Very weak ball python

I have 3 ball pythons, 2 female and 1 male, and the male has become extremely weak and lethargic. The 3 snakes share a large terrarium with heat ~80f. this is the same setup ive used for as long as ive had them. 2 days ago was feeding time. both females ate their rats without issue, but the male was unable to kill his. he kept a bite on the rats head and kept it coiled for 3 hours, but never killed it. eventually i killed it for him. he started to eat it, but was unable to swallow more than the head and spit it out. yesterday i got him much smaller prey. he ate a mouse pinkie, although it took 2 hours and he never killed it. he then ate a mouse hopper, but it again took hours. i moved up to the rat fuzzy, but despite holding on to it for hours, never killed it. he now seems uninterested in the rat.

during the struggle with the original rat i believe the rats claws did some damage as there are now 2 spots half way down his body that have lost the green scales. the skin does not seem to be broken and he isnt reacting any differently to being touched near the spots.

i usually feed once a month and it is not unusual for him to refuse food for months at a time. he has gone as long as 9 months, but without ever losing strength or energy. this time, i believe its been 4 months but he has lost significant mass and has almost no strength. if i pink him up he mostly dangles limp although he will lift his head and occasionally flick his tongue. I am not sure what to do at this point. he does have food in his system now although a pinkie and hopper mouse arent much for a 3.5 foot snake. there is only one vet nearby that could tell me anything but i cant get there for atleast a few days.

he was a rescue so i do not know his age but the female that was rescued with him is perfectly healthy. i have had them for about 10 years and they were mostly grown when i got them.

i bought more pinkie mice today in hopes he would be interested in more slow food, but he expressed little interest.

any thoughts on what i should do would be greatly appreciated. i do have a few pictures but i cannot post attachments for some reason.

edit:
i just read about possible dehydration.

(quoted)
Dehydration can also cause appetite loss. If the neck skin had been abnormal, that is a sign of severe dehydration, which can only be treated by a vet. I am very concerned because you said your snake seems weak and limp. Buy an electrolyte solution. In the USA, that would be unflavored Pedialyte In the UK, it would be a product called Lectaid, which is sold in pet stores. In Australia, it’s a human product called Dioralyte. Prepare a shallow bath consisting of 1/2 water and 1/2 electrolyte solution. Soak your snake for about 20 to 30 minutes twice a day. Reptiles can absorb the electrolytes and fluids through their vents (where droppings pass out), so make the water deep enough to cover the vent. Be sure to supervise closely.
(end quote)

the skin under his neck looks like it is sunken into the neck ( in one of the pictures that i cent upload) so definitely not normal.

does this change how i should go about treating him?

Load the pics to Photobucket and then add the IMG code into the text. When you press post it turns the IMG code into a pic in your post.

Im not sure what this may be but Im thinking internal parasite. It may be very wise to separate him from the others until you figure this out.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...psa4914d9d.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...ps0d5bfebf.jpg

Holy smokes! :(

I think you need a vet visit quick for that one.

I would separate it and find somebody that can see you immediately. Usually a vet will squeeze you in if you make them understand its a dire situation.

Is your tank just aspen bedding with a water bowl?

I think you may have some things we can help you with to make that tank serve you better and help keep the heat and humidity where it should be.

Run us through your setup giving us the equipment used and a pic would be awesome. Also give what temps and humidity levels you keep the tank at.

Once a month doesn't seem like frequent enough feedings/offerings to me, especially since he doesn't take the food every time you offer it. :/ Most of mine are youngish, but I feed them once a week. Are you sure you're offering him enough food frequently enough?

I hope he gets better, he definitely looks in a bad way.

The poor wee guy. :(

Have a read of our caresheet.

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Originally Posted by Running Elk

Once a month doesn't seem like frequent enough feedings/offerings to me, especially since he doesn't take the food every time you offer it. :/ Most of mine are youngish, but I feed them once a week. Are you sure you're offering him enough food frequently enough?

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Adult feedings are a lot different than a growing hatchling.
Some of my males only eat a couple times a year.

How long has it been since he had a meal before this and how much has his weight changed?

Ok, first you have mature three adults co-habitating. I suspect the male has worn himself out breeding the two females. Yes, the males will kill themselves breeding over feeding, and even if that isn't the problem, if he's sick then you don't want the others catching whatever he's got. All three should be separated ASAP.

Second, your heat. Either they need ambient in the mid-80's all the time, or they need a gradient, 80*F cool and 90*F warm, so they can thermoregulate and digest their food properly.

Third, if the male is too weak to kill prey then he'll have to go on pre-killed or frozen/thaw. You may end up assist-feeding him for a few meals - I would suggest f/t adult mice or f/t rat pups that have been dusted with NutriBAC probiotic to help him digest, until he's strong enough to take a meal on his own.

I didnt even catch the all in one tank problem......

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I didnt even catch the all in one tank problem......

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That was the first thing I noticed. Talk about fighting for space/heat! I'm sure that snake is pretty stressed.

thank you for the suggestions.

i took him this morning to the exotic vet. he was still very weak when i dropped him off and the vet called 10 minutes later saying he had died before they could finish the exam. I am having a necropsy done to see what caused the problem and if there is any chance the others may have a similar problem. for now the 2 others appear in perfect health with active movement, excellent feeding drive, and nothing to indicate illness. i should have necropsy results some time next week. the tank sits in my computer room that runs 80f ambient and the heat lamp gives a 90f basking spot. they have a large hide half under the heat lamp half not where they spend most of the time although they will lay around the water dish on the cooler side or bask on top of the hide. im not sure of the humidity, but its high enough that the dont have shedding issues.

i will update the thread when i get the necropsy results or something changes with the remaining snakes.

I'm assuming he has been over-bred, in there with two females.. :l

They shared the tank for 10 years and I only ever saw him breed once. There were never any eggs.

You don't always see them "doing it".

I put my male Brazilian Rainbow in with the female earlier this year (on purpose) in the late winter and early spring. I never did catch a lock... but she presented me with a litter of 25 worms last June.

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Originally Posted by weak ball python

thank you for the suggestions.

i took him this morning to the exotic vet. he was still very weak when i dropped him off and the vet called 10 minutes later saying he had died before they could finish the exam. I am having a necropsy done to see what caused the problem and if there is any chance the others may have a similar problem. for now the 2 others appear in perfect health with active movement, excellent feeding drive, and nothing to indicate illness. i should have necropsy results some time next week. the tank sits in my computer room that runs 80f ambient and the heat lamp gives a 90f basking spot. they have a large hide half under the heat lamp half not where they spend most of the time although they will lay around the water dish on the cooler side or bask on top of the hide. im not sure of the humidity, but its high enough that the dont have shedding issues.

i will update the thread when i get the necropsy results or something changes with the remaining snakes.

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Good for you getting a necro done and finding out for sure one way or another what happened to him.

I hope you separated the two females that are/were living in the tank with the male. Ball pythons are solitary creatures and do not want company. Some of your excuses might include "they look fine", "they've been together for years and get along" or "I don't have the room/supplies to separate them". They may look fine but at the least, being together is stressing them both out. If you do not have the room or supplies for both to live separately then you need to do what's best for them and give one away to a home that will take proper care if it.

Sorry if I'm coming off as rude but I absolutely hate when people are not taking proper care of their animals and don't take the time to do the research and see that ball pythons should not live together. It's basically a form if animal abuse/ neglect


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Originally Posted by Ballpythoncrazy

... Sorry if I'm coming off as rude but...


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Yup, you are.

The author posted on this forum because he was concerned and was seeking advice, which was the appropriate thing to do. Employees at PetSmart, Petco, etc. often don't know what they're talking about, so it's nice to have a place like this to find some real answers.

The loss of the animal was hard enough. I doubt the mistakes will be made again, so play nice. Judgments aren't going to make him feel any better and they certainly aren't going to generate any sort of positive reaction.


Commandokev, I'm sorry for the loss. Take the responses here with a grain of salt, but do try your best to learn from them. Remember that if you feel/notice anything odd, even if it's probably nothing, it's a good idea to give the vet a call first, then post here.

Best of luck with your two females. Keep them safe and healthy.

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Originally Posted by Stargazer735

Commandokev, I'm sorry for the loss.

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​Pssst... this wasn't the OP...

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

​Pssst... this wasn't the OP...

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Ahem, like I said... :oops:

weak ball python, I'm sorry for the loss. Go change your screen name to something a bit more uplifting. :P

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Originally Posted by Ballpythoncrazy

It's basically a form if animal abuse/ neglect

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Housing two or three BP's together is not animal abuse.

The guy has had them for 10 years. He apparently knows something about how to do it.

Personally I would never house more than one in a single enclosure, and I feed mine more than once a month, but that is just me, and what do I know about it :rolleye2::rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

​Pssst... this wasn't the OP...

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That is just proof that he didn't even read the entire thread before posting. Just found a post he/she didn't agree with and went off on a tangent.

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Originally Posted by 200xth

Housing two or three BP's together is not animal abuse.

The guy has had them for 10 years. He apparently knows something about how to do it.

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Just because someone has been doing something for a long time doesn't mean they know what they're doing. If you ask ANY ball python breeder (or anyone who has done any research at all before choosing to own a bp) they'll tell you that you DO NOT house bps together, unless you're purposely trying to breed them.
You say it's not animal abuse/ neglect but this post right here is proof that it is! Just because it was an accident doesn't make it excusable. If for some reason some "animal cops" (I don't know what their professional names are) were to enter his house and saw the three snakes, one being sickeningly skinny, they wouldn't just say "you look like you're doing a great job taking care of these snakes", they wouldn't just walk by, they'd seize possession of the animal and take it somewhere to get medical attention.

And as an earlier post stated, Petco/ petsmart people don't always know what they're talking about and it's easy to get bad info from them. WELL DUH. again, if he had done any research before deciding to own these bps he would know that big chain pet stores are not the place to go for anything. Not for animals not for advice not for anything. Everyone in the reptile community knows that.

http://www.rcreptiles.com/forum/about1343.html

http://www.rcreptiles.com/blog/index...all_python_in_


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ballpythoncrazy

Just because someone has been doing something for a long time doesn't mean they know what they're doing. If you ask ANY ball python breeder (or anyone who has done any research at all before choosing to own a bp) they'll tell you that you DO NOT house bps together, unless you're purposely trying to breed them.
You say it's not animal abuse/ neglect but this post right here is proof that it is! Just because it was an accident doesn't make it excusable. If for some reason some "animal cops" (I don't know what their professional names are) were to enter his house and saw the three snakes, one being sickeningly skinny, they wouldn't just say "you look like you're doing a great job taking care of these snakes", they wouldn't just walk by, they'd seize possession of the animal and take it somewhere to get medical attention.

And as an earlier post stated, Petco/ petsmart people don't always know what they're talking about and it's easy to get bad info from them. WELL DUH. again, if he had done any research before deciding to own these bps he would know that big chain pet stores are not the place to go for anything. Not for animals not for advice not for anything. Everyone in the reptile community knows that.

http://www.rcreptiles.com/forum/about1343.html

http://www.rcreptiles.com/blog/index...all_python_in_


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You speak big about a subject that you have only read about, and I commend the fact that you are trying to broaden your knowledge.
BUT you are only regurgitating what you have read.
Do we recommend you house balls or any other snake together? No.
Can they be housed together successfully? Yes they can.
So before you decide to speak for "ALL" of us that are breeders please don't put words in my mouth.
Thank you.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

...before you decide to speak for "ALL" of us that are breeds, please don't put words in my mouth...

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Pardon my light-heartedness, but this typo (or not?) is priceless. Those of us that are breeds... from a PitOnTheProwl... that right there is funny! :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Pardon my light-heartedness, but this typo (or not?) is priceless. Those of us that are breeds... from a PitOnTheProwl... that right there is funny! :rofl:

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Dont know what you are speaking of sir.;)

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Originally Posted by Ballpythoncrazy

Just because someone has been doing something for a long time doesn't mean they know what they're doing. If you ask ANY ball python breeder (or anyone who has done any research at all before choosing to own a bp) they'll tell you that you DO NOT house bps together, unless you're purposely trying to breed them.
You say it's not animal abuse/ neglect but this post right here is proof that it is! Just because it was an accident doesn't make it excusable. If for some reason some "animal cops" (I don't know what their professional names are) were to enter his house and saw the three snakes, one being sickeningly skinny, they wouldn't just say "you look like you're doing a great job taking care of these snakes", they wouldn't just walk by, they'd seize possession of the animal and take it somewhere to get medical attention.

And as an earlier post stated, Petco/ petsmart people don't always know what they're talking about and it's easy to get bad info from them. WELL DUH. again, if he had done any research before deciding to own these bps he would know that big chain pet stores are not the place to go for anything. Not for animals not for advice not for anything. Everyone in the reptile community knows that.

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Conversely, someone who read something somewhere doesn't necessarily know what they're doing either.

I am of the belief that at some point, a person passes from the status of "crackpot doing it all wrong" to "guy who might know something about what he's doing", and that point is well before 10 years has passed.

You are going to read a lot of absolute facts about snakes and keeping snakes, and not all of them will be as absolute as you are led to believe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Pardon my light-heartedness, but this typo (or not?) is priceless. Those of us that are breeds... from a PitOnTheProwl... that right there is funny! :rofl:

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Hey, I'm not a breed, I'm a mutt!

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Dont know what you are speaking of sir.;)

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I love that you left the quote I used as it was written originally and edited your own post... an honest cheater. :) Now, if you would've edited all versions to hide the evidence, I would've shouted conspiracy! :colbert:

I got a call from the exotic vet today with the necropsy results. "Kidney failure due to old age". He was a rescue that I had for 10 years, so I had no idea of his real age. Fortunately it is not something that I have to worry about my other BPs having contracted from him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Adult feedings are a lot different than a growing hatchling.
Some of my males only eat a couple times a year.

How long has it been since he had a meal before this and how much has his weight changed?

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Even my adults usually take food once a week, except during breeding season. Even if they take food less than once a week, I feel like one should offer food once a week approximately.

Especially because this guy seems in a bad way.

- - - Updated - - -

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Originally Posted by weak ball python

I got a call from the exotic vet today with the necropsy results. "Kidney failure due to old age". He was a rescue that I had for 10 years, so I had no idea of his real age. Fortunately it is not something that I have to worry about my other BPs having contracted from him.

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Oh wow, I'm sorry for your loss. :(

I'm so sorry for your loss.