Head resting up viv wall normal? Picture

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...c25e380a0a.jpg

She does this quite a lot either head up on her hide or up the wall ? Anybody's do this?

That's a cool looking setup! Did you build it? Just because I'm curious, what do you use to heat it? Also, what temperature do you keep her cage at and how do you measure/control it?

She's in a monkfield viv 36" long and just 12" height it's an ideal size. Wood and glass.
Floor and roof is glass, although the heat mat on floor wasn't enough so took the glass out of lid/roof replaced with mesh and sat a heat lamp on top now.
Pic below isn't mine but same vivarium.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...58699fde72.jpg

Those look like a pretty cool design! I just went to their website. Can you actually get to the heat mat from inside the enclosure, or is it sandwiched underneath a piece of glass by sliding it in from the back?

Also, you didn't mention anything about your temperatures. How did you decide that the heat mat on bottom wasn't enough? What temperature was it and how/where did you measure it?

There are two pieces of glass in the floor, slide heatmat between the two.
I live in the uk and my house is around 68-72f and the heatmat did nothing to raise ambient temps in the viv. Although all the reptile shops say all they need is a heatmat any your good!
Ive got digital thermometer monitoring ambients and temp gun to read surface temps

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Originally Posted by Ash81

There are two pieces of glass in the floor, slide heatmat between the two.

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Perfect!

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Originally Posted by Ash81

I live in the uk and my house is around 68-72f and the heatmat did nothing to raise ambient temps in the viv. Although all the reptile shops say all they need is a heatmat any your good!

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Now we're on to something. Heat mats are not supposed to do anything to raise ambient temperatures! They are designed to only raise the temperature of whatever they are in contact with (in your case, the glass on the floor). This works well for ground dwelling snakes such as BPs. Like you've already done, heat lamps are a good solution to raise the ambient temperature. You need to make sure the glass surface isn't too hot for your snake though (which could very easily be the case).

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Originally Posted by Ash81

Ive got digital thermometer monitoring ambients and temp gun to read surface temps

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Excellent! Use that temp gun to shoot the glass in a few places directly above where the heat mat is. What temperatures do you get there?

My snake does the same thing occasionally. He doesn't head his head up that far, but he rests it on his hides when he's out. I figured he wants to see, but I also looked for signs of a RI.

After adjusting the stat the temp gun reads the actual mat at 78f yet when in between the glass floor it gives a reading of 88f directly where snake lays in the viv, I guess the glass gets warmer!

Im hoping she doesn't have an ri , she yawns quite a lot too but can't see or hear any other symptoms

Is it 88 on top of the substrate where the snake lays or directly on the glass above the mat (below the substrate) when it's in place?

Yeah 88 on the glass, as she always moves the substrate aside. Thinking of doing away with the mat anyway as with the mat and lamp the floor in the warm side is getting too hot, ambient ok but combination of the two is making the floor too hot really

I saw a BP doing this exact thing at a pet store the other day. The only thing I could think of is an RI as I know other reptiles will sit with their heads pointed straight up if they have an RI thought idk if snakes do it

My BP loves to lay on her log and rest her head on a knot a little higher than her body or if it's getting close to feeding day she will sit like this if I'm in the room like she's waiting for her dinner. Had vet check her and she doesn't have an RI. Just lines to sit like that


Molly & Steve
0.1 Normal BP. PRECIOUCESS
0.1 Normal Columbian BCI. LUNA

My boa does this occasionally, seems to just be looking for a way out.

I would leave the UTH where it is and just move your heat lamp to the center of the cage. You may need a dimmer to turn it down a bit, or raise the lamp further from the cage, so it doesn't get too hot.

I have to have the lamp at a decent wattage in order to keep ambients high enough, which make the floor around 90, if I move the lamp to middle and keep the heat mat then 3/4 of the cage floor is at 90ish!
I will keep my eye on her for other ri signs ! Hope not :-(

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...2e1d66b90b.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...b024fc5810.jpg

Actual viv set up on the top.....She in her hide right now

88-90 isn't bad, what are your ambient temps with the lamp? If you moved it to the middle and raised it from sitting directly on top of the enclosure it wouldn't be 90 in the middle, or even get a dimmer and just turn it down a bit.

Another suggestion (I currently have 2 enclosures setup this way) seal the top back up, wood would be best and put a fluorescent light in this will raise your ambient temps probably 2-3 degrees. I keep a blacklight in mine and leave them on 24/7, I was told they wouldn't affect my snakes and I haven't noticed anything.

Nice setups! I'm sure you know but be careful with the sand for you beardie.

This behavior paired with the nose rubbing and regular yawning you mentioned in your last thread about this definitely screams respiratory infection.

Snakes rest with their heads up, exactly like in your pictures, when they have respiratory infections. While Boas will often just sit and stare upwards, it is not normal behavior for a ball. If you had no other symptoms, I wouldn't be as concerned, but since you do, I'd say it's time to take her to a vet.

I have to have the lamp where it is and its on a dimmer but I have to have it where it is just to get my cool side up to 76! Which like I say makes the floor a certain temp, so I can't raise or turn the lamp down as my ambient would be even cooler, the warm side ambient is around 83f.
The beardie is my partners , she got it from a reptile shop/breeder with a good reputation who swears he has always kept them on calci sand and is absolutely fine as long as the dragon is looked after properly with temps/food etc.... That's a whole other debate lol.

I don't see any real signs of an ri , I've read a lot of people's balls yawn and is quite normal, the nose rubbing began after her shed so maybe stuck shed? I won't be taking her vets just yet, she is not showing any signs of mucus or wheezing, inside her mouth is ok, she is eating and active in the evening. But I will be watching for any signs progressing as its my first snake so I'm no expert. Thanks again

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...5ad2a4ae2a.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...ab6886d75c.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...e139d1fe42.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...d430c87a43.jpg

Making her way to the cooler hide this morning

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Originally Posted by Ash81

I don't see any real signs of an ri , I've read a lot of people's balls yawn and is quite normal, the nose rubbing began after her shed so maybe stuck shed? I won't be taking her vets just yet, she is not showing any signs of mucus or wheezing, inside her mouth is ok, she is eating and active in the evening. But I will be watching for any signs progressing as its my first snake so I'm no expert. Thanks again

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Yes, snakes yawn, and it's normal. Yes, snakes can rest with their heads up and it can be perfectly normal. Yes, they can rub their noses following a shed if there is stuck shed. The odds of all three occurring at the same time, and regularly? Extremely unlikely that it is all coincidental. I would not chalk it up to coincidence and wait to see if she gets worse and starts spewing mucus. Snakes hide illness well, and you may not be CONVINCED that anything is actually wrong until your animal is dangerously ill. These are all three warning signs, specifically correlated, that indicate RI. If my snake were exhibiting these behaviors, I would be taking him or her to the vet before it were too late. With snakes, it is not simply a few days of antibiotics and poof! All better! RI's are no joke.

Having dealt with this personally, I am simply trying to warn you and strongly encouraging you to err on the side of caution.

If the vet clears your animal, then all the better. But I would not risk the alternative and wait.

I won't be taking her to the vet YET for two reasons , she doesn't seem ill or sick to me and I've already wasted hundreds of pounds cash on the snake, that I've only owned around a month! Due to the idiots that sell snakes in reptile shops failing to say what a royal actually needs and failing to mention the starter kit they sell you is a load of useless crap!
in the month I've had her I've bought three different vivs, various heating elements and temp probes/guns etc... You name it I've bought it, so after wiping my bank account clean I refuse to find more hundreds in cash to take her to the vet because she holds her head up! If anything this snake will go back to the shop she came from as she has cost me a small fortune and now after all that cost and best intentions now she maybe sick! I've had enough of all these forums with nothing but contradicting advise, what is a new owner to do, who should they listen to for advise, it's ridiculous!
My royal was sold to me at a reputable reptile shop, with a starter kit and heat mat that's all they need!
Really!! Now it seems I need specific temps on all areas of the floor, then I need specific air temps also, then the humidity needs to be this and that, then I can't house her in a viv, must be a rub etc etc etc etc.....
What is a newbie suppose to do, I wish I didn't care like most owners obviously don't , have a crappy glass tank with stick on thermometers! I go out and buy everything she could possibly need, my house looks like a reptile shop I'm not joking, so after all that she is now sick...... Well I give up!

Your setup is lovely, the fact that she may be ill is almost certainly not a result of that. In fact, she very well could have been coming down with it when you purchased her. Who knows? You've done a wonderful job with the setup, and the fact that there are lots of housing options is irrelevant if yours works for your animal. Kudos to you for putting in the effort. But purchasing an animal also has associated vet costs at one point or another. In fact, after spending quite a lot of money on the setup for my first snake, I ended up spending hundreds on vet bills for a RI that she must have already had, and all in the first two months. It happens. If it is not a cost you are comfortable with, then don't purchase an animal. After a month, most shops and breeders will not take the animal back. I'm not trying to be inflammatory, I'm just being honest.

On a forum, you will always receive varying opinions. I would perhaps give a little more weight to those with more experience, over others, but that is my opinion. At any rate, you will do as you wish regardless of the advice offered. If you do not want the responses, don't ask the question. Simple as that. And I do not appreciate being ranted at when I've offered advice that was asked for. As such, you will receive no more from me.

Best of luck with your snake.

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Originally Posted by Ash81

she is eating

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For whatever it's worth, I think as long as she's eating regularly, she's probably fine.

I do have to agree here with WarriorPrincess90,

We all understand you are annoyed and irritated by all the different things you read and people tell you, but that is no reason to take it out on her while she is only trying to help you and your snake!!

Now my 2 cents, I dont think at this point it is an RI for a couple of reasons.

1. She is eating, in my understanding snakes with RI stop eating.
2. You mention nothing about slime/mucus being anywhere in her mouth or on the walls of your viv.
3. you mention nothing about her making weird noises wich usually come with RI.

now i could be wrong, i am not an expert but the only way to make sure everything is ok with your BP is to take her to a vet. if she is healthy you will only pay for the consult wich shouldnt be to expansive but then you can enjoy your BP knowing there is nothing going on.

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Originally Posted by Ash81

I won't be taking her to the vet YET for two reasons , she doesn't seem ill or sick to me and I've already wasted hundreds of pounds cash on the snake, that I've only owned around a month! Due to the idiots that sell snakes in reptile shops failing to say what a royal actually needs and failing to mention the starter kit they sell you is a load of useless crap!
in the month I've had her I've bought three different vivs, various heating elements and temp probes/guns etc... You name it I've bought it, so after wiping my bank account clean I refuse to find more hundreds in cash to take her to the vet because she holds her head up! If anything this snake will go back to the shop she came from as she has cost me a small fortune and now after all that cost and best intentions now she maybe sick! I've had enough of all these forums with nothing but contradicting advise, what is a new owner to do, who should they listen to for advise, it's ridiculous!
My royal was sold to me at a reputable reptile shop, with a starter kit and heat mat that's all they need!
Really!! Now it seems I need specific temps on all areas of the floor, then I need specific air temps also, then the humidity needs to be this and that, then I can't house her in a viv, must be a rub etc etc etc etc.....
What is a newbie suppose to do, I wish I didn't care like most owners obviously don't , have a crappy glass tank with stick on thermometers! I go out and buy everything she could possibly need, my house looks like a reptile shop I'm not joking, so after all that she is now sick...... Well I give up!

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I understand your frustration. Almost everyone starting out buys the wrong stuff because, as you said, the "here is everything you need for your snake starter kit all wrapped up in one neat box!!!" that is sold in the pet stores is totally wrong for BP's. When is the last time you walked into a shop and saw a rack/tub setup for sale? Or even a decent thermostat?

You also have to remember that stores are in the business of selling stuff, especially highly marked-up equipment. Most specialty stores do not make it their business to research which stuff is best suited for your purpose. It's up to you to determine whether or not your purchases are appropriate for your critter. Frankly, they love customers like you - because you keep coming back despite their crappy customer service and advice - and that goes for more than just reptile stores!

To answer your question about the RI...
Is your snake resting for long periods of time with her head and neck straight up along one side or in the corner of the enclosure?
When she yawns do you see lines of mucous between her jaws?
Does she have bubbles in her mouth, throat, or coming out of her nose?
If you pick her up, let her rest, and put your ear close to her head, do you hear any popping or wheezing sounds as she breathes?
If you hold her hand under the front third of her body so you can feel her lung when she breathes, does she feel congested like a hose with air & water gurgling through it, or is she clear?
Has she stopped eating?

If the answer to all of those is 'No' then most likely her head-up attitude before wasn't due to an RI, but due to the fact that she's been in several different enclosures over the last month, and she was stressed and investigating her new home(s).

If she continues to eat, use her hides, thermoregulate, and not lay unmoving for hours with her head and neck straight up then she's likely fine.

Yeah rant over! It wasn't aimed at any individual....

Its looking like something I'm afraid, head up resting in corner for lengthy periods yes, although still hides most of the time, held her real close and saw a little bubble come from front of mouth, and then later what sounded like a very quiet sneeze?
Ive turned the temps up to an ambient of 86-80, although in the hides on the floor it's more like 94-86 ? Is that right?

I can't see any signs of mucus on the tank, or any where on the snake nor does she open mouth breath... I'm not brave enough to open her mouth for a look , plus I'm trying not to bother her much.

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Originally Posted by Ash81

Ive turned the temps up to an ambient of 86-80, although in the hides on the floor it's more like 94-86 ? Is that right?

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That will help, though I wouldn't get them any hotter.

Given the bubble and wheeze, it's time to call the vet. It will cost less to treat now than if you wait.

My female pastel het G.S. does the sane thing with her hide. Most of the time her body is mostly inside then her head is up on top of the hide looking out ward. Belly heat was my first thought but my temp inside the hide was at 89-91. I then check the ambient air temp and it was in the mid 80s. I keep 9 other snakes in the same rack as her and none of the other snakes did this. In above posts there's talk about possible RI but I'm sure mine doesn't. She's been doing this for almost 3 years now (since I got her as a juvenile). All my snakes will "yawn" normally I only see them doing that after they feed. I was told that's how they get their jaw put back into place. Anyways, I've chocked mine up to the snakes personality being the reason for this.

Adding to my post a few minutes ago... i missed where you said you heard a sneeze and a bubble... i agree with bcr229, you should probably have her checked out sooner than later. With that being said, call different vets in your area and research online as far as what vets in your area have knowledge of snakes. If I have a sick snake I'm going to drive over a 100 miles, passing dozens of vets to get to one that knows about snakes. When I got my first bp I was in the same boat as you... pet shop selling me this "starter kit" with a picture of a snake on it saying that is exactly what I needed. I spent months buying new UTH temp gun, fogger to help humidity (that was a huge waste!) And countless of other bad equipment. I could have bought all the snakes I own today for the amount I spent on my first normal ball python and all the junk! It makes me sick to think about. But, here I am years down the road and I'm addicted to snakes. So keep your head up! What you read on line and what people tell you isn't always the best way for you. You might have to tweak 10 different "right ways" to come up with the best solution/environment for you ans your snake. The more you know the better and hopefully this experience will turn into a learning experience for you and you don't quit. You'll come to find out how awesome these snakes are and you won't regret it. I hope this helps in some way... take care

Hi...... Thanks for the reply. Shortly after my last post she went cloudy and shed, all in one piece too. Since then there has been no head up the wall or resting up out of her hide. I haven't actually seen her much! She disappeared a week before shed and she still hasn't been out ( other than when I removed her hide to collect shed and spot clean) she used to be active at night but nothing anymore and now it's around 3 weeks or more without eating? I can't seem to keep up with this bp behaviour ! I hope she's ok and becomes active and eating again soon.... Thanks