Sometimes I think....

Ball python breeding is nothing but a contest to see who can stack the most genes :(:tears:

From what I've read on this website……yes. but i know extremely little about breeding.

No. Not necessarily. To me, it's making the best combos of those genes. You could have a six gene snake that just isn't stunning to look at. But a nice two gene combo could be really amazing. For me it's just making the best looking animals.

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Originally Posted by Marrissa

No. Not necessarily. To me, it's making the best combos of those genes. You could have a six gene snake that just isn't stunning to look at. But a nice two gene combo could be really amazing. For me it's just making the best looking animals.

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X2 and also making what you really like.

But the "best looking animals" mean different things to different people, and even though most breeders say it isn't about the money I know better. No breeder wants a normal that they can only sell for MAYBE $50. They wanna hit the jackpot with a multi-gene snake that will sell for several thousand dollars.

normals have their place even for breeders, often a normal is their first ball python, and is also how some breeders who just getting off the ground get started. have 3 single or 2 gene males and and 10-15 normal females makes for a decent start if they are looking at it from a business aspect. Either way even normals vary in pattern from light to dark and even reduced. you could line breed for really nice looking normals if you wanted to. That being said there are breeders who are looking to combine a lot of genes and in doing that normals are not what they are hoping to see, but unless a super was in one of the parents its always a possibility. Its all in the eye of the beholder if you want to breed, I say breed the genes that make you happy for combos you hope to make.

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Originally Posted by albinos_rule

But the "best looking animals" mean different things to different people, and even though most breeders say it isn't about the money I know better. No breeder wants a normal that they can only sell for MAYBE $50. They wanna hit the jackpot with a multi-gene snake that will sell for several thousand dollars.

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Well of course. That multi gene snake could be the long odds they hit on and boost their program to the next level several years ahead of time. It's not all about the money. You stock your own shelves before you stock the shelves of other breeders. ;) With my first season I should be hitting on a 5k snake. Will I be selling that snake? Nope. You improve your own stock then sell extras. But yes no one wants to add more cheap normals and single genes to further saturate the market. And big breeders have invested a lot of time and money, they've gotta get something back so they have more money to put into the hobby.

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Originally Posted by albinos_rule

But the "best looking animals" mean different things to different people, and even though most breeders say it isn't about the money I know better

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Of course its about the money. You are talking about PROFESSIONAL breeders who do this for a JOB. Is your job about the money? Unless you are extremely lucky in your situation in life it probably is. I dont see any sane reason why it should be any different. Is my job only about the money? Absolutely not. If I didnt need the money would I still do what I do 40-60 hours a week? Absolutely not.


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Originally Posted by CryHavoc17

Of course its about the money. You are talking about PROFESSIONAL breeders who do this for a JOB.

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Most of them aren't spending a bunch of time on forums, unless it's advertising or blogging to promote their business.

We hobbyists who are on the forums every day helping people figure out where to stick the t-stat probe for the UTH they just bought aren't in it for the money, but because we don't want to see a burned snake.

As for producing 3-4 gene animals, there are many I like but can't afford to purchase... but I can afford to purchase the "ingredients". So, I'll make my own, and enjoy the journey along the way.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

We hobbyists who are on the forums every day helping people figure out where to stick the t-stat probe for the UTH they just bought aren't in it for the money, but because we don't want to see a burned snake.

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QFT! Although, if someone comes up with a way to profit from this, I would be right up near the front of the line. :D

I think it can be, but I think that to be a "good" breeder (not necessarily profitable or professional), you need to breed animals that improve on the previous generation in looks... For me, 2-3 gene animals seem to look the best, or really good examples of 1 gene animals. I have only 2 BPs at the moment, a 1 gene and a 2 gene female. Of the two, the single gene female is a better example of her morph, so it makes sense to me that she should produce better looking babies than the 2 gene animal, although I will get more combos with the 2-gene female.

I think you need to start with solid examples of the morphs (1,2, or 3 gene, etc.) then build your collection from there... Keep back the best examples (i.e. keep a 1 gene awesome pastel over a 2 gene mediocre bumblebee), then breed quality to quality striving for some aesthetic goal... i.e. reduced pattern, more contrast, etc. If you become known for quality, it makes sense that more owners will come to you for breeding stock / pets.

Also not sure if some off this breeding is good for the animals I still don't know how I feel about scale less snakes seems like breeding to get a human with down syndrome to me as scale less is a genetic defect

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Originally Posted by bcr229

As for producing 3-4 gene animals, there are many I like but can't afford to purchase... but I can afford to purchase the "ingredients". So, I'll make my own, and enjoy the journey along the way.

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Same with me. Although I haven't started breeding yet, it'll be mostly a hobby for me. I think of ball python breeding more as art than anything. Making beautiful snakes from other beautiful snakes. It's like drawing or painting a beautiful picture. Even if I do hit a jackpot combo, I'd probably end up keeping it due to its beauty.


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Originally Posted by lurch9

Also not sure if some off this breeding is good for the animals I still don't know how I feel about scale less snakes seems like breeding to get a human with down syndrome to me as scale less is a genetic defect

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:rolleyes: Yes, DS is a genetic abnormality. Yes, scaleless ball pythons are a genetic abnormality. However, DS is associated with physical and intellectual disability. Scaleless ball pythons, despite their obvious physical differences, do not (in my understanding) behave differently than any other ball python morph. They eat well, shed well, poop well, and move well. To put it simply, they're thriving.

We, as responsible hobbyists and breeders, do not knowingly breed for snakes with known physical or intellectual disabilities that impact their quality of life.

Yes I know that they thrive and are fine and down syndrome probably extreme comparison just showing an example. I think scale less is going to look amazing in other morphs just feels so unnatural to have a snake or reptile without scales

I think sometimes, too, people lose sight of the pet market. Doesn't matter how many of the supers are being bred, the single, double, and even normals are always going to have some kind of market in people keeping the snakes for pets, and the benefits of breeding those fancy morphs is that people getting into reptiles or looking for just a pet have somewhere to go to look for decent quality 'low end' morphs that are really nice and responsibly bred.

Even if they are a byproduct.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

We, as responsible hobbyists and breeders, do not knowingly breed for snakes with known physical or intellectual disabilities that impact their quality of life.

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Playing devil's advocate here, but isn't breeding anything with the Spider gene is knowingly breeding a defect that might impact their quality of life?

Personally, I have a very sweet Bee boy who thankfully isn't too wobbly and it doesn't effect him too much but it's honestly a gamble since it effects each snake differently. Just a thought...



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