Estimate how many are breeding and selling?

I know there was a thread/poll a while back about who's making money breeding pythons. About 150 people responded. About 1/2 the people were at least trying to make money or break even.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...g-Ball-Pythons

Does anyone care to guess how many people in the US are breeding BP's and selling them, trying to make some money to at least break even (ie non-normals)? Are we talking about high hundreds, or low thousands? 10k?

I would imagine a significant % of those breeders (maybe 1/4 to 1/2) would have a membership on this site, which has 44k members. So that kinda gives an upper bound idea.

My opinion is we are really close to the point where you are doing it for the love of the species and the morphs or you are mass producing for profit. All signs point to even with the newer morphs you aren't getting rich you are planning how to make your initial investment back and make a moderate profit. If you discover a desirable morph I'm sure the sky is the limit profit wise.

i dont knoe what it is like there in the US.

but here in Holland (europe) we have about 3 or 4 bigger breeders making money i guess but the tbh i dont realy inderstand how, let me explain:

when you go to a reptile show one of those bigger breeders has an lets say an pastel calico male available for 350 euro (+/-450 dollar) then when i walk on a bit i see just your regular hobby breeder with an pastel calico male for 300 euro (+/-380 dollar) now if the quallity of the animal from the bigger breeder would be better i can understand you buy the more expansive animal but..... in honesty i see alot of cheaper animals on those show that look just as good or maybe even better then the animals of the "bigger" breeders and still those bigger breeders sell their animals. and at that point i can't help thinking "it is all about the name"

and it might just be me but i would rather get an beautiful morph from some "John Doe" that is 70 dollar cheaper then an about same quallity morph from a known breeder just for the name.

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Originally Posted by ARBallMorphs

i dont knoe what it is like there in the US.

but here in Holland (europe) we have about 3 or 4 bigger breeders making money i guess but the tbh i dont realy inderstand how, let me explain:

when you go to a reptile show one of those bigger breeders has an lets say an pastel calico male available for 350 euro (+/-450 dollar) then when i walk on a bit i see just your regular hobby breeder with an pastel calico male for 300 euro (+/-380 dollar) now if the quallity of the animal from the bigger breeder would be better i can understand you buy the more expansive animal but..... in honesty i see alot of cheaper animals on those show that look just as good or maybe even better then the animals of the "bigger" breeders and still those bigger breeders sell their animals. and at that point i can't help thinking "it is all about the name"

and it might just be me but i would rather get an beautiful morph from some "John Doe" that is 70 dollar cheaper then an about same quallity morph from a known breeder just for the name.

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This perplexes me as well and it is also often, but not always true in the U.S. I got a female, trophy example of a certain morph from a small breeder for $300.00 and there are bigger breeders still charging $100.00 to $150.00 more. I guess if the animals they produce are selling at the prices they are asking, more power to them.

There are some breeders I see that I literally don't understand how their animals are selling though, I'm talking about asking prices for single and double gene animals close to triple what the average is on classifieds forums. I hear they tend to advertise at that and you are supposed to call them to get the real price though, I don't understand that, I don't even call them, I don't like haggling or insulting someone with offers.

because when you are a small breeder looking to sell offspring, quality is very important. if you focus on producing the best quality animals you can, then your animals will sell

I think small time scammers and people who sell and disappear really hurt the honest small and newer breeders. I get e-mails all the time from people asking for help who say "I would ask the guy I got it from but he won't answer my emails". I think a small up and coming breeder has it harder now then they did even a few years ago. I've gained a few customers this year that were disappointed with others they've dealt with. More important then the size of the breeder is their customer service and reputation. Is it worth a few extra bucks to get your snakes from a trusted breeder? I purchased all my snakes from a few breeders that I know well and trust and sometimes it costs me more but it was worth it.

If I stopped buying new animals I would probably make profit.... but yea.....

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

I think small time scammers and people who sell and disappear really hurt the honest small and newer breeders. I get e-mails all the time from people asking for help who say "I would ask the guy I got it from but he won't answer my emails". I think a small up and coming breeder has it harder now then they did even a few years ago. I've gained a few customers this year that were disappointed with others they've dealt with. More important then the size of the breeder is their customer service and reputation. Is it worth a few extra bucks to get your snakes from a trusted breeder? I purchased all my snakes from a few breeders that I know well and trust and sometimes it costs me more but it was worth it.

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This right here is exactly why a large, well-established breeder with a good reputation can command higher prices for the same animals that you see on a small or new breeder's table. You're not just buying an animal, you're also paying for customer service if there's a problem with that animal after you take it home.

That doesn't mean a small hobbyist can't provide the same support after the sale - and many do - it's just that without having a good reputation they can't command the higher prices. As Dave pointed out, when you do buy the less expensive animal you're taking the risk of the seller taking your money and running afterward.

Dave,

Your prices are good...on top of that you advertise your current stock. Your Facebook page looks up to date. Your photography is clear, with good lighting. There is no reason why you shouldn't be selling animals.

I see BIG breeders online, with out of date pages, no advertising, pricing that is bonkers or also out of date, it's impossible to figure out what is and isn't in stock etc. Clear concise advertising af animals so impulse buyers can paypal money on the spot and shoppers can contact you with confidence are important IMO.

Yep Dave Green is awesome. I've made two purchases from him and couldn't be happier with them and his customer service. I don't care if the breeder is big or well known. I care about their customer service and whether they are a "good guy" or not. I've bought from breeders that maybe have one review on fauna from one person and don't have a website or Facebook page or anything. Got the snake shipped out the next day, great price, great snake, and texts with updates.

I'm really looking forward to my first couple breeding seasons and the whole experience of it plus selling my first animals and starting to establish a reputation.

I try to help the small time breeders the best I can. If I even see a price like 299 I wont buy it idk why I just feel like they are in it for only money

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Originally Posted by Masonic

I try to help the small time breeders the best I can. If I even see a price like 299 I wont buy it idk why I just feel like they are in it for only money

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$299.00 for what though? You wouldn't pay $299.00 for a Banana or a GHI, right now?

Just anything ending with 99 in general I would not buy. And I do not want to drive the market down further than it already is.

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Originally Posted by Masonic

Just anything ending with 99 in general I would not buy. And I do not want to drive the market down further than it already is.

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As far as driving the market down breeders should feel comfortable if they need to discount an animals price until it sells. The reproduction of animals are not controlled enough and can't really be controlled much. As soon as males of a co-dom morph start getting out into the wild all bets are off.

What is the point of you only breeding 1 clutch of a popular morph every couple of years to keep the price where you want it if nobody else is following suit. For example I'm for sure waiting on Bananas to bottom out, I'm not going to pull the trigger. I've talked to people who do go to shows and are saying they are in the top five of most common single gene animals available for purchase.I'll pick one up next year, the project is close to saturation and I simply like the look of the morph, I have no delusions of grandeur.

I am currently paying off a banana because I have found a combo (that I will not say) that has not been done yet. Idc if they come way down in price I am not in it for the money at all.

There are a ton of banana combos not done yet. Ton of super banana combos not done yet. Saw some for 475 shipped on kingsnake today don't wait too long on the bottom it's probably there already on males.

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Originally Posted by Masonic

I am currently paying off a banana because I have found a combo (that I will not say) that has not been done yet. Idc if they come way down in price I am not in it for the money at all.

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There are many Banana morphs yet to be bred, it's pretty much going to be a staple gene in morphdom.