Help Please!

I'm sorry for posting this in the wrong place, but it has the most people surfing through at any given time.
Okay, so my dad has this corn snake that I'm pretty positive has mouth rot. I know that the snake has not been kept in good conditions, and if the snake can be helped I will make sure that changes.
There isn't a vet around here that specializes with reptiles, and if there is one that I'm not aware of, nobody has the money to take the snake.
So I would like to know what I can do, if anything, for the corn. Help would be much appreciated, and if you need pictures I will try my best to get a good couple photos. I've never had a snake with anything worse than mites, so I don't know what to do, and neither does my father.
I've looked it up on Google, but it's not telling me what I need to know.

I've never treated for it but in looking at some of the other forums other folks swab with either betadine or Listerine mouthwash.

I'm going to tell my father to purchase some betadine today, but do you think it matters what brand the mouthwash is? I don't have Listerine.

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Originally Posted by Fraido

I'm going to tell my father to purchase some betadine today, but do you think it matters what brand the mouthwash is? I don't have Listerine.

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Scratch that, I do have Listerine.

I have also not treated for mouth rot, but I have treated orally and a suggestion I was given that may also be helpful here, is to soak the animal before you treat.

This way the snake is well hydrated and wont, in any off chance it might, drink for a little bit after you return it to it's enclosure. This can keep the "medicine" where it is supposed to be longer.

That is a good idea, thank you.
I don't believe the corn snake can actually drink or eat anything with its condition right now, so if I can I need to get it dealt with.

I've treated garters for mouthrot using diluted Hibiclens (you can get it at most CVS or WalMart). You're going to need to swab the mouth out a couple times a day until he's looked normal for a week or two. Hibiclens is milder than Betadine, so you may want to switch after a bit.

If it's truly mouth rot, you'll see an almost cottage-cheese like residue in the mouth. If you don't see this at an advanced state it's probably just a run-of-the-mill infection, which is easier to treat.

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This is what she looked like lastnight, I'm taking care of her for my dad, so I cleaned out her tub and today when I got home from school I used some Listerine to attempt to clean it.
Maybe you could possibly identify from these pictures? They aren't the greatest. I could get a couple from today.

WOW. I have never seen mouthrot that bad before. Can't do a 100% diagnosis without a vet, but that's mouthrot if I've ever seen it. Going to be honest, I don't think this snake's chances are good at all, but you can still try. Hope you'll be keeping it during/after treatment, because it takes quite a bit of ignoring for something to get this bad.

Is he about to shed, or are the eyes infected as well? I've known some really bad mouth infections to cause eye infections (nothing you can do about that without a vet though). Take care of the mouth and the eyes will clear up afterward if that's the case though.


I've dealt with some fairly bad mouth infections before, so I'll try and modify what I've done for this case:

First off; QUARANTINE like crazy. This stuff is highly contagious so keep him away from other reptiles and don't use any equipment with him that you use for your others.

You're going to need to remove that gunk... I wouldn't use listerine, bc I don't think this snake can control whether or not it swallows something well. Plus, you want it to be able to drink. Use just a wet Q-tip and just get as much of that gunk as you can out. If the medication isn't touching anything but that goop it won't really do much good anyway. When you get it so that the snake can close it's mouth a bit better, then use the diluted betadine/hibiclens on the gum tissue. Get all/most of the gunk cleaned out in one go, then try treating it three or so times a day. When it starts looking better, you can decrease frequency. You're gonna need to keep cleaning his mouth WAY after things look fine to keep something like this from bouncing back.

I would do the feeding sometimes and I last fed her a couple weeks ago and she looked fine. She took her mouse and everything. She must have had it, just incredibly minor at that point.
Because we can't get her to a veterinarian, I don't have much faith, but I'm determined to try, she deserves it.
I'm still in school, and I don't have a real job, so I can't afford to actually care for another snake, but I am STRONGLY advising him to give away his snakes (he has three corn snakes). It needs to happen, he can't, and is not motivated to, care for them anymore. Not like he was when he first got them.
I live in a small town, so tomorrow I will get what I need.
Is that what that is, though? Gunk? I thought it was her jaw incredibly swollen. I will do my best, but it makes me uncomfortable poking and prodding at her jaw like that, I don't want to hurt her or anything.
Thank you very much for this, I'm glad I got a good response. Regarding the eyes, I believe her eyes look odd because of the flash, I think they're alright, but I will look again.

You may want to go ahead and start swabbing the other snakes' mouths out if they were anywhere near this guy. There's a decent chance they've got it (you can pull the bottom jaw aside a bit with your thumb to check for swelling and discharge) but you probably have a chance to nip it in the bud at this point. Also make sure any equipment like tongs or water dishes is sterilized before it's used again or you're just going to see the infection bounce from snake to snake.

The jaw is probably very swollen under it, but the cottage cheese discharge looks like it's coating the whole mouth. The way it's gaping like that, it wouldn't surprise me if it's hardened up. You may need to moisten it with a Qtip before it'll start coming off. Starting at the back corner may work best. You're probably going to have to really upset her to get this cleaned up, but it'll be worth it if she makes it.

For really severe infections where the inside of the jaw has actually scabbed up, sealing the infection inside, I've had to use insulin needles to break through the scabbing; talk about nerve-wracking! But it worked. Hopefully pulling some of that stuff off will open things up and you won't have to do that.

Keep us updated!

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I soaked her in the tub and used a cloth to gently get rid of that nasty stuff. Totally puke-worthy to be honest. These are pictures from after that, the gunk was only on the roof of her mouth. (From what I can tell.) I tried rubbing at her bottom jaw but it appears to just be swollen tissue.
I'll have to go out and get betadine tomorrow.

That looks a lot better! Glad she has you to look out for her.

Yeah, I can see the teeth on the lower jaw, the tissue is just really pale. It'll be a good comparison so you know when the tissue starts to get healthy and pink again.

I thought so! Hopefully the gunk stays away until I can get the betadine tomorrow.
The betadine is safe to be applied inside the mouth?

Yeah, the betadine should be swabbed along the gums, but dilute it about half betadine half water first. I wouldn't put it on the roof of her mouth or really inside it just to minimize the amount she gets into her system.
Might seem like kind of a weak treatment, but if you can do it at least three times a day it makes up for it.

Alright, thank you very much! You have been really helpful.

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There is the gunk, that was all hardened up on the bottom jaw, it wasn't just swollen tissue, and those weren't teeth you were seeing! It was just from the way I had been rubbing at it, it created those cracks.
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These are just after getting the gunk off, and just prior to applying the betadine. The flash makes it look just awful. But she can close it a lot better! It must be sore.

Yikes! I bet she can breath better now too. The bleeding looks bad, but it helps flush out the infection. As long as you can get the swelling down enough for her to eat, she may make it.

I'm starting to think she has a much better chance, now. She should be a lot better in a couple weeks, and I will offer her a smaller meal than I would normally give her. If she looks good a week from now I may try then.

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It looks so much better this morning.
Is there any way I can prevent its mouth from sticking closed?

I onced tretated a kingsnake with a similar condition, after cleaning it like you did, I used betadine every day in the morning and eronfloxacine(baytril) IM every 48hs (7 shots). You need to get rid of the bacteria in the whole body, not just the mouth. The one I treated fully recovered. Good luck.

I have absolutely no idea what that is, I will certainly look into it.

If you don't have an extremely accurate graham scale or a vet to tell you dosage (or experience doing it yourself) you want to stay away from that stuff. Antibiotics can do more harm than good if you get dosing wrong. If you can contact a vet and order some based on their recommendations it'd be a good idea though.

He's looking a lot better!

Rafacacho is right that there's bacteria in the whole body. But if you continue to treat the oral symptoms and he can eat, drink, and otherwise be healthy, eventually the idea is that he'll knock the infection. If they can't eat or drink they can't fight it off. This is why vets are ideal for this type infection, but I get that that isn't always possible.

Ohh, alright.
If I could have, I certainly would have brought her to a vet. But you have helped A LOT, thank you!

This snake needs a vet. Most vets are understanding that I've dealt with and have known- the injections she needs to stop the infection in its place then push that infection out isn't a lot of money. $12 a shot and it's worth it. $120 to save your snakes life. I understand some people can't afford this, but in my humble opinion if you can't care for any animal when it's I'll ( especially due to neglect) you shouldn't own an animal. I know it's not yours and praise you for trying- any animal in your dads care should be removed immediately and put into some rescue where the snakes can get proper care.
I hope you have quarantined this girl from your other snakes. It's highly contagious as others have already mention.
It looks as if her eyes are infected, meaning the infections spreading - pretty quick if this wasn't this way a couple weeks ago. The rate of the progression and the gunk that built up is crazy. Poor girl.
Sorry for being so harsh, but this is the worst case I've seen of mouth rot. I pray she makes it without the required IM (intramuscular) antibiotics she needs to fight the infection.

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Originally Posted by Spartacus

This snake needs a vet. Most vets are understanding that I've dealt with and have known- the injections she needs to stop the infection in its place then push that infection out isn't a lot of money. $12 a shot and it's worth it. $120 to save your snakes life.

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Whoa! I won't argue that a vet visit and abx aren't called for here, but who is charging that much? My last vet visit for RI the total for the exam + meds (ten doses of two different shots, Baytril + Fortaz) was only $150.

There is nothing more that I can do for her, except rehome her. I don't know anyone willing to take an ill snake, and two other possibly ill snakes. I have told him to get rid of them many times before, but they aren't mine to give away.
I can't just whip money out of nowhere, so I'm sorry, but vet care is out of the question.

You're doing a fantastic job with her and have made great progress. Glad to see she is doing much better for you. :gj: :)



This is quite a roll reversal, typically it's the parents who get a kid a pet and parents wind up taking care of it. There are also many stories of parents who rehome their kid's animals when they go off to college because the parents don't want to take care of them; usually behind the kid's back. My thoughts on moving forward: Perhaps you should sit him down and be straight with him. Tell him to start caring for them again or you're going to take action with rehoming them yourself. It might be a time where you need to take the full lead in this situation and my the tough decisions.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Whoa! I won't argue that a vet visit and abx aren't called for here, but who is charging that much? My last vet visit for RI the total for the exam + meds (ten doses of two different shots, Baytril + Fortaz) was only $150.

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This is what I'm currently paying for in London ontario.

My snake needs 7-10 IM Ceftazidime shots
At $12.70 each. (Is where I got this $120 from)
Vet visit $79.10 - which I'm sure a vet would be understanding if you only had enough for the shots (you can pay one by one as you go). My vet wants to do my snakes shots every 3 days to see the progress he does it at no additional cost. It's worth it to save his life. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...f102faee9f.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...f5e5d689e0.jpg

If vet care is out of the question so should owning any animal in my opinion.

It irritates me when people get snakes "to be cool" yet don't know a thing about proper care, can't afford care, and just leave them there to rot, then refuse to give them to someone who can care for them. I can't imagine what the living conditions are like. This breaks my heart, these snakes are helpless and rely on their owners for ultimate care, proper care at that. If you have the money to fork out on a whim to purchase snakes- I don't get why there's no money for vet care. Either way I hope she makes it as I said, and I Pray the others get care as well.

Praise you for doing your best and trying.

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Originally Posted by Spartacus

If vet care is out of the question so should owning any animal in my opinion.

It irritates me when people get snakes "to be cool" yet don't know a thing about proper care, can't afford care, and just leave them there to rot, then refuse to give them to someone who can care for them. I can't imagine what the living conditions are like. This breaks my heart, these snakes are helpless and rely on their owners for ultimate care, proper care at that. If you have the money to fork out on a whim to purchase snakes- I don't get why there's no money for vet care. Either way I hope she makes it as I said, and I Pray the others get care as well.

Praise you for doing your best and trying.

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The snake is not hers. It belongs to her father. She is caring for it because she saw the problem and is trying to help. Would you rather her have left it in her father's care with no treatment at all? I understand the frustration at people who can't provide vet care for their animals, but again, this is not her animal.

Hense why I said praise you for doing your best.
My point is no one should own an animal without being able to provide proper care. Regardless it being hers or her fathers.
That mouth rot is horrible, my bad for feeling horrible for this helpless animal and speaking up that it needs vet care.

PS. I was speaking about her father not her. He refuses to give the snakes to someone who can care for them or at least try she said it herself. He cannot provide vet care, he cannot clean and provide a proper home for any of his animals- she stated this all herself in regards to her fathers neglect.
My opinion was based on pictures and info she provided. Not once did I reprimand HER for what happened to this poor corn snake. I said "praise you for doing your best" this snake wouldn't have a fighting chance in hell if it wasn't for her .

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Originally Posted by Pyrate81

You're doing a fantastic job with her and have made great progress. Glad to see she is doing much better for you. :gj: :)

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Why thank ya. ^-^

Anywho! I'm doing what I can, and I hope we can get through with the little I've got.
I'm having issues with her mouth sticking closed, and I'm not sure what to do about that, does anybody have any suggestions for that?

I understand that, but her father is reading this (I'm assuming) and nowhere did you specify that you were speaking to her father. In fact, you used the word you in your posts, which implies that you are speaking to the OP. While your intention may have been to speak in regards to her father, using the word you and not being clear can easily make a post feel like it was meant to beat her over the head. Whether the OP feels that way or not, I don't know. I'm just stating my opinion as to how I read it and how I would have perceived the posts were I in her shoes.

I do my best to not take offense to things people say, whether I'm meant to take offense to it or not.

If you need to pry her mouth open so you can treat it, you can use a small spatula or a teaspoon. Make sure you clean them well before and after use though.

Thank you.

I believe she's still improving. To prevent her mouth from closing shut, I've been putting some all natural vitamin E cream just on the very edge of her mouth. I don't think it will harm her, but if anybody would like to tell me whether it actually would or not, this is it:
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...90223fbdeb.jpg

How about instead of spout about how much people shouldn't own snakes we try to educate them about proper care. We were all clueless oafs at one time who didn't have a clue :rolleyes:

True say.

I hope she's doing better!

I believe she is, I will be attempting a small meal in a couple days. (:

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Originally Posted by Spartacus

I hope she's doing better!

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Which vet in london on do you go to, Most around here, iv found look at BP's as if they are rock pythons, Iv always gone out 40mins or so.

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Originally Posted by CORBIN911

Which vet in london on do you go to, Most around here, iv found look at BP's as if they are rock pythons, Iv always gone out 40mins or so.

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Byron animal clinic in Byron

They have been absolutely amazing and Spartacus is I'd say 90% better already because their care. I go again tomorrow for another shot and to check his skin after his shed.

King animal clinic sees reptiles but I've never gone it seems to always be a problem with scheduling.

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Originally Posted by albinos_rule

How about instead of spout about how much people shouldn't own snakes we try to educate them about proper care. We were all clueless oafs at one time who didn't have a clue :rolleyes:

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I've seen people on this forum slam others for not knowing how to keep humidity, I've read people telling someone they are horrible owners for using glass tanks as they are for "fish" and shouldn't own animals.

Someone already gave her excellent advice how to care for the snake that needs treatment. I also did give my input on pricing IF she came across extra cash she would know the numbers, or an idea.

I was simply stating my opinion which I'm entitled to, it's a forum for that reason. She said all these things herself I simply re iterated it back into my opinion in which I was agreeing with her statements about improper care. I also was giving ideas about re homing, rescue, place ad on kijiji for this or what not.

I apologize to Fraido if she thought I was attacking her, I wasn't. My comment "praise you for helping" Etc, should of shown I was speaking in regards to this snakes owner.

I'm not apologizing for caring about this helpless corn, who only has Fraido to help which she's doing her best as I've also said, who's owner neglects all the snakes in his care. After recent visits to my vet with my snake, he told me how much he sees people neglect and only bring them in when half dead instead of making necessary changing and precautions to avoid certain infections etc. It irritates me to no limit when people neglect their animals.

I'm allowed to have my opinion. I wish I could pay for this snake to get help. But I highly doubt she lived in ontario/ canada at that.

Fraido was given all the necessary information already once again, there's no more anyone can help with unless she asks specifics like the mouth stuck shut.

Once again. Good job with her!

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Originally Posted by Fraido

I believe she's still improving. To prevent her mouth from closing shut, I've been putting some all natural vitamin E cream just on the very edge of her mouth. I don't think it will harm her, but if anybody would like to tell me whether it actually would or not, this is it:
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...90223fbdeb.jpg

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How is this working? If it's not working I would try Vit e capsules broken might work too the oil base would help with the sticking.

Funny, I do live in Ontario. Haha. I know there is an emergency vet 15 minutes from Peterborough, which I live close to. I saw something online that says they will deal with reptiles, but I don't know that for sure. If you know of a vet close to Peterborough by any chance, I am considering asking my boyfriend if he'd be willing to help me out. He doesn't get paid much though. If he can, I'm going to call the vet I mentioned and see about that.
Since I've been applying the vitamin E stuff, her mouth hasn't been sticking together, fortunately.
My dad hasn't read any of this, it would honestly make me feel a little bit bad if he did, because he wouldn't feel too good reading anything people (including myself) have said. He's not a bad person, he's just making a terrible choice to not look after the snakes the way they need to be looked after.
It frustrates me because I asked him if I could please put up an ad (as a rescue, of course, I'm not going to try and pawn off my "healthy" snakes to someone), and he said he wants to wait until they're a bit healthier because he wants to SELL them. Ugh! They're not going to get any better until they're TAKEN CARE OF.. PROPERLY! And he expects ME to be looking after them, I am expected to be applying the medication, which I had to get my aunt to give me money for, I don't see him doing anything. It's so incredibly frustrating. You can't make everything about money, some things are more important, and in this case it is the snakes' health. *sigh*

Ughh.. and it's even more frustrating that he gets angry at me because I'm giving him a hard time about wanting to actually sell the corn snakes. It's just two amels (male and female), and the ghost girl who's dealing with the mouthrot, and he's going on about how they're worth more than what he had paid for them because they're proven breeders (he bred the two amels a few years ago, successully). He can't even remember what he paid for them. But they're still just corn snakes! I love all snakes, but I know that not many people are going to pay much for corn snakes. Especially these guys considering the condition they're in. UGH.

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Originally Posted by Spartacus12

I've seen people on this forum slam others for not knowing how to keep humidity, I've read people telling someone they are horrible owners for using glass tanks as they are for "fish" and shouldn't own animals.

Someone already gave her excellent advice how to care for the snake that needs treatment. I also did give my input on pricing IF she came across extra cash she would know the numbers, or an idea.

I was simply stating my opinion which I'm entitled to, it's a forum for that reason. She said all these things herself I simply re iterated it back into my opinion in which I was agreeing with her statements about improper care. I also was giving ideas about re homing, rescue, place ad on kijiji for this or what not.

I apologize to Fraido if she thought I was attacking her, I wasn't. My comment "praise you for helping" Etc, should of shown I was speaking in regards to this snakes owner.

I'm not apologizing for caring about this helpless corn, who only has Fraido to help which she's doing her best as I've also said, who's owner neglects all the snakes in his care. After recent visits to my vet with my snake, he told me how much he sees people neglect and only bring them in when half dead instead of making necessary changing and precautions to avoid certain infections etc. It irritates me to no limit when people neglect their animals.

I'm allowed to have my opinion. I wish I could pay for this snake to get help. But I highly doubt she lived in ontario/ canada at that.

Fraido was given all the necessary information already once again, there's no more anyone can help with unless she asks specifics like the mouth stuck shut.

Once again. Good job with her!

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If you wanted to pay theres many ways of making donations.... Just a thought!