Abnormal Ball Python behavior.

Hello everyone! This is my first post on this forum and it concerns the abnormal behavior of my female juvenile Spider Ball Python. I will try to give as much detail on her to help diagnose the problem.

I purchased her from my local Petco and I do understand the risks in doing so. That being said, before I purchased her I came every week and held her to see in what condition she was living and her health in general. As far as I could tell they were taking decent care of their reptiles, besides from housing them in groups. While observing her I took the time to give a good look at the other snakes as well who were also alright, though one of the Normal Ball Pythons looked as though it had a hole on the top of its head but that could have possibly been from rubbing it against the hides.

Bringing her home for the first time I became very stressed because of her abnormal behavior. It had started with sneezing, and although she doesn't do it anymore and it may been have dust or the paper towels I used as substrate, it frightened me because I have never heard of snakes sneezing. I used paper towels to monitor for mites, which she didn't have but she was constantly sticking her face in her water dish and blowing bubbles, which was my next concern. She still does this every night when she comes out to take a drink. I actually had to decrease the amount of water I put in her bowl because she would stick her face in her water and stay there for a very very long time and I feared she might drown herself. Something I noticed a little while ago is that she often rests her head upside down. Her wobble isn't bad but when I'm holding her she does wobble a bit, and sometimes she will put her head backwards and lay her head on whatever may be behind her.

Another concern is her constant yawning. Every time I hold her she yawns at least once. I had her out for about a half hour yesterday while I was on the computer and she yawned three times. And when she yawns, she will open her mouth wide and then she will do this thing where she looks like she's chewing on something. That will last a few seconds. This yawning is not after she eats.

My final concern is the abnormal scalation on her head. There are two spots where the scales almost looked pinched and are very small, and expose a tiny bit skin. I tried to take a close up picture of it.

https://38.media.tumblr.com/112a5e7c...nw8o1_1280.jpg
https://31.media.tumblr.com/fb4a2333...nw8o7_1280.jpg

I have taken her to the vet, in which she got a perfect report card except for her being a tad bit underweight which is being fixed. This is the most recommended reptile vet in my area. If suggested, I am willing to take her to a vet out of state. I live in New Jersey.

She doesn't have any physical symptoms of an RI or mouth rot.

She is always very eager to eat, and she gets a f/t fuzzy mouse every 4 days (I haven't offered the last time because she is in shed. I am thinking of moving her up a size after she sheds.)

She is temporarily in a 10 gallon tank with Coconut Husk Fiber for substrate. She has two hide boxes and a large water bowl that she could curl up into if she wanted. Currently I am heating the cage with Day and Night heat lamps and the cage has an ambient temperature of 85F with a 90F hot spot. Humidity is always between 55 and 70%.

She is currently in the 180 gram weight area, but I do not know her hatch date.


If anyone knows anything about these behaviors it would put my mind at ease if you could share! Apologies for long post! ;_;

- very worried snake mom

I can't answer this thoroughly yet, but will re-read through it later when I get a chance, but..

Blowing bubbles in the water, happens with Ball Pythons. That's not to say every one does it, but its known to happen, and there aren't usually any issues associated with it. Just one of those goofy things they tend to do at times.

Constant yawning can be indicative of a respiratory infection or disorder. However again, they are known to yawn from time to time. if she isn't displaying any other symptoms of an RI (wheezing, mucous around the snout or mouth) ect. I wouldn't jump to conclusions or stress over it yet.


In regards to the head photos, I didn't see anything super alarming. But there does appear to be an old injury, scrape, or bad prior shed going on there. But it looks healed.


I'd also probably be offering her 2 F/T fuzzies. Just make sure the first is down before you offer the second. That seems like an awful small meal.

I don't know about the yawning or sneezing. If she's not having any of the other symptoms associated with RI or mouth rot, I would just keep an eye on her and not stress unless any other symptoms start.

The spot on her head looks like a healing rub spot. My normal bp has a similar patch on his head but it improves with each shed. If it gets worse, or changes significantly in size or texture, I would take her to a vet to have I checked out.

The wobble doesn't sound too unusual, my lesser bee will do similar things. So long as she's eating and such, I wouldn't be worried. Lemon will loop like a rollercoaster when I hold him ad wobbles when he's stressed, but eats like champ (now that he's not fasting, anyways...)

Fuzzy mice are too small though, most hatchlings start on hopper mice so I would definitely up her prey size if you want to see some growth and weight increase!

Most of mine yawn as well occasionally.

The scale issue on the head looks like a injury from shedding where a scale popped off. No big deal as it happens. After a few sheds it will likely disappear or be hardly noticeable.

I would certainly move a 180 gram BP up to rat pups. I feed every 5 days until around 250 - 300 grams, and then go to every 7 days.

Thank you all for responding so quickly! It definitely puts my mind more at ease! I'm so relieved there's not anything terribly wrong.

I will still keep tabs on everything to see if it escalates. And as for meal size, I will most definitely give her some bigger sized meals when she's out of shed as planned.

Spiders are pretty weird animals, so the lying upside down, blowing bubbles, etc isn't all that weird with that gene. Even if she doesn't wobble too bad, those are both fairly common with the neurological abnormalities that go with being a Spider. I wouldn't worry too much unless you see it getting significantly more severe. Same with the yawning and sneezing, if that gets worse, definitely get a,second opinion-- I live in PA and I love my vet, so if you wanted a second opinion, I can refer you.

If any of these behaviors escalate I would absolutely appreciate it if you could refer me! I will post updates on her when I notice any improvement or worsening. Thank you very much :)

When my vet thought that my Bp was developing an RI, she told me to switch substrate to paper towel (I was using aspen bedding) and to give him a "bath" twice a week. I just have him soak in a tub of warm water, keep it covered for humidity.
The sneezing and whatnot is definitely a sign of a respiratory infection though. Is she star gazing too? They're known to stare up to let the fluids in their throat drain during an RI.


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why would your vet encourage higher humidity (like sitting in a tub of water) for an RI?

Seems odd. Typically I'd advise to increase the ambient temperature, but lower the humidity.

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Originally Posted by Tayler.jonesy

When my vet thought that my Bp was developing an RI, she told me to switch substrate to paper towel (I was using aspen bedding) and to give him a "bath" twice a week. I just have him soak in a tub of warm water, keep it covered for humidity.
The sneezing and whatnot is definitely a sign of a respiratory infection though. Is she star gazing too? They're known to stare up to let the fluids in their throat drain during an RI.

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She only sneezed the first day I got her home, so it was probably just a change in environment. I don't believe she has an RI because she doesn't have any of the indicator symptoms like open mouthed/labored breathing and nasal discharge, though I won't discount the possibility. She does sometimes point her head up but I think its mostly her wobble.

Right now I have her humidity up around 70% but the only reason is because she's in shed. When she's done its going right back to the 60% range.

Like the others said, high humidity is bad when you have a sick snake. I don't know what your vet might have been thinking in giving you that treatment. They should have cultured and prescribed antibiotics if it was an RI.

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Originally Posted by Venoshock

She only sneezed the first day I got her home, so it was probably just a change in environment. I don't believe she has an RI because she doesn't have any of the indicator symptoms like open mouthed/labored breathing and nasal discharge, though I won't discount the possibility. She does sometimes point her head up but I think its mostly her wobble.

Right now I have her humidity up around 70% but the only reason is because she's in shed. When she's done its going right back to the 60% range.

Like the others said, high humidity is bad when you have a sick snake. I don't know what your vet might have been thinking in giving you that treatment. They should have cultured and prescribed antibiotics if it was an RI.

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He didn't end up having an RI. I thought it was strange advice as well, but I followed it and he's been fine. His cage humidity is around 30 to 40 percent on any given day, because I know too much can cause an RI.

Like the others said, spiders are known to be weeeeird ones. Maybe yours is just a little extra weird ;)


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tayler.jonesy

He didn't end up having an RI. I thought it was strange advice as well, but I followed it and he's been fine. His cage humidity is around 30 to 40 percent on any given day, because I know too much can cause an RI.

Like the others said, spiders are known to be weeeeird ones. Maybe yours is just a little extra weird ;)

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I'd say 30-40% is low to be a constant humidity and can cause bad sheds. I usually aim for a constant 55-60%. Too much humidity would be anything over 75% in my opinion, so I wouldn't worry about bumping up your humidity levels!

And yeah, I guess she's pretty darn weird! :P

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Originally Posted by Venoshock

I'd say 30-40% is low to be a constant humidity and can cause bad sheds. I usually aim for a constant 55-60%. Too much humidity would be anything over 75% in my opinion, so I wouldn't worry about bumping up your humidity levels!

And yeah, I guess she's pretty darn weird! :P

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Probably why the vet told me to soak him haha. Unfortunately I work a buttload of hours so it's a little difficult for me to keep an eye on his humidity. But you know I'm on it during his shed. The pet store I got him from were terrible at keeping up humidity, he use to have bad sheds, but they come off in one piece now. Thank god. I always fear stuck eye caps, had that problem when I first got him


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tayler.jonesy

Probably why the vet told me to soak him haha. Unfortunately I work a buttload of hours so it's a little difficult for me to keep an eye on his humidity. But you know I'm on it during his shed. The pet store I got him from were terrible at keeping up humidity, he use to have bad sheds, but they come off in one piece now. Thank god. I always fear stuck eye caps, had that problem when I first got him

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If its trouble with a constant humidity you can put damp paper towels in their enclosure! When I was still in school and my mom refused to mist my snakes cage when I was gone, I would leave a few in the hide boxes! Kind of like makeshift humid hides. Its helped me a butt ton.

I'm actually expecting my girl to shed any time now so I'm hoping it'll be a good one!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Venoshock

If its trouble with a constant humidity you can put damp paper towels in their enclosure! When I was still in school and my mom refused to mist my snakes cage when I was gone, I would leave a few in the hide boxes! Kind of like makeshift humid hides. Its helped me a butt ton.

I'm actually expecting my girl to shed any time now so I'm hoping it'll be a good one!

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That's a good idea. Maybe wrap sphagnum moss with paper towels? I always fear bacterial growth, how long would that stuff be good for ya think?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tayler.jonesy

That's a good idea. Maybe wrap sphagnum moss with paper towels? I always fear bacterial growth, how long would that stuff be good for ya think?

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The paper towels usually last me a few extra hours after a misting. Though it depends how hot your temps are. When I left for school I would leave it around 80F and the humidity stayed constant longer. I haven't used sphagnum moss but I think the sphagnum alone would be pretty helpful! You should experiment when you have time! If you're worried about bacteria I heard you can bake the moss to get rid of bugs and lingering bacteria before using it.

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Originally Posted by Venoshock

The paper towels usually last me a few extra hours after a misting. Though it depends how hot your temps are. When I left for school I would leave it around 80F and the humidity stayed constant longer. I haven't used sphagnum moss but I think the sphagnum alone would be pretty helpful! You should experiment when you have time! If you're worried about bacteria I heard you can bake the moss to get rid of bugs and lingering bacteria before using it.

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The vet got me paranoid about bacteria. My butter loves to burrow, she told me to ditch the aspen bedding because it could cause an RI, he would burrow in the sphagnum too so I stopped using it fearing the worst.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tayler.jonesy

The vet got me paranoid about bacteria. My butter loves to burrow, she told me to ditch the aspen bedding because it could cause an RI, he would burrow in the sphagnum too so I stopped using it fearing the worst.

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I switch between coconut husk fiber and paper towels. I used newspaper once but I usually run out fast because I use it with my conure. I guess the easiest thing to use to monitor bacteria growth would be paper towels because its easier to spot feces and urine. You clean it when its dirty and disinfect the enclosure and that's it! :)

If aspen bedding caused RI's I don't think any snake keeper would use it! Is there a different vet in your area? Yours sounds very unreliable. :/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Venoshock

I switch between coconut husk fiber and paper towels. I used newspaper once but I usually run out fast because I use it with my conure. I guess the easiest thing to use to monitor bacteria growth would be paper towels because its easier to spot feces and urine. You clean it when its dirty and disinfect the enclosure and that's it! :)

If aspen bedding caused RI's I don't think any snake keeper would use it! Is there a different vet in your area? Yours sounds very unreliable. :/

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Unfortunately this vet was the most recommended. Not many rep vets in the metro Detroit area. It took her like ten minutes to probe him lol. I am still waiting on his poop test results, which was suppose to be done within 9 hours. It's been over a week o.O


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tayler.jonesy

Unfortunately this vet was the most recommended. Not many rep vets in the metro Detroit area. It took her like ten minutes to probe him lol. I am still waiting on his poop test results, which was suppose to be done within 9 hours. It's been over a week o.O

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Ouch. That sucks :/ That's why I'm going to college to be a Vet Tech. I'll be able to take even better care of my animals and help others with theirs! Although, that's still ways away. ;)

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Originally Posted by Venoshock

Ouch. That sucks :/ That's why I'm going to college to be a Vet Tech. I'll be able to take even better care of my animals and help others with theirs! Although, that's still ways away. ;)

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No way, I planned on doing the exact same thing. Vet for reptiles and I'm thinking farm animals, it's hard to choose just one haha. I can see myself being waaaay more into exotics though.


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