live, pre kill, f/t rat or mouse

I am coming up on his second feeding and I really want to get him started on what fits me and him best. I have read so much back and forth I am thinking about feeding him hamsters..jk..pet store was feeding him out of a brown paper bag I have no problem with that he fed like a champ his first time. he did eat a live mouse....are rats better/? and if I do feed him rats I should probably pre kill or f/t... if you pre kill and he doesn't eat can you freeze it?

I recommend to feed the same prey as previously fed for at least 3 to 5 meals, once well established in your care if you want to switch you can.

As for what to feed him it is up to you, what work best for your animal and is convenient for you. Gram per gram of prey it's all the same the advantage with rats is that once your BP is an adult you can feed a single prey versus multiple.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I recommend to feed the same prey as previously fed for at least 3 to 5 meals, once well established in your care if you want to switch you can.

As for what to feed him it is up to you, what work best for your animal and is convenient for you. Gram per gram of prey it's all the same the advantage with rats is that once your BP is an adult you can feed a single prey versus multiple.

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in your opinion will it be difficult to get him on f/t or prekill rat if he eats live mouse until he gets to the point of eating two..

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Originally Posted by ritche

in your opinion will it be difficult to get him on f/t or prekill rat if he eats live mouse until he gets to the point of eating two..

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I always recommend to do one step at the time, live mice to live rats and than live rats to f/t rats, it makes the transition a little smoother.

The earliest you switch the easier it gets, young individuals with a strong feeding response tend to switch fairly easily.

Rats are more nutritious, so the sooner you can get him on rats the better. Even a hatchling should be able to eat a rat pinkie.

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Originally Posted by albinos_rule

Rats are more nutritious, so the sooner you can get him on rats the better. Even a hatchling should be able to eat a rat pinkie.

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thanks... I have read that.... are they difficult to get? or easy to breed?

I appreciate any advice on this I am probably going to try and breed to save a little

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Originally Posted by ritche

thanks... I have read that.... are they difficult to get? or easy to breed?

I appreciate any advice on this I am probably going to try and breed to save a little

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It all depends where you live and what's around you. For me personally, it's easy to get either rats or mice becaw I live close to a reptile store that sells feeders. Don't know about breeding though.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by albinos_rule

Rats are more nutritious, so the sooner you can get him on rats the better. Even a hatchling should be able to eat a rat pinkie.

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While their is a difference in the nutritional value, no study has been made on BP nutritional requirement, in other words gram per gram it's all the same.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

While their is a difference in the nutritional value, no study has been made on BP nutritional requirement, in other words gram per gram it's all the same.

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I think i'm going to keep with mice atleast... until I get the rat breeding thing going to try and keep my cost down...about how long does it take to thaw a rat? if he doesn't eat the rat can you refreeze?..

and thanks for the help..

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Originally Posted by Deborah

While their is a difference in the nutritional value, no study has been made on BP nutritional requirement, in other words gram per gram it's all the same.

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Ok didn't know that. I was always told that rats had more nutrition. Learn something new every day :gj:

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Originally Posted by ritche

I think i'm going to keep with mice atleast... until I get the rat breeding thing going to try and keep my cost down...about how long does it take to thaw a rat? if he doesn't eat the rat can you refreeze?..

and thanks for the help..

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I usually thaw feeders in a 6qt tub. I just use hot bath water, wait about 15 min, dump the water and fill the tub back up, then let set for another 20-30 minutes. But keep in mind that I'm usually thawing out 5-10 rats at a time in one tub. Sometimes it takes less time if I'm only feeding a few rats at a time.

As for re-freezing, I don't. I took microbiology as a requirement for Nursing School and now there are some people food items that I won't eat if it's been sitting out on the counter for more than 30 minutes. I'm not really a germophobe, but I am a little grossed out when I found out just how many germs were on hot lasagna after an hour on the counter (we did an experiment). Letting a dead rat sit out for 30min-overnight is just asking for the decomposition process to continue and you're going to get some bacteria in there. Not only that, when you freeze, thaw, and refreeze, you are changing the integrity of the skin and your rat will be more prone to busting at the stomach (been there, smelt that...no thank you). For me, I'd rather not risk the bacteria/decomp process and the threat of busted stomachs so I never refreeze. That said, some people will advocate to refreeze once. I'd only recommend that if you just offered the F/T rat and they didn't take it. if you leave the rat in for over an hour (some leave the F/T rats in overnight), then don't refreeze.

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

I usually thaw feeders in a 6qt tub. I just use hot bath water, wait about 15 min, dump the water and fill the tub back up, then let set for another 20-30 minutes. But keep in mind that I'm usually thawing out 5-10 rats at a time in one tub. Sometimes it takes less time if I'm only feeding a few rats at a time.

As for re-freezing, I don't. I took microbiology as a requirement for Nursing School and now there are some people food items that I won't eat if it's been sitting out on the counter for more than 30 minutes. I'm not really a germophobe, but I am a little grossed out when I found out just how many germs were on hot lasagna after an hour on the counter (we did an experiment). Letting a dead rat sit out for 30min-overnight is just asking for the decomposition process to continue and you're going to get some bacteria in there. Not only that, when you freeze, thaw, and refreeze, you are changing the integrity of the skin and your rat will be more prone to busting at the stomach (been there, smelt that...no thank you). For me, I'd rather not risk the bacteria/decomp process and the threat of busted stomachs so I never refreeze. That said, some people will advocate to refreeze once. I'd only recommend that if you just offered the F/T rat and they didn't take it. if you leave the rat in for over an hour (some leave the F/T rats in overnight), then don't refreeze.

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thank you I appreciate the info. in your opinion do you think two mice would be fine instead of feeding rats I have a few mice working on breeding or do you think rats are that much better maybe I should try to get a few for babies.. I had planned mice but really want best for my ball and any future pets...thanks again

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Originally Posted by ritche

thank you I appreciate the info. in your opinion do you think two mice would be fine instead of feeding rats I have a few mice working on breeding or do you think rats are that much better maybe I should try to get a few for babies.. I had planned mice but really want best for my ball and any future pets...thanks again

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It's up to you. I prefer rats because I only need to feed one prey item at a time. I have one snake who is eating mice and she eats 3-4 mice per sitting. It takes so long for me to feed her because I put in a live mouse and wait for her to swallow, then another, then another, and so forth and so on. I can feed my entire collection in the time it takes me to feed her. If she would eat rats...I'd only have to give her one prey item. Another thing to consider is that some animals won't eat more than one prey item. I have a male normal that refuses to eat more than one prey item. Luckily he's on rats. If he was on mice, he'd be very thin.

Do what works best for you. Most people (myself included) find it's a lot easier to feed one rat than several mice. Not only is it quicker, but you also don't have to breed near as many babies. You can go through an entire litter of mice in a couple of feedings.

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

It's up to you. I prefer rats because I only need to feed one prey item at a time. I have one snake who is eating mice and she eats 3-4 mice per sitting. It takes so long for me to feed her because I put in a live mouse and wait for her to swallow, then another, then another, and so forth and so on. I can feed my entire collection in the time it takes me to feed her. If she would eat rats...I'd only have to give her one prey item. Another thing to consider is that some animals won't eat more than one prey item. I have a male normal that refuses to eat more than one prey item. Luckily he's on rats. If he was on mice, he'd be very thin.

Do what works best for you. Most people (myself included) find it's a lot easier to feed one rat than several mice. Not only is it quicker, but you also don't have to breed near as many babies. You can go through an entire litter of mice in a couple of feedings.

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thank you.... ultimately if I can keep him eating I will be happy

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Originally Posted by ritche

thank you.... ultimately if I can keep him eating I will be happy

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I'm the same way. I'd rather them eat than not eat at all. The female I was talking about who only eats mice....she used to only eat ASFs. She laid eggs back in July (due to hatch this week) and I finally got her to take live mice. Mice are a lot easier for me to get a hold of than ASFs. So for now I'm just happy she's eating. I'd love to try and get her on rats...but so far nothing. I'll just give her mice if that means she'll keep eating for me

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

I'm the same way. I'd rather them eat than not eat at all. The female I was talking about who only eats mice....she used to only eat ASFs. She laid eggs back in July (due to hatch this week) and I finally got her to take live mice. Mice are a lot easier for me to get a hold of than ASFs. So for now I'm just happy she's eating. I'd love to try and get her on rats...but so far nothing. I'll just give her mice if that means she'll keep eating for me

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thanks for the help I really want all the little babies to be happy ...in a few years maybe sooner ..would like to have a few breeding and really save money by breeding some mice and rats if needed.

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Originally Posted by ritche

thanks for the help I really want all the little babies to be happy ...in a few years maybe sooner ..would like to have a few breeding and really save money by breeding some mice and rats if needed.

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It really saves money after you get a lot of snakes. I breed my own rats (roughly 2.18 - I rotate the females) and I have enough for my live eaters and most of my F/T eaters. I'll be expanding my production later this year. I only spend about $30 on rat food and $25 on bedding a month. It saves me a lot of money when I don't have to order rats or pay pet store prices for live feeders.

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

It really saves money after you get a lot of snakes. I breed my own rats (roughly 2.18 - I rotate the females) and I have enough for my live eaters and most of my F/T eaters. I'll be expanding my production later this year. I only spend about $30 on rat food and $25 on bedding a month. It saves me a lot of money when I don't have to order rats or pay pet store prices for live feeders.

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thank you and appreciate the help. always better to ask someone .I know that will be my cheapest route.... if you don't mind on your f/t do you freeze live?

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Originally Posted by ritche

thank you and appreciate the help. always better to ask someone .I know that will be my cheapest route.... if you don't mind on your f/t do you freeze live?

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I only freeze pinks/fuzzies live (only because CO2 won't kill them). Anything bigger than that gets put through the gas chamber first. My gas chamber is a tub hooked up to a CO2 canister. I do everything humanely.

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

I only freeze pinks/fuzzies live (only because CO2 won't kill them). Anything bigger than that gets put through the gas chamber first. My gas chamber is a tub hooked up to a CO2 canister. I do everything humanely.

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I will have to look into the co2 I know nothing about it ...really appreciate the information...do you use tubs for your rats?

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Originally Posted by ritche

I will have to look into the co2 I know nothing about it ...really appreciate the information...do you use tubs for your rats?

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If you go to the DIY section of the forums, there are a lot of people who have made CO2 chambers. It's all good info. As for my rats, I use cement mixing tubs from Lowes and have the rats in a rack system. It works out really well.

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

If you go to the DIY section of the forums, there are a lot of people who have made CO2 chambers. It's all good info. As for my rats, I use cement mixing tubs from Lowes and have the rats in a rack system. It works out really well.

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thanks will do .. I appreciate the info..

No problem.