Starting Fresh

Hey all,

Four years back in College I kept a two ball's which I sadly had to re home upon graduation since I was unable to house them at the place I was renting post grad. I had both of them in their own 20 long's and kept them for three years and they were great! Since I've got a little more time and space I've decided to get back into the hobby, but this round I've decided to go tubbed to offer a better enclosure for the little guys and gals. Just spent tonight setting up a temporary surface, as I'm planning to go rack later, with two strips of 3" Flexwatt on a sheet of melamine and three 15 (17" x 11.5" x 6.5") quart tubs. As a show's coming up in a week I just am preparing to pick up 2-3 juvies and go from there. The 15 quarts, from what I read, were large enough for juvies and should house them for a bit. I guess my first question is when should I bump them to a 30/50 quart? I expect this should suffice for 3-6 months.

Currently the tubs are setup with the rear receiving belly heat via two 3" FW strips attached to a Big Apple Supply thermostat set to 85. I was planning on placing a hide on the hot end and a water dish in the cool. Substrates planned will be newspaper or paper towels for simple weekly cleaning/replacement. I'm currently dialing in the heat params from the thermostat and measuring heat in each enclosure via ExoTerra digital probe thermometers. One setup has a hygrometer/thermometer digital (sort of probe?) that I'm using to monitor average humidity levels of the enclosure to make sure I don't need to add more holes. I've mounted the temp probe to the interior surface of the tub and with the thermostat set to 85, the tubs surface temps are reaching 98.6 on average. I understand this is high for Regius, so I'm fiddling with the thermostat to see if I have a faulty unit or if the probe is actually incorrect. Regarding the Flexwatt, should I space the tubs from the surface of the Flexwatt? I currently have them sitting directly on the Flexwatt and am concerned with the direct heat being a bit too much for not only the tub but the individual animal. Also, I've since added some substrate (newspaper) and the temps have jumped to the 98.6 due to it insulating the probe. Should I be concerned with the 98 degree temp? If I remove the newspaper the temps are at 90 give or take a degree.

Any input on this would be greatly handy. Thanks for being such a great forum. I had a lot of great reading to get up to this point.

The probe should be between the heat tape and the tub. I use a little bit of electrical tape to secure it. You may need to adjust the thermostat to get the right hot spot temp (as the tub will be cooler than the heat tape).

Sitting directly on the heat tape isn't too big of a deal as long as your temps are correct. You may find it puts wear on the heat tape over time if the tub is constantly sliding over it. Many do this without problems but just to be sure, I have a strips of a 1/8" spacer before and behind my heat tape. This prevents rubbing and keeps the tub just off of the heat tape. You may need your thermostat a degree or so higher this way, but I think it works better for my setup.

Again, have the thermostat probe on the heat tape and not in the tub. If your BP moved it, the temps could get really hot. I try to have a thermometer probe under the substrate (in the tub, on top of where the hot spot is).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Creepy Alien

The probe should be between the heat tape and the tub. I use a little bit of electrical tape to secure it. You may need to adjust the thermostat to get the right hot spot temp (as the tub will be cooler than the heat tape).

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The probe for the thermostat is on the heat tape. The probe that measures belly heat in the tub is on the inside of the tub to keep it accurate on the inside face of the tub.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Creepy Alien

Sitting directly on the heat tape isn't too big of a deal as long as your temps are correct. You may find it puts wear on the heat tape over time if the tub is constantly sliding over it. Many do this without problems but just to be sure, I have a strips of a 1/8" spacer before and behind my heat tape. This prevents rubbing and keeps the tub just off of the heat tape. You may need your thermostat a degree or so higher this way, but I think it works better for my setup.

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Again, have the thermostat probe on the heat tape and not in the tub. If your BP moved it, the temps could get really hot. I try to have a thermometer probe under the substrate (in the tub, on top of where the hot spot is.) I understand about the friction causing wear, but I'm not concerned right now as it's a pseudo rack at this point.

Sorry, I misunderstood about where your thermostat probe was. Having a temp gun can be really helpful as well. On the heat tape, I find the hottest spot and place the thermostat probe there. Inside the enclosure, you can quickly double check your temps throughout.

I'm not sure why your interior temps are running so much higher. Maybe try and put your thermometer probe next to your thermostat probe and see what it reads?

No problem.

I'd have to agree on verifying the temps on the tape. I'm an engineer, so I have an understanding of thermal gradients as well as insulated/ non-insulated heat. The temps via the tape to the tub should be lower than the tubs surface temps as it's a thicker material that will hold heat longer. The tape is attached to melamine with aluminum tape so the surface acts as a large heat sink when the thermostat turns the power off once the surface temps of the tape hit the designated temps. I can understand the 90 degree point (non-insulated) and the 98.6 insulated (as the tub probe is between the plastic tub and the substrate.) I'll need to get a IR thermometer to verify the temps on the substrate.

I'll post up any updates. I hope I can get this figured out this week as I plan to have a yellow belly (possible cross) and a lesser in them by Saturday.

Saturday is getting ever so closer! I went out and picked up an IR thermometer and am comparing it to my current probes. Right now either the IR has a +/- 3 degrees F or my probes do. Either way, I'm noticing an issue with the thermostat. I have it now set, for the past few hours at 85 and I'm reading surface temps of 104. This is definitely an issue. That said I'm going to contact Big Apple about this so we can have a solution ASAP.

Big Apple Supply and I are going through a back and fourth on the thermostat. It seems that no units have 'ever' had this issue. The remedy at this point is to kick the setting down to a lower level (~82) to get a 90 degree temp... Welp, that's what I get for getting a 'simple' thermostat. Once I get the rack rolling a Herpstat II will be ordered.

Now that I'm monitoring the tapes surface temp with yet another probe, I feel confident I can use this setup. I don't know if I'd say it's the best choice, but it gets the job done for two Steralites. I plan to keep this setup for a quarantine once the rack is complete.

Now into the exciting news, I picked up a pair! Thanks to Anthony at Conley Herps I was able to get a beautiful striped Lesser female(just a lesser that happened to have a stripe that was non genetic.) He had been of great help when I contacted him about his inventory prior to the show. She is about to be 3 months and was eating well in his care. She actually defecated prior to me getting her home, so I hope she digested more so then purged due to stress. Yes, she defecated for those about to ask. I saw urates on the bag once I got to my girlfriends, pulled her out and as I was cleaning the bag she passed the rest of her meal. Now she's exploring her new setup, though she only puts her head into the hide. Seems I have an ostritch of a ball. Onto the male. After poking around all of the other stalls at the show, I kept my eyes out mainly for exceptional Yellow Bellies. After talking to one breeder, he walked to the other end of the setup and pointed at a Yellow Belly x Enchi male that was from another breeder. The male at 6 months was hefty and had great coloration. His eyes are almost pewter, and his pattern is great along with his colors. He seems a little timid, but I plan on working with him to get him more less skittish. After talking to David at his booth (Ball and Chain Reptiles) he offered to reduce the price to something I couldn't say no to. Out of the pair the male took about 10 minutes to explore his Steralite and decided the hide was where he wanted to be. I can see him poke his head out every so often, but he's content in the PVC cap that I cute a notch in to use as a hide.

I'm going to do my best and keep out of the enclosures to allow the balls to settle in. Planning to attempt the first feeding (by me) in a week, so either next Saturday or Sunday, with frozen/thawed rat pups.

Anyone know of any rack builders/retailers that sell racks with that fall between these dimensions: 28" x 20" X 28" ?

That's great, congratulations :) . My wife and I just got back into BP's this year after a long hiatus. We kept a few ball pythons (all normals) and several other snakes about 16 or 17 years ago.

It started with an albino last March or April and somehow got up to 22 BP's o_O . Three of them belong to our kids though, so I think that's better?

Good luck with everything :) .

Thanks! Once they settle in I'll go through and get photo's of each of them. The YB Enchi has me a little confused. From the tail size, minus the guy popped him in front of me, it looks like it's a female. I'm not sure its 100% a YB either. At the end of the day I'm still happy with what I found. The only part I was torn on was going with a Bee over the YB, but in the long run I'm happy with what I got.

Well the male had some bowel movements today that looked projectile. The urates were a little brownish yellow (near the feces) but the rest of the urates were white. The feces was solid and looked healthy. I pulled him out and sat him on my lap while I pulled out the bedding and wiped the steralite down with a lysol wipe. As I was letting it dry I let the male run through my fingers and felt a few 'rough' belly scales in random places. I lifted him up and checked him out and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. The scales that were rough were the belly scales meet the sides. Is this normal? I never felt anything like this on the balls I had years ago besides maybe once or twice preshed.

Now that he had defecated on Monday he had been up all night from what I noticed (he was moving around his cage a few hours before I went to bed once the room lights went off), was moving around when I got a call from work at 3AM, and then he was still moving around at 6 this morning. Figured what the hell, I'll grab some frozen rats on my way home to see if they'd eat. Mind you I had not seen the female since I put her in on Saturday afternoon. I checked with a red LED light through the hide hole to make she she didn't get out, but she has since stayed there. I get small rats like the breeders said they were eating and start to defrost one in some warm water once I get home. As the rat's in it's defrost container I move the male over to another Steralite and lock him up. I set the container next to some of the holes and walk away for about 15 mins. After 15 mins, I pull out the bag, open it, dry off the rat and check it's temps with an IR thermometer. The rat's at 98 degrees so I let it cool down a bit and pop the top of the Steralite and wave the rat around by it's scruff. Well what do ya know, he S's up and what happens next? *BAM* I drop the rat... Well F now he's all balled up and scared by the meal that 'attacked' him. I give him a bit to unball and once he does I start the process over again. Wave wave wave, woops slip and it falls from the tongs. I'm thinking "Dammit he got interested again and I messed up again..." Nope, he grabs it as soon as it touches him.

Here are some pics of him:

With his prey (after coiling) -
http://i.imgur.com/czsM1ED.jpg

After he had swallowed and had placed him back in his Steralite -
http://i.imgur.com/5KUWac8.jpg

So now onto the female. I wanted to move her over to the Steralite the male ate in so she could get all worked up with the scent. She had been eating live prior, so this was going to be tricky. I pop open her Steralite, lift her hide and well... Damn... She's deep in shed. Her body is in that ghost phase and her eye caps were white. I ended up placing her hide slowly back on her and popping the non defrosted rat in the freezer for a later attempt. I'll definitely have to get an adult mouse for her. The small rat I got from the petstore was a bit too big for the male, but he worked it in. She will definitely have problems with it being a bit wider then her widest part.

Nice looking snake :) . It's great when they eat their meal up like that. I had several problem feeders that are doing great now. I still get excited though when they eat :) . Too bad you have to wait for the other one, but I'm sure you won't have any problems.

About your other post with the scales... if you don't see anything, I'd just keep note of it and check once in awhile and after his next shed. I've had them rough up a few scales during the shedding process and have them fine before or after the next shed. Maybe others could give better thoughts than that.

Congrats on your pickups!

I have a big apple thermostat too... and I don't use it anymore for the reasons you noted. The temp gauge on the thermostat is inaccurate, you have to play with it to get it to the real temp you want.

The other point I'd make, is that in the past I've had a UTH hooked up to an on/off thermostat and it read very high sometimes. What was happening, as best I could tell, was that the UTH kept heating up even after the thermostat turned the power off, resulting in a temp that was about 8 degrees higher than it was supposed to be. Needless to say, I don't use that UTH any more either.

If you want a more reliable on/off thermostat, try a hydrofarm. I haven't had any issues with mine and the temp reading on it seems more accurate than the big apple. It's not as accurate as a herpstat, but it gets the job done. If you want industrial grade, get a ranco that has been wired for use with a heating device. I have one hooked up to my space heater that heats my reptile room and it works great.

Thanks guys!

Art, I had another mishap with mine this morning which peeved me to a whole new level. I got up at 6 to get ready for work and did my routine red light look of the closed containers to see if either of them are active/have feces (which I doubted but I like to check) and a general check of the temp probes and hygrometers. What did I notice? The tub belly temp probes on the hot sides were reading 101 and 103. The data logging on the probes told me they reached 106 on one... I'm not sure how long this went on, but that's the peak... I was utterly pissed at Big Apple for selling such a crap product and very concerned for my snakes. I quickly pulled the tubs off the heat tape to allow them to cool and didn't want to disturb the snakes more since one just ate and the other is getting deep into shed. I dragged the hides gently to not remove the snakes and with my IR temp gun read the surface temp of where they were sitting and it was at 98. This worried me a bit less, but I knew I had to do something. I ended up going to work late as I had to wait for stores to open and drove around till I found a backup thermostat cutoff, oddly enough I found one for a heater at my local Tractor Supply. I flew home, hooked this up to the thermostat and spent a few hours dialing it in. Now the thermostat is regulated by a more accurate thermocouple to apply/cut power. Since I could not get a thermostat today to fit the bill I figure this will have to work. I got to work, did more research on my down time, and got home to check everything. Right now they are doing fine on temps. I removed the hides for a few minutes just to give a quick once over and didn't notice anything odd. The male seemed upset that I removed his hide while he was digesting (S'd up but no striking) and the female went from a loose coil to a tight ball. I gave them both a quick mist and replaced the hides, and closed them up.

I sent another email to BAS, but I have yet to receive a reply. I would strongly recommend to do any purchases through other sites than BAS.

My goal at this point is to get a rack to hold 4-6 adult tubs (40 quart)/8-12 sub adult (15 quart) and run them with a Herpstat or a VE with backup probes for the "just in case" scenario that I ran into this morning. Luckily the temps I were reading were insulated with a few layers of news paper between the probe. I posted earlier some dimensions of the rack I'm looking for, anyone have an idea where I could find one? It could hold say 4 adult tubs and I'd be fine with that as I can expand later.

Well some good news!

Let me start out with this:
http://i.imgur.com/5CcqVpy.jpg

She had a great shed! I'll be going out to get her a mouse later this afternoon.

On top of that I ordered two Hydrofarm Thermostats. I figured I'd get two incase one fails. For the price I figured I'd try them till the rack is done.

More good news and some frustrating news.

Hydrofarms showed up today! Ordered them yesterday and they got here a day later. Thanks Amazon!

I'm off of work today getting over a head cold and went to get some mice. Got to the store, figured I'd grab two just in case one wasn't enough. Popped the Lesser in the feeding tub and went to go defrost the mouse. When I went to offer it to her, she nailed it!

http://i.imgur.com/GrVfz9Q.jpg

Now the the meh news. Once she uncoiled, she sniffed it and proceeded to ignore it. I left it with her for 10 mins, no interest. I get the forceps back out and wiggle the mouse, she nails it again! But the same after response after she uncoils. Now she's upset and trying to escape as I open the top. I decide I'll just put her back in her home. As I was getting ready to get up and get rid of the mouse, I see the YB with his head out out his hide with the look of "Are you done with that?" I pull him out, pop him in the feeding tub, and he nails it and proceeds with having a snack.

http://i.imgur.com/5aH3JVB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mtGlE3a.jpg

I don't want to feed him too often, but I figured it was an adult mouse and he had a small rat 3 days prior. I've never heard ball pythons being the gorging type, but I could be wrong.

How long should I be expecting to wait for defecation. Before in my previous balls I didn't worry about it because it happened so regularly.

The lesser has still yet to eat, but I plan on retrying on Thursday or Friday. Since the last time I posted she finally had a name given to her, Sumi!

Not only was the lesser given a name, so was the YB Enchi. He's Kei. Kei's starting his first shed since I've had him. He'd started to darken up late last week once I gave him a soak in a spare Steralite which he seemed to enjoy. Today when I pulled him out to weigh him I noticed his eye caps are bluing. Well I'll be experimenting with him today as it was his scheduled feeding day. Figured I'd see if my guy would be a hungry one during his shed. I'll post more on that later.

As for weights:

Sumi: 146 (down from 172)
Kei: 386 (don't know original weight since I didn't have a weight from the breeder)

As you can guess my scale came in so now I can run weekly weights on these guys for my spreadsheets. I ended up getting a MyWeigh 7001 DX scale from Amazon. It's a great little scale and even has a tub that comes with it that's handy keeping the little ones on there.

I find it kind of fun logging weights, etc.. It was frustrating for awhile when I'd log a couple of my snakes. I have an Albino that didn't eat for several months. I'd see his weight go down bit by bit each time I weighed him (the same thing for a live feeder Spider that I wanted to change over to F/T). I finally got them eating and their weights have steadily went up (and they are both bigger than when they started). I love seeing that :) .

I use pen and paper, but intended to move everything to a spreadsheet. I actually found a cool little app for my Android phone called Reptile Logger DB by Joshua Powell. It's a really great little program for just a couple of dollars. I'm not sure if there's an iOS version or not, but the author is constantly adding things and responds quickly to suggestions or questions. It works perfectly for my needs anyway, and has plenty that I haven't used yet.

I wouldn't worry too much about Sumi yet. The original weight you were given for her could have been right after she ate. I have a little Calico that would strike and not eat that I ended up assist feeding a couple of times. I wouldn't worry about that yet. Just keep on eye on her by looks and her weight and just try again the next time.

Back when I kept snakes before, I learned that you ALWAYS had to move a snake into a feeding container. When I started keeping them again this year, I soon lost that idea. I've been having great luck and no problems feeding them right in their enclosures. You might try that if she gets nervous.

Thanks for the response.

Sumi's weight was there the day of the show. He weighed her in front of me so that's the baseline I had.

I'm considering feeding her in her enclosure later this week. I tried leaving the F/T prey item from last time with her over night, but no avail, she just left it. She's very active and comes out of her hide when I sit down and open Kei's hide or one of the other enclosures when I'm prepping it for feeding or taking them out. Ever since I've been exploded on twice I handle both of them over a spare tub in case I notice their vent open. Once I have her out she explores and rarely sits still. In her tub shes active a lot. I'm hoping this means shes searching for a meal.

Well back onto Kei. I thawed a small rat and waved it in front of him for less then a second and WHAM he nailed it. Constricted it for a minute, then swallowed his dinner and went on exploring till I popped him back in his tub. He's been a great feeder. My concern is that I have not seen any feces since his first rat or the adult mouse last week... He's urinated and left a sizeable urate, but no feces... I hope he doesn't get backed up. Once he sheds I plan on soaking him every other day so he can let it out.

I have some that go a week or two, and some that go 3, 4, or 5 weeks. The longer ones are usually very, very dense :-) .

He likely wouldn't be such an enthusiastic eater if he was backed up. I'm sure he'll be fine :) . Most of mine go right when they shed, but a couple wait until I clean their cage and go that night :) .

Great news! Went to get an adult mouse on the way home from work for Sumi on Friday. Got home and got a call from a family member asking if they wanted to go out to dinner, so I decided to let the mouse defrost next to her tub. Got home, got some warm water going and warmed up the room temperature prey item. She had been out and about so I figured she was attempting to hunt. As soon as I popped the tub top off she shot half her body out of the tub to start checking out what was going on. With another set of tongs, I pushed her back into the tub as I was not sure of her intent of exploring. I presented the warm prey item and she took a bit to sniff it and she struck it and took it. A few minutes later she downed it. So yeah, she's eating. Woo!

So yesterday was the weekly tub cleaning day, outside of spot cleaning/newspaper replacement if they urinated. I swap Kei's paper towels out and notice he's cleared up, but there is no shed in the tub. Oh well I'll just mist the enclosure and bring up the humidity from 60 to 80 for a day and just see how it goes... 15 minutes later I smell something and pop the top off of his tub. What do ya know, they do poop when you clean their cage! What a brat this guy is :) What else did I notice? In the corner was a shed that looked like a rolled off tube sock. He's back to being all bright and new again. Going to handle him more tonight and get him back on his routine so he's less head shy.

Weights right now from 9/30 (my end of the month weigh in) were Sumi @ 146g and Kei @ 386g (weighed pre feeding that day.) I weighed them yesterday, giving a buffer for my beginning of the month weigh ins, and the weights are as follows: Sumi @ 172g (back to original weight, but still holding a meal) and Kei @ 401g (post poop, shed, and only holding 2 previous meals.)

Great news about Sumi (and Haha about Kei :-P ).

Perfect news about their weights! It's great to record that stuff when they/you are getting stuff done right :-) .

I'm glad to hear! Thanks for the update.

Thanks! Just trying to find a female YB enchi in the Maryland area to get ready to breed later with Kei. A few days prior when he was in blue, I opened his tub to cover him with a moist paper towel and he hissed for the first time. It was a fairly intimidating noise and honestly he has a very aggressive fixed facial expression. Either way, he's a great fat little guy. Gonna feed him tomorrow to keep him fat and happy. I need to find another hide for him. He's out grown (in girth and length) two hides since I've had him. He must be frustrated with the current hide as he pushed it to the cold side and just sits over the hot side.

Since I remembered I had plans after work tonight I decided to go and get Kei's meal on the way home yesterday. Another small rat as a prey item went down like a charm. This time it was the strongest strike that he's ever had for a meal. That said, Sumi came out and started exploring as I had to feeding tub on top of hers. She had been pacing the tub since then till this morning. Looks like someone might be eager for another meal. Should I jump the gun and give her a meal before Friday? I'm not sure if I should bump her up to a small rat since it's bigger than her thickest part by a bit. I'd be willing to try, but I don't want her to get hurt from swallowing something that might be too big.

I'd stick to the "thickest part of her" rule and wouldn't feed bigger. She would probably be fine, but could injure herself if it's too big. It's up to you when you feed them. I try to keep to a schedule, but don't always stick to it.

I like keeping to a schedule, but if she's active cause she's hungry I don't want to see her searching for days. I might feed her twice a week this week as she's missed 2 meals so far.

For younger BPs, some use a 5 day schedule. I used to, but switched to a 7 day. I'm not sure I'd feed meals closer together than that (don't know if they would have time to properly digest the previous meal).

I was hesitant about giving Kei that mouse Sumi didn't eat, but he didn't even think about it when I offered it. Since it was less than half his normal meal size I didn't see too much of an issue.

The feeding schedule for Sumi got changed due to scheduling yesterday. Didn't have a chance to run out and get her meal, let alone get home till a reasonable hour. Until I get some clutches going I don't plan on stock piling on F/T prey items since they do have a shelf life. I ended up going out this morning to get something for Sumi, but my initial stop didn't have the right size. Long story short, I ended up having to stop by PetSmart and saw they carried frozen ranges of rats. I had heard they only carried mixed sizes of mice, never rats. Since they didn't have individual small rats I ended up getting the box of two. I get home, started to defrost them and noticed both of the little buggers sitting out as I was pulling the box out the bag and caved. Defrosted them both. I get Kei out to handle him a bit. I've noticed he's started to puff and his more. Not sure why. Once he's out of his tub, he's 100% chill. I pop him back after about a half hour of him getting overly comfortable, and check on Sumi. Not sure why, but she's always on the prowl a couple days after eating. She shot out of her tub as soon as the top was off. She smelt my hands a bit, to which I was hoping didn't smell like her dinner I pulled out a bit ago, and moved about while I was watching a movie. I check the rats, they are thawed and get some warm water out to make sure they are 100% ice free and to get them up to temp. I pull Kei out to place in the feeding tub, to which he got all hissy about and decided to ball up. As soon as the top came off again with the prey item hanging from forceps, his tongue flew out of the gap of his "ball" and his head proceeded out. Two more flicks, then he snagged his dinner. I'm really stoked on how well he eats. The smaller of the two rats I saved for Sumi. I did the same as last time and fed her in her tub. She was freaked a bit, but if I slowly followed her with the prey item she turned around and sniffed it. I nudged her side with it and then she decided to make the move. Both of them happily downed their meals. I'm glad I got her from not eating, to eating mice, and with no scenting or force feeding got her to take a small rat. Now I can go get small rats for both of them and just feel the packages for a "smaller" small and a "medium/larger" small. Soon Kei's going to have to be on mediums.

I decided to bump Sumi up and attempt a small rat cause I noticed her weight had declined again. Not like before where she went from 172g to 166g. Yeah only a loss of 6g's, but I see a loss as a loss. Plus, Kei's weight at the beginning of the month (10/1) was 406g and he weighed in today at 460g pre meal.

Now I'm just on the hunt for a YB Enchi female to pair off Kei with. Preferably if I can find one in the area. If anyone see's/knows anyone looking to sell a 3-6 month old YB Enchi female in the DMV area either let me know or point them my way!

First let me start off with this:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tihsho

I decided to bump Sumi up and attempt a small rat cause I noticed her weight had declined again. Not like before where she went from 172g to 146g. Yeah only a loss of 6g's, but I see a loss as a loss. Plus, Kei's weight at the beginning of the month (10/1) was 406g and he weighed in today at 460g pre meal.

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I saw I had a typo on my last post and figured I needed to correct it for documents sake. Sumi's weight went down to 166 grams that week, that was the confusion.

So it's another feeding day. What does that mean? Weigh in time while prey items thaw! Came home to found a steamer Sumi had got me. I've noticed their feces is getting pretty rank. Not sure why it was not so bad their first few poops, but Kei's yesterday was horrid in smell though it was solid (even had a tail on his poop...) Might have been that I gave them soaks a day before they pooped in warm water. Kei hated the tub, so I decided to try the sink. He freaked for a bit, but he seemed to figure out what was going on and he soaked and moved around in the water adjusting his head on the lip of the sink.

http://i.imgur.com/YEFYgd5.jpg

After getting him out it was the day to clean the bathroom anyways.

So back to the topic at hand. Weigh ins! Kei is now up to 478g (gain of 18 since last sat) and Sumi is up to 191g (gain of 25 since last week!) So it seems like it was the right move to bump her up to the small rat. I felt around in bags again at the store and got a smaller small for her and a larger small for Kei. I'm going to bump Kei up next week to mediums. Does this seem about right for his weight? Plus, he's gained some length and girth so I figure he's due for a meal upgrade. Also, I've noticed per the weight chart I'm keeping up that his weight gain has been going down. I'll keep everyone posted on how feeding goes.