What are your opinions on hets?

Are hets worth the the gamble and are het babies hard to sell? I am not knocking hets at all I am just wanting people with more het /snake breeding experience opinions. Thanks for reading and taking the time to respond.

Hets are not a gamble, possible hets are. I never had any issue selling hets.


Now possible hets are a gamble but sometimes it is worth it especially when you are holding back your own animals

Proved out 3 possible females so far this year and I think it was worth it.

http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/a...014Cl03_03.jpg

http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/a..._Clown_M03.jpg

http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/a...Clutch17_2.jpg

100% Hets aren't a gamble. The breeder you buy one from would be the gamble. Do your homework and buy from someone with a good track record and you have nothing to worry about. Plenty of good people on here.

I agree if you know and trust the breeder, you should be just fine.

As everyone above stated, 100% hets are not a gamble as long as the source is trustworty. The other possible hets ar 50% where you breead a 100% het to a non het, and 66% possible het when you breed a 100% het to a 100% het. In both instances the percentage refers to the likelyness that an individual snake produced in the clutch, not showing visible attributes of the gene, could carry the heterzygous gene. In those cases a breeder may share that there is a possibility the snake carries the gene, but the pricing should still truly only reflect the visual genes apparent, and you should be looking at the animal for those visual components. If you dinker with them later and they prove out, then that is the bonus. If they don't then you have the snake you intended to purchase anyways. As far as selling hets, I agree that 100% hets should be reasonably as likely to sell as the market demands, but possible hets is like being given a free scratch off ticket with a $100 purchase. Its possible you'll end up with more but don't count on it so if your spending a $100 then make certain you like what your buying and it's worth a $100.

well there IS a bit of a gamble... :)
breeding a pied to a pied will get you 100% pieds, no gamble
breeding het to het SHOULD get you 25% pieds
breeding het to pied SHOULD get you 50% pieds

breeding het to het, you may not get any visuals, but then again you may get lucky and get more than 25%, that is the gamble :) (assuming the breeder is trustworthy)
breeding het to visual, you would have to be very unlucky to not get any visuals, but I suppose it could happen...

so let me get this right, if you breed to 100% hets together the normal babies (with markers or some clue of het) would only be 66% het?

Thank you all so much.. this forum is an awesome learning place and the people have been awesome!

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Originally Posted by yzguy

well there IS a bit of a gamble... :)
breeding a pied to a pied will get you 100% pieds, no gamble

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What if all you get are slugs wouldn't have that been a gamble too than?

Anything can be considered gamble when breeding animals. the case here is that hets are no gamble they will (if they produce) produce visuals sooner or later.

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Originally Posted by JPerkins

so let me get this right, if you breed to 100% hets together the normal babies (with markers or some clue of het) would only be 66% het?

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Yes het to het result in the offsprings being considered 66% hets

Het to normal will result in the offsprings being considered 50% hets

Visual to normal will result in the offsprings being 100% hets

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Originally Posted by JPerkins

so let me get this right, if you breed to 100% hets together the normal babies (with markers or some clue of het) would only be 66% het?

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For clarity's sake, the individual babies themselves either are or are not het (sort of like a light switch - on or off). The catch is that you typically don't have a way at differentiating those that are, or are not, hets until breeding. The percentages reflect the probability that the normal looking babies are carrying a recessive gene - not anything about the individuals themselves. A 66% het will not produce any more or less visual offspring than a 50% het if it turns out that neither animal is actually het for their recessive trait (there's no such thing as a partial het).

well I know that they would be het or not het; but wouldn't breeding two 100% percentages together make the babies that are het 100% or only 66%? This is where I really have trouble is figuring out the percentages.

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Originally Posted by JPerkins

well I know that they would be het or not het; but wouldn't breeding two 100% percentages together make the babies that are het 100% or only 66%? This is where I really have trouble is figuring out the percentages.

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A picture is worth 1000 words:
http://www.discern-genetics.org/images/6.1.gif

In this example, lets say blue is Piebald - a recessive trait. Both parents are 100% het Piebald (not visual, but carrying the trait). Of the offspring, there is a 1/4 chance at a Piebald (visual recessive). Of the other three, only 2/3 are carrying the Piebald trait - the other 1/3 is not. Because you can't tell which of the non-visual offspring are carrying the Piebald trait, all of the non-visual offspring are considered 66% hets.

Better?

i personally love 100% hets.....i think of them as codoms (with the visual recessive being the super form).

a normal het may or may not be valuable depending on the sex and type of recessive gene it carries. for example male normal het albino, this is not an ideal candidate for breeding albino projects, so it could be difficult to sell to a hobbyist. female normal hets on the other hand are win win. more hobbyists want them, and if they don't get sold, you can raise them for future projects.

to get higher chances of producing visuals and ensuring all non-visuals are 100% hets, i plan to limit my pairings to visuals x hets.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

A picture is worth 1000 words:
http://www.discern-genetics.org/images/6.1.gif

In this example, lets say blue is Piebald - a recessive trait. Both parents are 100% het Piebald (not visual, but carrying the trait). Of the offspring, there is a 1/4 chance at a Piebald (visual recessive). Of the other three, only 2/3 are carrying the Piebald trait - the other 1/3 is not. Because you can't tell which of the non-visual offspring are carrying the Piebald trait, all of the non-visual offspring are considered 66% hets.

Better?

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YES! Thank you!

Mine is a visual to 100% het that would make all non visuals 100% het also correct?

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Originally Posted by zachbinger

Mine is a visual to 100% het that would make all non visuals 100% het also correct?

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Yes you would get 50% chance of visuals and all the normal looking babies will bee 100% het

Wow...:bow: thanks for all the Info..I would like to breed a spider with a piebald would one gene be stronger than the other or would it depend on thier individual gene?

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Originally Posted by ritche

Wow...:bow: thanks for all the Info..I would like to breed a spider with a piebald would one gene be stronger than the other or would it depend on thier individual gene?

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Not sure about your question here and what you mean by stronger gene?

If you breed Spider to Pied you will get 50% Spider and 50% Normal looking offsprings all 100% Het for Pied (Those are odds per eggs)

If I may take a different angle on this question. As a future breeder of snakes even if your "just in it for the fun" you have to approach it as a business because those baby snakes are gonna need to go somewhere. If you factor in the caging and feeding cost and time invested then on top of that add the fact that your going to get less money for the babies and have a harder time selling them then.... A Het Pied may be $100, but a Pied is $500 so that "small" investment of $400 is going to gain you much more down the road when you factor in possible yearly clutches. Not to mention your going to have a cooler snake to look at. So my straight forward answer is this: If you have the money then stay away from normal Hets like het pied, het albinos, het ghosts. These are not worth the risk as a future breeder. The exception would be multiple gene+Hets like a Pastel Leopard het ghost or the occasional double het like het albino/pied. Just my 2cents

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Not sure about your question here and what you mean by stronger gene?

If you breed Spider to Pied you will get 50% Spider and 50% Normal looking offsprings all 100% Het for Pied (Those are odds per eggs)

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What I ask is..would they be more likely to be spider or piebald?Why would they be normal with one spider and the other piebald?I really don’t know….i’m not trying to be a breeder ..just thought the mix would be cool looking…..thankx

Because pieds are recessive. Unless that spider was het for pied, the only outcome would be normals or spiders with either of them being 100% guarantee to be carrying the gene for pieds


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

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Originally Posted by Solarsoldier001

Because pieds are recessive. Unless that spider was het for pied, the only outcome would be normals or spiders with either of them being 100% guarantee to be carrying the gene for pieds


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

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Thanks I hope o can come back and reference this when I need too...thanks for the info...you have a pic of a spider I think in clutch 2 wow I think she is gorgeous..pretty clutch..are you keeping them or ?..i am looking for spider maybe pied ..i dont know always looking.....anyway thanks for the input

if you want to play with "what happens when I breed X and Y" This site can be useful, and has a lot of pics:

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/

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Originally Posted by Solarsoldier001

Because pieds are recessive. Unless that spider was het for pied, the only outcome would be normals or spiders with either of them being 100% guarantee to be carrying the gene for pieds


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

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Originally Posted by yzguy

if you want to play with "what happens when I breed X and Y" This site can be useful, and has a lot of pics:

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/

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Solarsoldier001does that mean it would or if they were spiders it would be a spider het for pied is that right?And if it was a normal it would be het for spider and piebald……I hope I got that right please tell me I got that right…

Yzguy I really thought it my give me a picture I guess.. I appreciate it , but with my learning disability I really can’t wrap my mind around the het recessive…like I said I’m not trying to create anything . I just thought my two favorite morphs would look cool together….i went to the site this was the resultsGenetic Wizard 3.0 calculations by

[url=http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/&male=83&female=91][img]http://www.worldofballpythons.com/gfx/logo.png[/img][/url]

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does that mean it would or if they were spiders it would be a spider het for pied is that right?And if it was a normal it would be het for spider and piebald……I hope I got that right please tell me I got that right…

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the first part is correct
second part is wrong. normals will be het pied only, cannot be het spider because there is no het spider.....

I'm going to guess that the first thing that is confusing you is realizing the difference between how the spider gene acts and how the pied gene acts.

the spider gene only requires one of the gene pair to have it, for you to see it in the animal. This means only one parent needs to have the gene in order to get spiders in the offspring (and you should get 50%)

pied is recessive, which means that it requires BOTH of the gene pair to have the pied gene, in order to SEE that the animal is pied. Since the offspring get one gene from each parent, that means that both parents need to have the pied gene in order to have any chance of getting a visual pied animal offspring.

but pied has another twist, if the animal only has one of the gene pairs as pied, that is het pied. you can't see it (there are arguments about markers, but we will not get into that), which means that this animal will contribute the pied gene to roughly half the offspring (and if the offspring also get the pied gene from the other parent, they will be visible pieds)

not sure if this would help, but it is another explanation:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Basic-Genetics