to line breed*quality* or shoot for combos?

i'm fairly new and have been doing a lot of research and notice that a lot of people tend to focus more so on combos and not the quality of animals produced. And a question i have been asking myself is it beneficial in the current market to just focus on breeding quality and not worry about combos until you have what you want or to shoot for the best multi-gene animals/hot morph you can produce?

There are breeders that have had a lot of success doing both, and ultimately the decision is up to you. The majority of breeders aren't just throwing together animals willy-nilly to create the next 20 gene baby - they're putting thought into the process and using genes that compliment each other well. With 99.9% confidence, you won't find a single person who tells you that quality isn't important when going for combos. Without stellar examples of morphs to begin with, you aren't likely to end up with great looking combos.

i know its more than likely a matter of preference but is it beneficial to try and refine your own line of a morph or just buy what you perceive as quality from someone else and go from there? i know i want to breed(waaay down the road from now) for a quality stock of a couple of particular morphs. sorry if confusing, i'm having a hard time finding words for my question. . . i'm mainly trying to get a general consensus on how others feel and go about it so i can have a basis for my plans

I think the problem with that question is the definition of quality and of line-breeding. Probably all breeders apply line breeding to their gene stacking programs but not at all in any direction specific to traits other then the industry wide desired traits: brightness and reduced pattern. It's been proven that you can line breed some serious things into ball pythons so if it was your goal to sell normal ball pythons to breeders that all have striping down their backs or extremely dark patterns with nice contrast then you should be able to successfully breed for that. I plan on incorporating several unique line bred traits into all of my snakes that will make them unique to me. The majority of my snakes so far have things that I want to pass on and breed for. Unfortunately I get conflicted on which traits I want to focus on though. I like discussing this sort of stuff so feel free to PM me and I can ramble on for days :)

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Originally Posted by thegamejr

i know its more than likely a matter of preference but is it beneficial to try and refine your own line of a morph or just buy what you perceive as quality from someone else and go from there? i know i want to breed(waaay down the road from now) for a quality stock of a couple of particular morphs. sorry if confusing, i'm having a hard time finding words for my question. . . i'm mainly trying to get a general consensus on how others feel and go about it so i can have a basis for my plans

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I absolutely understand what you're asking. The reality is that unless you really hit something out of the park (Brian Gundy's Gold Blush Mojave line for example), what you end up with is simply a nice quality single gene animal that you will likely have a tough time marketing as much more than that. Are there people who are willing to pay more for such quality examples of a morph? Absolutely. Will it take much more than simply having these nice animals available for sale in order to differentiate yourself from the sea of other breeders with nice single gene animals? 1000 times, yes.

Basically,those were the exact answers i was looking for. Thank you both. It pretty much comes down to breed something that you like that will also appeal to everyone else while refining what you have possibly into something

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Luckily i narrowed down what i want to work with to 3 morphs

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What 3 are those? I know I am conflicted on a few things dealing with Pastels. I like the jungle pattern but I also have one with a standard pattern but lots of blushing, reduced pattern and higher yellow. I assume that I could hold back and use selective breeding to enhance the jungle pattern into my pastels or the normal looking reduced pattern with more blushing. I think that the reduced Pastels with lots of blushing would probably mix into other genes better then the jungle patterned ones.

Mojave, enchi, and clown. . want to shoot for a nice enchi mojave clowns ha. . i just find everything mojave amazing

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Awesome genes! With the Clowns do you like the reduced Blade look or the more busy tear drop look?

I love the reduced patterns to where its mainly the head coloring with a stripe and a couple circles on the sides. I'm definitely going to have to look at parents when i buy a het. . . at the expo up here next month i'm going to be looking for either a mojave or enchi het clown. hopefully i find something

Quality sells first everytime. The reason these top breeders produce such nice animals is because they invested in the very best top shelf animals. This is where I feel almost every person makes biggest mistake, they will buy 2 lesser quality animals instead of spending the money on the very best. So your already behind when you start breeding. That big breeder that bought the very best, he has bred those animals together and held back the very best.

Now when you have these top shelf babies you have produced and its time to sell you have 2 options.
#1 You put a higher price tag on them because of the quality and hope to make a few extra bucks
#2 you price them along with the general market price.

Personally I go with option 2. Quality sells everytime. You have 6 pastels at a show at 6 different tables all priced the same, 9/10 times the nicest will be sold first. Dont fight your competition with price dumping, fight them with quality. If more people did that we wouldnt see the sky is falling threads every year. But that goes back to my 2 lesser animals for the same price as 1 top shelf animal comment above.

I purchased all of my breeder animals for quality first and foremost, sometimes paying over retail to get the best of the best.

Now that I am producing top notch offspring, it is STILL hard to sell them. Selling babies is a TON of work with advertising and getting the word out there. If you do not already have the fan base of a Wilbanks or BHB, it can be very hard.

Also the majority of folks either cannot see the difference or do not care when it comes to higher quality of a given morph. Far and away I find that folks are shopping for the deal, not for the best they can find. That is sad to me, but the truth.

Just keep that in mind and know that the babies will likely not sell themselves, no matter what the quality.

Off to film a video and get the work out about a new clutch... ;)

I would agree that quality sells and that buyers are usually willing to pay slightly above market price for a very good example of a morph... say female pastels go for $75 - $125, you're more likely to get the $125 if it is an excellent pastel.

For myself, I am trying to buy quality examples of morphs that I would be interested in breeding, should I choose to later on. For me contrast, reduced pattern, cleanness of color, and floating "doughnuts" (on anything mojave-based), are things I look for. I am willing to pay a little more if the animal fits those criteria, and I'll just skip lesser-quality morphs and wait for the right one to become available.

I think if you start with quality, and breed for the traits you want (like those I listed above) in any morph you choose to work with, you'll do fine. Selling babies is a whole other ball game though and others might not agree with what you find desirable in certain morphs. I think that line breeding for certain traits definitely has its advantages though. As others have said, if you start with quality stock already, that will put you a few steps ahead in the game.

I personally am picking up only exemplary examples of the females I plan to use. I am starting ground level on some things but am picking up exceptional multi gene animals as well. I have spreadsheets, cost plans and am my own feeder factory. I am lucky enough to have made some friends right as I made my decision to breed. So find an end goal and make your plan based on what you want.