Is It Possible To Make a Profit in 4 Years?

Is it possible to make a profit in only four years with a couple males and a few females?


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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::r ofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

No

I've looked into this... Short answer is that unless you are smarter than the smartest person I've ever met I would say no. I'm sure that there is some rainmaker person out there that could learn all the morphs in a sitting and then pick the perfect pairs based off of a billion variables and make a profit mega fast.

I haven't bred yet but I have spent some time crunching numbers. I've also researched a lot about snakes lately and the one thing that I seem to keep learning is how much more there is to learn. So there is also the learning aspect of it from the business side and from the actual snake expertise side of it. You need very good knowledge in both areas and that doesn't come over night and for some it will never come because of any number of reasons.

Define what you mean by profit also because some people could look at it different. If you tally every penny spent from day one until the day that your books are in the green then at a normal pace assuming you're not going at this like Donald Trump then year 4 would be where the curve starts to level out and maybe tip upwards (but I doubt it) but still in the red. That question actually hurts my brain so if you could elaborate more that would help. What male and what females are we talking about? Are you asking using the model 2 males and 4 females then which snakes would make the most ROI and how long would it take? What if one gets sick? What if the female lays duds? What if you get bad luck and hatch all normals? What if the quality isn't good and you can only sell locally on craigslist? Like I said too many variables and I'd still say no.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

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No

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Ok :(


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There are too many variables but with your plan outline ...no

With careful planning and a solid business plan, you can break even...

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Originally Posted by alan12013

I've looked into this... Short answer is that unless you are smarter than the smartest person I've ever met I would say no. I'm sure that there is some rainmaker person out there that could learn all the morphs in a sitting and then pick the perfect pairs based off of a billion variables and make a profit mega fast.

I haven't bred yet but I have spent some time crunching numbers. I've also researched a lot about snakes lately and the one thing that I seem to keep learning is how much more there is to learn. So there is also the learning aspect of it from the business side and from the actual snake expertise side of it. You need very good knowledge in both areas and that doesn't come over night and for some it will never come because of any number of reasons.

Define what you mean by profit also because some people could look at it different. If you tally every penny spent from day one until the day that your books are in the green then at a normal pace assuming you're not going at this like Donald Trump then year 4 would be where the curve starts to level out and maybe tip upwards (but I doubt it) but still in the red. That question actually hurts my brain so if you could elaborate more that would help. What male and what females are we talking about? Are you asking using the model 2 males and 4 females then which snakes would make the most ROI and how long would it take? What if one gets sick? What if the female lays duds? What if you get bad luck and hatch all normals? What if the quality isn't good and you can only sell locally on craigslist? Like I said too many variables and I'd still say no.

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So I was thinking about getting two or three multi gene males (Lesser Bee, Pewter, BEL, Lemonblast) and breeding them to some mature single gene females that would produce some unique morphs that aren't produced often. I guess my question is, can I make a profit (in two years when males mature) off of about eight to ten clutches? I know there would be problems like you mentioned, but is it possible? The reason for being limited to four years is, in four years, future circumstances will keep me from breeding until about two years later. Thanks for your help!


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Originally Posted by ElliotNess

There are too many variables but with your plan outline ...no

With careful planning and a solid business plan, you can break even...

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That would be great if I could break even, because the real reason I want to breed is for fun. I'm fine with a hobby that pays for itself! :)


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Also, alan12013, by profit I don't mean enough money to live off of. I just want to do something fun and make a few bucks off of it.


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Originally Posted by BPavery

So I was thinking about getting two or three multi gene males (Lesser Bee, Pewter, BEL, Lemonblast) and breeding them to some mature single gene females that would produce some unique morphs that aren't produced often. I guess my question is, can I make a profit (in two years when males mature) off of about eight to ten clutches? I know there would be problems like you mentioned, but is it possible? The reason for being limited to four years is, in four years, future circumstances will keep me from breeding until about two years later. Thanks for your help!

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You would then be producing base morphs that everyone already produces as fallout to trying to produce multigenes.
This also doesn't include the vast amounts of normal you would produce and take a loss on.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

You would then be producing base morphs that everyone already produces as fallout to trying to produce multigenes.
This also doesn't include the vast amounts of normal you would produce and take a loss on.

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On top of this... If you breed and sell morphs you can get away with selling very common morphs like the bumble bee that are not high quality at all locally if your market can handle 200-300 dollar price tags. Trying to sell a more rare morph you will be selling to a different audience and they will actually care about quality so assume you did buy quality to start with... after calculating for SOME of the variables you still would not come close to a profit but you would get some nice cash flow back from your hobby.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

You would then be producing base morphs that everyone already produces as fallout to trying to produce multigenes.
This also doesn't include the vast amounts of normal you would produce and take a loss on.

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That's true. I don't want to saturate the base morph market even more. It would be great to breed a new morph like bamboo, but I don't have the money for more expensive morphs right now. That's why I made the thread about breeding other species that are just starting to become more popular. I could buy some cheaper snakes that produce more hatchlings that are popular enough to sell, but not in an over-saturated market.


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Originally Posted by alan12013

On top of this... If you breed and sell morphs you can get away with selling very common morphs like the bumble bee that are not high quality at all locally if your market can handle 200-300 dollar price tags. Trying to sell a more rare morph you will be selling to a different audience and they will actually care about quality so assume you did buy quality to start with... after calculating for SOME of the variables you still would not come close to a profit but you would get some nice cash flow back from your hobby.

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Cash flow is something I don't want because I would still be slowly losing money. But you're right, it would be better than nothing because it is just a hobby. There's not many hobbies that give you cash flow.


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Biz Year 1: Buy females and their racks, "stuff" (hides, water bowls, feeding tongs, thermometer, etc) and "consumables" (feeders, paper towels, F10, mite sprays, etc). Show loss.
Biz Year 2: Buy males and their rack, their "stuff", and consumables. Show loss.
Biz Year 3: Buy/build incubator and hatchling rack, consumables, and replacement "stuff" if something breaks. Show loss.
Biz Year 4: IN THEORY you could show a profit if the sale of babies > expense of consumables, assuming 1) you don't buy more "stuff", and 2) you don't have any vet bills. It is very unlikely that the sales you make this year will offset the losses from year 1 through year 4.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Biz Year 1: Buy females and their racks, "stuff" (hides, water bowls, feeding tongs, thermometer, etc) and "consumables" (feeders, paper towels, F10, mite sprays, etc). Show loss.
Biz Year 2: Buy males and their rack, their "stuff", and consumables. Show loss.
Biz Year 3: Buy/build incubator and hatchling rack, consumables, and replacement "stuff" if something breaks. Show loss.
Biz Year 4: IN THEORY you could show a profit if the sale of babies > expense of consumables, assuming 1) you don't buy more "stuff", and 2) you don't have any vet bills. It is very unlikely that the sales you make this year will offset the losses from year 1 through year 4.

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This is very helpful. I'm starting to realize the HUGE amount of costs in Ball Python breeding. Thank you.


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FWIW I run a small business with my husband. I would never turn my snake breeding hobby into a real business, or I would grow to hate it. Not the breeding part, but the dealing with the business part. So, I make sure that I can show that my expenses are always more than my income, even if only by a dollar each year.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

FWIW I run a small business with my husband. I would never turn my snake breeding hobby into a real business, or I would grow to hate it. Not the breeding part, but the dealing with the business part. So, I make sure that I can show that my expenses are always more than my income, even if only by a dollar each year.

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Sounds like I need to start buying snakes from you in December. ;)

If you look at any hobby in hopes to make money, it is no longer a hobby. You have to be in it for the love of it.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Sounds like I need to start buying snakes from you in December. ;)

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It's a "Never Going Into Business" Sale :)

Yes you can make money in less then four years? In fact you could do it in two seasons. You'd need to get into a new mutation when it's sitting around 40-50k. You would need to have an ultrasound and know how to use it. A backup male in the 20k range. 40 females or so. Innate breeding of ball python knowledge. The reason why you'd fail wouldn't be due to the market but due to a lack of experience and investment ability. Big name breeders can start with brand new projects and kill it big with 5-10x ROI in one season. But they have years of experience and the ability to time their investments correctly.

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Originally Posted by OctagonGecko729

Yes you can make money in less then four years? In fact you could do it in two seasons. You'd need to get into a new mutation when it's sitting around 40-50k. You would need to have an ultrasound and know how to use it. A backup male in the 20k range. 40 females or so. Innate breeding of ball python knowledge. The reason why you'd fail wouldn't be due to the market but due to a lack of experience and investment ability. Big name breeders can start with brand new projects and kill it big with 5-10x ROI in one season. But they have years of experience and the ability to time their investments correctly.

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What about banana? Is it possible to make a profit on breeding them. They are a good price, but still new and in high demand.


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Originally Posted by BPavery

What about banana? Is it possible to make a profit on breeding them. They are a good price, but still new and in high demand.

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You also have to look at trends..................... whats hot this season might not be next season.
There are too many variables.
You best bet just like everyone else is to start out with a 1.2 or 1.3 and see if you can handle that first.
Breed something you like and want because you just might get stuck with them.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

You also have to look at trends..................... whats hot this season might not be next season.
There are too many variables.
You best bet just like everyone else is to start out with a 1.2 or 1.3 and see if you can handle that first.
Breed something you like and want because you just might get stuck with them.

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I'll probably do that. That way I can get some experience and see if I really like doing it. Then if I do like it, I can breed on a larger scale later on. Thank you!


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You will need know the market you are investing in, this also means you will need to make a sizeable investment. Low end single gene females and low end two gene males will not cut it.

I starting making a profit by year 3 so it is possible.

I don't see why you couldn't. I feel like if you buy 1.1 visual pieds for around 1,200 then you will get 100% pied babies and you would at least be able to break even with your first clutch.

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Originally Posted by Bryant493

I don't see why you couldn't. I feel like if you buy 1.1 visual pieds for around 1,200 then you will get 100% pied babies and you would at least be able to break even with your first clutch.

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You wont get an adult female and male for that price.
you are still looking at two to three years to grow out and be ready to breed.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

You wont get an adult female and male for that price.
you are still looking at two to three years to grow out and be ready to breed.

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^this^

Or it could take 5 or 6 years before the female lays a clutch, the first clutch could be all slugs, or you could have 2 or 3 eggs (all males).

A little example here my female pied produced her first clutch at 4 years of age, 5 slugs, 1 good egg.

People thinking putting one snake with another = $$$ in the bank need to think again those are animals and things can happen, if it was that easy and always working out the way people want to, a lot more people would make a profit, instead a lot of people think they can and then 2 or 3 years later when they don't because not everything always go as planned they will sell off their entire collection (tons of ads like those online)

Again it is possible but the majority of people are in the red for a few years before even breaking even let alone make a profit.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

^this^

Or it could take 5 or 6 years before the female lays a clutch, the first clutch could be all slugs, or you could have 2 or 3 eggs (all males).

A little example here my female pied produced her first clutch at 4 years of age, 5 slugs, 1 good egg.

People thinking putting one snake with another = $$$ in the bank need to think again those are animals and things can happen, if it was that easy and always working out the way people want to, a lot more people would make a profit, instead a lot of people think they can and then 2 or 3 years later when they don't because not everything always go as planned they will sell off their entire collection (tons of ads like those online)

Again it is possible but the majority of people are in the red for a few years before even breaking even let alone make a profit.

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Well yes, this was assuming everything went fine. He is just asking if it is possible and it is BUT everything would have to go perfect like you said.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::r ofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

No

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This is the most honest answer yet.
lmao!!!
A small percentage might but most don't ever see a profit
because by the four year mark their gone.

I started investing heavily in 2011. I'm still in the red but expect by the end of 2015 to be in the black by a decent amount.

It's not easy. Right now I'm spending about 15-20 hours a week taking care of 200 animals. Juggling a full time job and a family along with the snakes is exhausting but working with the animals is so rewarding that it's worth it. Don't get into this thinking it's easy money. A few get lucky but most of us have to put a lot of blood, sweat and tears and years to make our businesses successful.

I kick my self in the a** for buying a stupid cafe when I had tons of money. I look at the collection I could have put together and it just blows my mind. Maybe it happened for a reason and I'll respect it more for starting so slow at a reptile breeding business. I'm miserable making soups, cup cakes, scones, and paninis all day and then I come home and get to work with the animals which is actually fun for me. I have no clue how you manage several hundred by yourself on top of everything else! It is not easy to make sure they all eat and drink, document it all, check weights, clean cages, do research for anything that pops up. It's non stop even for me and I'm not even a fraction of where you are. I'm not there yet as far as having a breeding business in place but I will eventually no doubt in my mind. If you don't love putting in all the work, time and effort then you will be miserable and in this business the animals are the ones who suffer the most in that situation.

Any one want to buy a cafe in oregon???

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Originally Posted by CapeFearConstrictors

I started investing heavily in 2011. I'm still in the red but expect by the end of 2015 to be in the black by a decent amount.

It's not easy. Right now I'm spending about 15-20 hours a week taking care of 200 animals. Juggling a full time job and a family along with the snakes is exhausting but working with the animals is so rewarding that it's worth it. Don't get into this thinking it's easy money. A few get lucky but most of us have to put a lot of blood, sweat and tears and years to make our businesses successful.

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You must never sit down during the day! I guess I would have to go all out if I wanted to really make a business. Breeding a few snakes is just a hobby and that's what I want do. I was hoping to make a little money, but that's okay because I'll be doing what I love and I don't need to make money off of it. Thanks for the help! Also, I love your Youtube videos!




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Without disclosing numbers, I'm living/breathing proof you can profit quite a bit in less than 4 years.

I wouldn't say it's easy, but you can be as great as you want to be. I wouldn't let anyone tell you otherwise.

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

Without disclosing numbers, I'm living/breathing proof you can profit quite a bit in less than 4 years.

I wouldn't say it's easy, but you can be as great as you want to be. I wouldn't let anyone tell you otherwise.

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Yeah, most definitely. It amazes me the amount of negativity that comes up when people mention making money in BP's.

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Originally Posted by wideglide

Yeah, most definitely. It amazes me the amount of negativity that comes up when people mention making money in BP's.

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Its not negativity, its the truth.
It depends where you start in the game.
Starting like most people in the real world with single gene and normal its not easy.
Now there are several breeders that I know that have bought their way into the game, if you can drop a huge amount of cash on what is rare and hot this year then yeas it is possible BUT I am not the type of guy to blow smoke up peoples butt.
This is not the get rich quick hobby unless you were there to start with.

3rd season and we're in the black already.

Depends on how you set yourself up for the road ahead that will help determine how soon you can be profitable. You will probably have to take some calculated risks to get there.

It's a saturated market. You have to have a plan to differentiate yourself. Right now it's akin to entering the TV or soft drink market space. If you are not getting in on a brand new cutting edge project, what is your hook?

Also I notice some people going all in and buying like it's 5-6 years ago, for example there is this one woman I notice when I check the auction sites and she is buying single gene Pastels and Pinstripes in the 100-200 gram range etc. in quantity...stuff like that.

As a buyer and hobbiest, I don't care if I ever make a penny, I love snakes, I love morph breeding. I want to buy from a seller that clearly and concisely represents their animals with current photos and has an up to date organized listing of available animals, I've called BIG breeders with animals listed on their site that sold months ago, big turn off. Also I am only buying from breeders that list either shipped prices or a reasonable flat rate shipping price that is easy to find on the site.

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Originally Posted by wideglide

Yeah, most definitely. It amazes me the amount of negativity that comes up when people mention making money in BP's.

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Seems like you are mistaken negativity and fact, I myself said it was possible to do so in 4 years (Even though I do not do this for a living I do make a profit each year)

Now answers were based on the specific questions

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Originally Posted by BPavery

Is it possible to make a profit in only four years with a couple males and a few females?

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Originally Posted by BPavery

So I was thinking about getting two or three multi gene males (Lesser Bee, Pewter, BEL, Lemonblast) and breeding them to some mature single gene females

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If you know the market (flooded with single and lower double genes animals) and you breed Ball Pythons then you should know that making a profit with those specific animals by the time something hatches out and after deducting all the cost will just not happen.

To make a profit you need to make a sizeable investment and chose animals wisely.

It costs no more to house a $20000 BP than it does a $200 BP. There is a point where everything you breed will pretty much be profit. Figure that out and go from there. Not rocket science.

Brant, thank you for your post of inspiration. I see this attitude of impossibility in everything from ball python breeding to corporate promotions. Some people can DO things and some don't...

If you can't make a profit from breeding your reptiles after 4 years, you are doing everything wrong.

while I am working starting a business with this, I don't see myself making any kind of profit for about 5 years, most of the money made selling babies after the first couple years I expect to be going to care for the animals and investing into some other mid-range projects that catch my eye. I also don't really expect to be able to jump on the 40-50k investment projects until maybe year 7 or 8. I am trying to be realistic as possible with myself mostly because when it comes down to it, it's a labor of love. Without passion and persistence, the ones who are in it to make a quick dollar fade out fast.

Any money I make at all is profit to me, but I have a bit of a wierd perspective on it. I'm only using money that I would have thrown away on my other hobby anyway, so getting any of it back is like profit to me. Plus you have to be creative on spending. I build all my own racks, make hides from butter tubs and the like, breed my own feeders, and so on. Can a profit be made? Sure if you can throw money at the problem. If not you'll have a long hard road.