopper rat (same size rat as before) in plastic bag. he bit it a few times but drew back each time.


4. How long since its last meal?
2 weeks


5. What type/size prey is being offered?
hopper rat


6. How often do you offer food?
1 time, all night


7. What type and size of enclosure does it live in?
10 gal tank


8. What are you using as substrate? If it has depth, how deep is it?
felt mat


9. What type of heating do you use?
bottom heater and heat lamp


10. Do you use a thermostat to control temperatures?
no, but it stays consistently at 80 degrees as night and goes up to 84 during the day (I turn on the heating lamp during the day).



11. What do you use to measure/monitor temperatures?
tank thermometer placed low in the tank on warmer side.


12. What are the surface and ambient temperatures in the enclosure?
80% on warmer side.


13. What is the average humidity level?
40 to 50%


14. How many and what type of hides does the snake have?
1 hide (I had been told he'd be okay with that for about 4mohth. my husband is building an enclosure for him.)


15. Is water readily available at all times?
yes


16. Does the snake live alone or does it share the enclosure with anything else?
alone


17. How often and for how long is the snake typically handled?
once per day (at nite) and usually between 1 - 2 hours at a time (he seemed to "like" it ... being inquisitive but sweet).


18. Does the snake have any medical history (old injuries or illnesses)?
not to my knowledge


19. Do you have any other reptiles? Have you brought in any new reptiles recently?
no


20. Is there anything specific or unique about your situation that we should be aware of?
just that I got my BP at the reptile show and should have prepared better. of course, the store that showed the snake did want to sell, so they told me all would be fine. ... my bad, really.

Do you have a question?

I've been reading a lot in the 1 1/2 weeks that I have him, but the one question that I cannot find an answer for is this:

Should I offer him food after having refused one meal (a week ago) AND while he is apparently starting a shed?
His eyes are milky. To the touch, he feels less solid than he did a week ago. He willingly let me take him out of the tank yesterday and he just rested in my arms. He seemed content but not inquisitive as he normally is.
My hunch is, I should not offer hopper rat or anything until he completes shed, but I also do not want to starve him unnecessarily.
Can someone please help me? He does look healthy all other ... I've been keeping his tank very clean and thought that I am being good for taking him out ... It's gotta be so boring to any creature to not be able to explore his environment.

YES! THANK YOU SO VERY, VERY MUCH ! Here's the question:

I've been reading a lot in the 1 1/2 weeks that I have him, but the one question that I cannot find an answer for is this:

Should I offer him food after having refused one meal (a week ago) AND while he is apparently starting a shed?
His eyes are milky. To the touch, he feels less solid than he did a week ago. He willingly let me take him out of the tank yesterday and he just rested in my arms. He seemed content but not inquisitive as he normally is.
My hunch is, I should not offer hopper rat or anything until he completes shed, but I also do not want to starve him unnecessarily.
Can someone please help me? He does look healthy all other ... I've been keeping his tank very clean and been taking him out almost every day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maxima

I've been reading a lot in the 1 1/2 weeks that I have him, but the one question that I cannot find an answer for is this:

Should I offer him food after having refused one meal (a week ago) AND while he is apparently starting a shed?
His eyes are milky. To the touch, he feels less solid than he did a week ago. He willingly let me take him out of the tank yesterday and he just rested in my arms. He seemed content but not inquisitive as he normally is.
My hunch is, I should not offer hopper rat or anything until he completes shed, but I also do not want to starve him unnecessarily.
Can someone please help me?

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I wouldn't worry about feeding him until he's done with his shed. The rest of his behaviors are likely because he's going through this process. He's probably got less than a week left until he's done. Just remember to keep his humidity up until then. Here's a good article to read on this process (if you haven't already done so): http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...edding-Process.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maxima

He does look healthy all other ... I've been keeping his tank very clean and thought that I am being good for taking him out ... It's gotta be so boring to any creature to not be able to explore his environment.

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Ball pythons all have different personalities. Some don't mind being handled at all - some get stressed out by it and the only way you'll know that they are stressed is because they'll start refusing to eat. You also should know that a "boring" ball python is typically a happy ball python. Boring = comfortable. Most of them will come out of their hides and explore at night, but they're known for being pet rocks during the day. My recommendation for you is that because you just got him less than 2 weeks ago, and he's shedding, and he refused a meal already in your care, is to take yourself out of his world for awhile (as difficult as that may be). Still give him everything he needs (clean cage, water, warm spot, humidity, etc), but try not to hold him until he's done shedding and has eaten a few (at least three) meals while in your care.

What ever should you do when you wish you could be holding him? Here's some light reading that you'll definitely enjoy!

• Ball Python Caresheet: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...s%29-Caresheet
• Glass Tank Setup: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...With-Pictures!
• Defrosting Feeders: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...efrost-feeders
• Bad Shed? (just in case): http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...hed-No-problem

And, last but not least, welcome to the forums! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

I wouldn't worry about feeding him until he's done with his shed. The rest of his behaviors are likely because he's going through this process. He's probably got less than a week left until he's done. Just remember to keep his humidity up until then. Here's a good article to read on this process (if you haven't already done so): http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...edding-Process.

Ball pythons all have different personalities. Some don't mind being handled at all - some get stressed out by it and the only way you'll know that they are stressed is because they'll start refusing to eat. You also should know that a "boring" ball python is typically a happy ball python. Boring = comfortable. Most of them will come out of their hides and explore at night, but they're known for being pet rocks during the day. My recommendation for you is that because you just got him less than 2 weeks ago, and he's shedding, and he refused a meal already in your care, is to take yourself out of his world for awhile (as difficult as that may be). Still give him everything he needs (clean cage, water, warm spot, humidity, etc), but try not to hold him until he's done shedding and has eaten a few (at least three) meals while in your care.

What ever should you do when you wish you could be holding him? Here's some light reading that you'll definitely enjoy!

• Ball Python Caresheet: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...s%29-Caresheet
• Glass Tank Setup: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...With-Pictures!
• Defrosting Feeders: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...efrost-feeders
• Bad Shed? (just in case): http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...hed-No-problem

And, last but not least, welcome to the forums! :D

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Thank you so very much! I will heed your advice, and I shall be patient and allow him to become a happy and bored BP. His name is Max, by the way. Will have to take him out if tank gets messy, but I will abstain from cleaning a clean tank as well. I'll be able to refill his water dish without disturbing him too much. His new enclosure should be ready within a couple of months, and I've been checking out a lot of articles on what to put in it.

Wait no tstat,???? Go get one if you want to keep ypur snake healthy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frostysBP

Wait no tstat,???? Go get one if you want to keep ypur snake healthy.

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THIS!!! Your thermometer isn't reading the temperature of the glass over the heat pad, it's reading the air temp above it. It could be hot enough to burn your snake on the glass.

Also you mentioned that the tank is about 80-84 on the hot side, but the temperature needs to be very close to 90 degrees for a ball python (89-91 degrees). If temps aren't right it really deters bps from eating


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ballpythoncrazy

Also you mentioned that the tank is about 80-84 on the hot side, but the temperature needs to be very close to 90 degrees for a ball python (89-91 degrees). If temps aren't right it really deters bps from eating

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Hold, please! The only reason the thermometer is reading 80-84 on the hot side is because the OP said it's not actually reading the hot spot and instead is reading the ambient temperature above the hot spot. Please don't advise higher temperatures when the actual temperatures are likely higher due to inaccurate measurement. :)

Thank you very much to all! I am having a day off today and am getting a new tank for him that is bigger. However, for now I will have to keep him in the smaller tank so that he can feed before having to get used to another environment again. Thinking of waiting out two feeds. Also, the hopper rat may be slightly on the too large side. I used that size because he'd been fed that before, but the first feed, when he ate it, I could see the whole rat outlined on his body. Feet and all.
The tank may be getting a bit to cool on the hot side. To the touch, the glass is very cool. The bottom on the hot side is only slightly warmer than my hand. Today I am getting thermometers to get an actual reading of these surfaces.
I will close off the air conditioner vent for that room as well so it stays warmer in there. That should help keeping up the temp. Also I'll get an infrared light bulb for the heating so I can keep it on overnight. (Before I'd turn off heat lamp to maintain day/night cycle, but that caused the temp to go to 78 degrees. That's air temp above the hot spot. Cool glass.)
Getting pretty good ideas of what to do, just never sure if it's the right thing. That's why I appreciate your feedback so much.
By the way, he is almost done with his shed. Though it was a bad shed... No surprise.
I am quite surprised how much I am messing up with my poor Ball. Had a corn snake before and NEVER a problem. I guess the environment for my Ball must be much more adjusted because this is not normal environment for him here in Sacramento area.
Well. I am all set to fix everything. Your advice is much appreciated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maxima

The tank may be getting a bit to cool on the hot side. To the touch, the glass is very cool. The bottom on the hot side is only slightly warmer than my hand. Today I am getting thermometers to get an actual reading of these surfaces.

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What kind of thermometer are you getting? I love buying snake stuff and am always curious! :)

Hi Eric! Educational Sunday! I left some messages on Craig's List to get a 40 gallon tank ... Just don't think the fancy one that my husband was going to build, is going to happen soon enough. So I'll take the next couple of weeks to create a nice environment for right now. The 10 gallons make me feel horrible. That way, my husband can take his time and really get into his creative place after his existing projects are done. This will allow me to have a larger water container and 2 separate hides, maybe 3,
Plus a rock that allows him (Max, not my husband) to get closer to the infrared light if he wants to. I like the infrared light. This will allow me to keep the temp up at night. ... In the hot side.
A thermometer for the glass and the bottom did not happen. Just couldn't find anything like that. However, since I have the glass covered with the little felty terrarium carpet, there's just no chance he could get burned on that.

I am nervous since my husband is building a wall and there is SO much noise. While I was picking up my stuff, the smoke alarm went off too. Ugh!

On top of that, I will have to take Max out again tonight to clean up. He spilled too much water, and I don't want his nice new skin to get infected from too much moisture. He's pretty happy when I take him out though and very inquisitive again. For this week everything should be calm in the house. I'll let him complete his shed, give him another day of silence and try to feed him again.

Also what's interesting: there are a bunch of YouTube videos that show how to feed frozen and thawed mice and rats. I didn't do it right. I just laid the hopper in the box and expected him to feed on it. I didn't wiggle it or offer it nose first. Maybe I'll drive a little further and get him fresh kill one more time. ... That was the only time he ate, when I gave him fresh kill. And THAT was 2 days after I brought him home, after he'd been out at the fair all day, touched by so many people, in a smaller tank than he's used to -- go figure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maxima

A thermometer for the glass and the bottom did not happen. Just couldn't find anything like that. However, since I have the glass covered with the little felty terrarium carpet, there's just no chance he could get burned on that.

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Not sure where you're at, but try places other than pet stores for a thermometer. Hardware stores (Home Depot, Lowes, etc) have infrared temp guns in the $20 range that work perfectly for our application.

Also, just so you're aware, BPs are notorious for being able to find their way under their substrate (either burying down in bedding, or "tucking them self in" under carpet or paper towels). I wouldn't be comfortable with just a layer of cage carpet between your snake and a heat pad that's not being controlled by a thermostat. If you can move the carpet, chances are your BP will too.

Thanks for the warning. I put another hide on top of it. He should be safe for the night. This hide is much heavier. I had meant it for the new enclosure. I may have enough time to look again to get a thermostat tomorrow.

He has 2 hides now. Warmer and cooler side. I guess that's a change too ... I'd rather chance that than him getting underneath that carpet.

Also, I'm going to add that a rat hopper (pup, I think?) seems kind of small for a year old BP. Get a digital scale and a weight on him and feed him at 10-15%, or eyeball it to being about as wide as his THICKEST part - as in, of his body, not his neck. Their necks are basically an elastic bag attached to their spine. They expand a crazy amount.

Oh wow! I almost was going to go smaller! Have to say after watching all the YouTube Videos, that the freshly killed hopper was a LOT larger than the defrosted ones. They just seem to sort of shrink down quite a bit.

Most of the shrinkage appearance is from being packaged - they're just less fluffy. They stretch out like that while they're being eaten, too.


http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...p-feeding-pics This whole thread is decent for size of prey/animal ratio and just how much snakes stretch. Or this one: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...eding-pictures

Or, well.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3743/...7fd4f0d4_o.jpg
This is my normal when she was stuck on mice. It's a good example of prey that's TOO SMALL.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7407/...5a4f8798_o.jpg
This is right.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3691/...cc230b08_o.jpg

They really DO stretch a TON.

Thanks! I was able to take care of this today. Got a infrared light to keep on all night and closed the A/C vent in the room. Finally, I also got a larger tank today and will be able to finish it in a week. Was going to wait for 2 feeds before moving him over to the bigger and better space (yes, I'll have at least 3 hides in it and plenty of leafy vines, ...). I have learned so much today from you and all the cool people advising here on this forum. Printed the care sheet and other info, read it and found a lot of other material in the process. Finished my small care books as well. I may just have to move him by the end of the week, after hopefully one feed. That way I have all the heat-regulating things in place and a better chance to get him feeding again if he hasn't yet by that time. :)

These pics are very helpful. Thank you. That last one with the neck having expanded so much is especially interesting.

Word of caution, I used the felt carpet back when my snakes were in tanks and my butter bee ALWAYS hid underneath it. She would knock over her hides and even her large and rather heavy water bowl in the process. Definitely get some way to monitor and control your UTH even if it's a cheap dimmer from lowes

You may also want to consider covering the outsides of the glass tank with construction paper (can leave a few inches along top of front pane open for checking on him). This helps make the entire tank sort of a "virtual hide," and makes your pet feel more safe and secure. I also refrain from handling my snake more than about 10-15 minutes on any given day, but that's just me.