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  • 07-15-2014, 11:48 PM
    Gary P
    Local Pet Store Not Taking Care of Their Snakes
    It is a chain pet store, not Petco or Petsmart, but I don't want to mention it right off.

    I buy my feeders there, and look at their reptile section every now and then to check on them. There are several Reptiles there (mostly snakes) that have inadequate enclosure upkeep. Only half their tanks have any gauges in them what-so-ever. And its too hot and not humid enough in most of the enclosures. Also, many of the tanks only have a red light as a heat source and the light in the room is always off and no outside light can reach them, so to them, they are always living in very dim lighting, day or night.

    There are few to none hides in any of the tanks, so they are always exposed. One of the adult BP's that has been there for years, has scars all over him. One of the BP's tanks had a completely dried up water bowl and extremely low humidity. The red tail boa's water dish had poop in it, as did several others. Several tanks had poop and several sheds in them and have obviously not been cleaned in months. The red tail was also in a very small cage for his large size. One of the BP's was soaking in his water dish (and likely in his own poo) which I have read on hear could be a sign of mites or inadequate humidity.

    I feel like I need to do something for them :( such a shame they have to live like that. Several of the normals have been there a long time because of their ridiculous pricing for just a normal ball. 70 plus dollars. 200 for the one that has been there for years, he comes with his cage and lamps, if I had the money, I would save him from his dreadful life, but I don't :(.

    What can I do? The employees there seem to hate their jobs (obviously, since they are't DOING their jobs).
  • 07-16-2014, 12:23 AM
    alan12013
    Write to the regional manager. Say that you will take pictures and do a write up letting people know. Make a write up with pictures and let every one know. 70 dollars is a bit high but petco and petsmart have them at 90 all the time and drop them to 44 on sales. They wouldn't have to charge so much if they bought from local breeders...
  • 07-16-2014, 12:50 AM
    Druzy
    This really saddens me. I too have also experience this with some local shops in my area. I've actually took it upon myself to speak respectfully to owners/management and no issues were resolved. Now I refuse to purchase anything from these shops even feeders! If they can display there animals in such poor condition imagine how the feeders are cared for. My reptiles eat the best quality. Yes frozen Rats too.
  • 07-16-2014, 01:45 AM
    KMG
    Its a common issue. This is what I expierenced once.

    http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ad-Petco-Story
  • 07-16-2014, 08:03 AM
    ballpython45
    Re: Local Pet Store Not Taking Care of Their Snakes
    I too have had thay problem, my friend's bp had some issues and had a huge scar going through her belly
  • 07-16-2014, 08:28 AM
    bcr229
    Re: Local Pet Store Not Taking Care of Their Snakes
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gary P View Post
    if I had the money, I would save him from his dreadful life, but I don't :(.

    Please don't. If you do the animal will simply be replaced with another one. The only way any retailer will stop keeping animals incorrectly is when doing so adversely affects their bottom line. If you buy that animal then you are rewarding the store.

    Quote:

    What can I do? The employees there seem to hate their jobs (obviously, since they are't DOING their jobs).
    - Go back and take pictures of the conditions of the enclosures and snakes.
    - Write to the management to let them know that due to the horrid conditions you found, you not only would never purchase an animal from them, but you will no longer set foot in their shop and will refer people elsewhere for their pet-related purchases. Include the pictures.
    - Find a different source for feeders.
    - Leave negative reviews on Yelp, Manta, Google, etc.
  • 07-16-2014, 09:57 AM
    alan12013
    As a business owner myself I would say that is a good idea ^^^ Write to management and if not corrected THE NEXT DAY (which it wont be) then you need to go on YELP and all the other online sites. I am in a location where online advertising doesn't effect me all that much but I know with out a doubt that a few bad YELP reviews can lose a company or store a good deal of business.
  • 07-16-2014, 11:27 AM
    CORBIN911
    With as horrid condition's as that as you say, You could even threaten PETA id beg to say. Non drinkable water, or dried up water, Scars (Most pets stores refuse to feed live aswell, which they obv are doing)

    Hell if you actually feel like helping you most likly could say Pay me and ill look after them =P

    I know the owner of a local petvalue and my freind worked there, but i always enjoy the reptiles that i hate owning because of crickets.. Beardies, trantuals, Waterdragons, Chameloens, Geckos And the common cornsnakes/tree boas they seldom get. Id go in and "Tame" them as she said take them out play with em, They even had me come a few times to pack up the crazy ones like treeboas, or an angry fat tailed gecko that liked me LOL. She started giving me 50$ a week because i help there so often! So i get to play with critters and not have to pay for there upkeep! and i get paid!!! (Plus she helps me sell the normal off spring of my BP's)
  • 07-16-2014, 04:35 PM
    BPavery
    Re: Local Pet Store Not Taking Care of Their Snakes
    I complained a lot to a local Petsmart about them not caring for their reptiles correctly, and they improved! A lot! Complaints do work sometimes, so do not hesitate to do so. :)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • 07-16-2014, 04:52 PM
    Pythonfriend
    go in, take some pictures or maybe cellphone video, and expose them.

    only do this if you know what you are doing. basically you need to make sure there wont be legal consequences. but if it works out, its really satisfying.

    otherwise, just complain at different levels. complain locally, if they have a support line call there to get an email adress or something, then later call again to complain, and then complain in email to the higher-level management where you can get an email adress somewhere. be very specific.

    tell the truth, dont exagerrate, and then you should be safe from consequences if you do name and shame them.
  • 07-16-2014, 05:05 PM
    OhhWatALoser
    Re: Local Pet Store Not Taking Care of Their Snakes
    If you are going to write something, lets get some things set straight,

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gary P View Post
    Only half their tanks have any gauges in them what-so-ever.

    Gauges are unnecessary, one temp gun can read any heat source in the store and humidity can be seen by just looking at the enclosure. I'm not saying they have the enclosures set up correctly, just saying gauges are nothing to mention.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gary P View Post
    Also, many of the tanks only have a red light as a heat source and the light in the room is always off and no outside light can reach them, so to them, they are always living in very dim lighting, day or night.

    There's nothing wrong with this?

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gary P View Post
    There are few to none hides in any of the tanks, so they are always exposed.

    Why the heck would you have hides unless necessary? Are the snakes not eating? Are they suffering health wise from it? It's a store, a bunch of tanks with the appearance of no animals doesn't sell many animals.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gary P View Post
    One of the BP's was soaking in his water dish (and likely in his own poo) which I have read on hear could be a sign of mites or inadequate humidity.

    I also hear they just do that.... but nice job working assumptions of poo soaking and mites in there?

    You might be angry and the store might be a piece of crap, but at least have valid points to bring up.
  • 07-16-2014, 05:06 PM
    Navaro
    Personally I'd walk in and ask to speak to the manager. Let him know you aren't impressed, and if you need to complain higher you will. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and see if they improve.

    You need to be careful about taking photographs ect, as that can be a breach depending on the chain / regulations. You don't want to get into hot water yourself.

    Be persistent, well spoken, but direct. You have every right to complain, and good on you for doing so. Kudos.
  • 07-16-2014, 05:11 PM
    OhhWatALoser
    Re: Local Pet Store Not Taking Care of Their Snakes
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Navaro View Post
    You need to be careful about taking photographs ect, as that can be a breach depending on the chain / regulations. You don't want to get into hot water yourself.

    For unrelated things, I have always been told, unless specifically posted, told to stop, or in an area with the expectation of privacy (bathroom, your own house, ect.), you can take pictures, even in a business.
  • 07-16-2014, 06:36 PM
    Kat_Dog
    Re: Local Pet Store Not Taking Care of Their Snakes
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser View Post
    For unrelated things, I have always been told, unless specifically posted, told to stop, or in an area with the expectation of privacy (bathroom, your own house, ect.), you can take pictures, even in a business.

    This is true, the only parts of an open store you wouldn't be able to legally take pictures of would be restrooms, changing rooms, and rooms marked "employees only". Pictures of animals or items on display are completely legal to photograph even if there is a sign that says "no photography" as that is subjective expectation of privacy and not supported by the law. The worst that could happen is it could get you banned from the store.
    This is all assuming we are talking about a store in the US, I'm not familiar with the laws of other countries.


    Anyhow, it's not often that reporting to the authorities will mean action will be taken, so your first course of action would be to talk to the manager. Inform him of the situation and let him know that if you don't see improvement in the next few weeks, you will be talking to corporate.


    Leaving negative online reviews may help, but when people go to a store, they often don't look at reviews online.
  • 07-16-2014, 06:43 PM
    Navaro
    Re: Local Pet Store Not Taking Care of Their Snakes
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser View Post
    For unrelated things, I have always been told, unless specifically posted, told to stop, or in an area with the expectation of privacy (bathroom, your own house, ect.), you can take pictures, even in a business.


    Oh I agree. Just figured it was worth mentioning. It wouldn't be the first 'pet store' I've heard of that has a sign up saying no photographs / pictures.
  • 07-16-2014, 08:35 PM
    Venoshock
    My local Petco is actually very good with their animals. The managers who take care of the animals are very well informed about all of the species they stock, even the reptiles. I haven't had a problem with them at all.

    It's our local Petsmart that I've had the most trouble with. I can't tell you how many reptiles I've seen with severe health issues there. They currently have a very skinny Pinstripe Ball Python that is absolutely teeming with mites, and it is caged with a Pastel who probably shares them. There's also mold in the substrate and its very apparent that they don't clean the cage often, if at all.

    I actually remember when they first got it and it was so pretty I just had to hold it. I asked the manager and he was like, "are you sure?? It will bite you!!" and I was like ok??? I don't mind being bitten either way but?? Just

    I try not to go there anymore because it just makes me sad.
  • 07-16-2014, 10:56 PM
    Gary P
    Re: Local Pet Store Not Taking Care of Their Snakes
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser View Post
    If you are going to write something, lets get some things set straight,



    Gauges are unnecessary, one temp gun can read any heat source in the store and humidity can be seen by just looking at the enclosure. I'm not saying they have the enclosures set up correctly, just saying gauges are nothing to mention.



    There's nothing wrong with this?



    Why the heck would you have hides unless necessary? Are the snakes not eating? Are they suffering health wise from it? It's a store, a bunch of tanks with the appearance of no animals doesn't sell many animals.



    I also hear they just do that.... but nice job working assumptions of poo soaking and mites in there?

    You might be angry and the store might be a piece of crap, but at least have valid points to bring up.

    Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today didn't they? My post was asking for help on what I could do, I didn't ask for an editor to break down and disagree with everything I wrote. (which is never helpful, ever, in the history of any forum)

    Am I not aloud to make assumptions? Something wrong with that? I wasn't trying to hide the fact that they WERE assumptions, I used the word "could" did I not? Can you read?

    As mentioned in the care sheet ON THIS WEBSITE, hides are required for ball pythons to feel secure and less stressed... Sooo you just contradicted information that is part of the forum that you are a senior member of... lol.

    I understand a heat gun could be used for temps, that is a valid point. Also pointed out (and shrugged off) by yourself is the fact that humidity levels can not be checked that way. Humidity is just as important as temperature. Not sure how you can tell the humidity "by just looking" but whatever.

    Also mentioned in the care sheet is the importance that the snakes have a regular night and day schedule. Not be in a room where a light is constantly being flicked on and off.

    Poison like you doesn't need to be on this forum. Get out.
  • 07-16-2014, 11:00 PM
    Gary P
    Update
    Went back today to confront them on their reptile upkeep and I was happily surprised that they cleaned up most of the tanks and they all had new water and the light was on this time.

    I'll keep my eye on them though, probably just a coincidence that everything was cleaned today. They definitely should do it more often. Thanks for the help and the positive feedback :).
  • 07-17-2014, 12:16 AM
    BiggBaddWolf
    I will have to agree Ohwat does bring up some good points too
  • 07-17-2014, 12:19 AM
    BiggBaddWolf
    We all know how bad pet stores can be. I have heard thousands of stories, so I just filed this under "another bad pet store" category
  • 07-17-2014, 12:59 AM
    vangarret2000
    Re: Local Pet Store Not Taking Care of Their Snakes
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gary P View Post
    if I had the money, I would save him from his dreadful life, but I don't :(.).

    Your heart is in the right place but buying it is the worst thing you could do. If a store isn't taking care of their animals and people are buying them then they have no reason to give proper care. A stores main concern is profit. The best way to deal with it is not give them money. Either an animal will die without proper care or sit on the shelf and cost them money instead of making them any. Sad for the animals but that is what it takes for most stores to take notice. People feeling sorry for the animals and buying them is only gonna hurt then next animal the store brings in to replace it.
  • 07-17-2014, 05:11 AM
    OhhWatALoser
    Re: Local Pet Store Not Taking Care of Their Snakes
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gary P View Post
    Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today didn't they? My post was asking for help on what I could do, I didn't ask for an editor to break down and disagree with everything I wrote. (which is never helpful, ever, in the history of any forum)

    Am I not aloud to make assumptions? Something wrong with that? I wasn't trying to hide the fact that they WERE assumptions, I used the word "could" did I not? Can you read?

    As mentioned in the care sheet ON THIS WEBSITE, hides are required for ball pythons to feel secure and less stressed... Sooo you just contradicted information that is part of the forum that you are a senior member of... lol.

    I understand a heat gun could be used for temps, that is a valid point. Also pointed out (and shrugged off) by yourself is the fact that humidity levels can not be checked that way. Humidity is just as important as temperature. Not sure how you can tell the humidity "by just looking" but whatever.

    Also mentioned in the care sheet is the importance that the snakes have a regular night and day schedule. Not be in a room where a light is constantly being flicked on and off.

    Poison like you doesn't need to be on this forum. Get out.

    If you are going to confront a store about their keeping practices, you better actually have some valid points. All I broke down was the invalid points, as you can see I left out other things you brought up that are completely valid imo. The manager is probably going to roll his eyes at the invalid points are not take you seriously. BTW breaking down the post makes sure you know exacting what I am referring to, so yes it is helpful. But if you prefer one big quote, there you go.

    No, you cannot make assumption when attacking a something. Trying to imply other things based off of completely normal activity makes you sound very uneducated and unqualified to make any comments on any keeping practices. I thought you wanted to be taken seriously and actually help these animals?

    I see that hides are suggested, nothing about required. They are also under the section of "why won't my snake eat" which I believe I specially brought up. Explain my contradiction?

    Are you not able to tell the difference between normal substrate, wet substrate, or dry substrate? I see the caresheet does actually disagree with me on this one, which I have no problem arguing that the suggested 10% window they offer is ridiculous, as would many other keepers. I would like someone to point out something the suggest they need day/night cycle, there are many keeping practices which prove differently. Also the care sheet seem to put more stress on excessive lighting.

    The caresheet intent is to help out the new person and make it easy as possible on them. My experience along with many others experience can show it is not the only way to do things. But if that is poison, guess I'll get out.
  • 07-17-2014, 09:40 AM
    Pythonfriend
    so, basically what OWAL is saying is: focus on the issues that are completely clear and obvious and not up for debate.

    as in, dried-up water bowls, feces in the enclosure, shed in the enclosure, and feces in water bowls are completely clear.

    but a BP soaking or when the temperature probes are not visible or not there, its not clear. sure, it could imply mites, it could imply that the temperatures are off, but its not necessarily true. the BP could just be soaking for fun and they could have a setup that works just fine and holds the right temperatures with dimmers.

    now it once again becomes clear when you actually see some mites, or when you walk in there with a temp gun and take actual temperature readings.

    i have to say i agree with OWAL, when making complaints and asking them to improve their husbandry, stick to the things that are really clear and not negotiable. dried up water bowls, old sheds, old feces, bad smell, thats unacceptable and there is no way to talk your way out of it.


    i also agree with vangarett2000: dont buy animals from pet shops that dont properly care about them. if you buy out of mercy, its not a rescue, because you are giving them a financial reward and make them put the next animal into the same bad situation. its only a rescue when you get a snake out of a bad situation, and you get it for free or at a big discount, and no new animal will replace it.
  • 07-17-2014, 12:08 PM
    CORBIN911
    Re: Local Pet Store Not Taking Care of Their Snakes
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gary P View Post
    Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today didn't they? My post was asking for help on what I could do, I didn't ask for an editor to break down and disagree with everything I wrote. (which is never helpful, ever, in the history of any forum)

    Am I not aloud to make assumptions? Something wrong with that? I wasn't trying to hide the fact that they WERE assumptions, I used the word "could" did I not? Can you read?

    As mentioned in the care sheet ON THIS WEBSITE, hides are required for ball pythons to feel secure and less stressed... Sooo you just contradicted information that is part of the forum that you are a senior member of... lol.

    I understand a heat gun could be used for temps, that is a valid point. Also pointed out (and shrugged off) by yourself is the fact that humidity levels can not be checked that way. Humidity is just as important as temperature. Not sure how you can tell the humidity "by just looking" but whatever.

    Also mentioned in the care sheet is the importance that the snakes have a regular night and day schedule. Not be in a room where a light is constantly being flicked on and off.

    Poison like you doesn't need to be on this forum. Get out.

    Attacking someone else is just as poisonous..

    1) Hides wont help the constant Glass tapping, Most have the ugly exoterra half wood hides anyways

    2) Red lights "dont show to snakes" as some say so they use this as many others with tanks do. Store lights will shin through tank giving them light, then at night when they close lights dim or turn off.

    3) Snakes soak, BUT ALL pet stores dont give PERFECT husbandry its common, since snakes usually dont last too,too long, They often give a hotspot (which in little tank is enitre things)

    4)I dont have any gauges, Does this mean I Should be called a bad owner?? I don't judge my humidity in ANY of my tubs from my Paper substrate to Coco husk ones.... Aslong as snakes have a decent shed and or amazing shed. And have no eye dimples or other sighns of dehydration, its fine! Iv yet to have 1 bad shed, and have never used those temp/humidty gauges, they are garbage and wrong anyways.

    5) There heat source is a red light its very hard to gauge, for them and change, unless they have on rheostat, so usually the heat stays at X degrees for snake...


    No where am i arguing with you, but you listed many things that are very common, and the usually for big chain pet stores... As for the no water that is unacceptable yes, As for the fecal in water or snake in water this is common.. Specially when there is no heat gradient, due to the small size of there housing.

    They have over 20-30 species per small area, So they use the very basic to provide moderate commendation for these animals.. They arn't a Reptile shot, they have all types of animals, most employees couldnt tell you the sex of the animals unless there Genitals are hanging out right in front of there face. Again this is common.

    IF you didnt come here for advice or w.e you mentioned then what did you make this thread for? The mass of us to see horrible housing for snakes? For us to say Wow rest your soul in heaven you "WANT TO HELP" but don't actually talk to someone first before writing this?


    Im overall confused of the reason for this post. And then attacking someone giving you general advice saying poison. I mean common, lets be serious here, 95% of us know PET STORE REPTILES are never maintained like they should be! I mean hey in which world is a normal 80g male, (Sold as female or unknown) worth the $139.95 But for $119.99 IF you have pet perks! YAY:gj: Or paying over 250$ For a fish tank and heat pad, (and bunch of crappy gauges and hides)
    Again.. petstores... Stay away from there overprices, ridiculous "crap" they sell. I mean Best substrate offered for my BP was a White Sand i was told "as a idiot buyer while gf was buying chinchilla food" Lets be real here, They know nothing.
  • 07-27-2014, 04:04 PM
    I-KandyReptiles
    Re: Local Pet Store Not Taking Care of Their Snakes
    Telling a long time forum user to get out usually doesn't leave a good impression.

    You posted this here asking for help, and he gave you help. Just because it's not what you want to hear doesn't make it bad advice.

    I know some would suggest calling fish and wildlife or the humane society. Although they usually consider a reptile to be fine if it has food and water.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • 07-28-2014, 07:14 PM
    jasonmcgilvrey83
    I know the feeling. It horrible to see animals like that. Write a letter to the manager with pics. That's what I had to do. I went into a petco by my house to get new hides for my bps and stopped by the reptile section and saw three dead red tail boas in a cage with 9 more cramped in a small cage. I told one of the workers about the dead snakes and all he did was take them out and throw them in the trash. I came back three days later for substrate and saw two more dead one. I asked to see the manager but he wasn't there. I told them that the rtbs are sick and need a vet. This is the second time in a week that I have seen dead snakes in there and told him the cage they have them in is to small for how many they have in there. The person I talked to was clueless about snakes. I took pics, a video, and wrote a letter to the management and told them I will make sure the words spread about their store and how they treat their animals. I never went back to that store.
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