Queen bee question

What's you opinion of quality with animals such as this queen bee? I am hoping to work with pastels, lesser and spider animals primarily at first and this is a morph that I would love to produce eventually or maybe even purchase a quality one for my second year. I am planning on going to an expo next month so I need to start training my eye regarding quality. This particular one is actually for sale right now but I realized looking at it I couldn't tell the quality like I could with a pastel or a spider. If the picture doesn't attachI will try later as my computer is acting up. The pic Is in my gallary

I took a look at the pic. It's a bad pic, so this may not be the case, but in my opinion that is not a high quality queen bee.

In my mind a high quality lesser and a high quality spider are both very reduced pattern - no spots. Pastels generally come with spots, so many of the queen bees you see look like the one you pictured. In my opinion, here's the description of a really nice queen bee:

-Reduced pattern, little to no spots
-Golden yellow on the sides - remember, orange turns brown/grey on pastels but yellow holds
-Sort of a combination of 1 and 2, they should have a very 'soft' look about them
-Nice flames coming up the sides

Just an opinion - others may prefer them different.

Before you commit to breeding spiders, be aware that they carry genetic flaws that can sometimes be fatal or require euthanization. It's called 'wobble' and most spiders have it to some degree. Even those that don't show ANY signs of wobble still carry these genetic flaws and they can be passed on to their offspring.

Just bought a spider tell me if he looks good new to spiders have a ghost and phantom


http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/11/aputehu8.jpg

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Originally Posted by greco

Before you commit to breeding spiders, be aware that they carry genetic flaws that can sometimes be fatal or require euthanization.

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care to share a source for this information?

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Originally Posted by greco

be aware that they carry genetic flaws that can sometimes be fatal or require euthanization.

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Please kindly cite 1 example of this being fatal or requiring euthanasia before spreading misinformation.

From various sources andfrom Brian at BHB wobble MIGHT be able to be line bred out. I actually couldn't find any information on how heritable it is besides what I just mentioned so that's probably why OWAL was asking for a reference. Even if you do breed them I don't think that the neurological disorder causes death and I'm not aware of any fatal breeding with spiders.

Zach, from what I would imagine your spider looks like a spider... The sides are dirty and people usually prefer them to be more of a white color. The pattern is ok too. I dont like spiders with straight edge thick stripes and prefer them to have a reduced amount of lines and in cool funky directions. The lighter the gold coloration on the back the cooler I think it looks too as oppose to a really dark brownish spider with dark sides and thick dull black striping all over and especially down the spine I would prefer one that has high white sides, a bit of yellow even and a really light gold coloration with a more vibrant black patterning that's not entirely connected. Yours appears to be in between what I like and what I would consider a poor quality one.

MrLang, I went to a few of the big named breeders' sites looking at their queen bees and I see what you mean about the spots!! I also saw the yellow you refer to but also a good amount of whitish looking coloration too on the sides that seemed to fade into yellow but that might just be the pictures. Thanks for the help. The more I get the hang of this I see why I got jumped when I first came to this site thinking I could spend 4-6 years and line breed all my single genes into good quality lol It makes a huge difference the quality of the animals used in a program once you start getting more then 2 genes in them. Which is why I want to know exactly what to look for once I start acquiring some :)

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Originally Posted by greco

Before you commit to breeding spiders, be aware that they carry genetic flaws that can sometimes be fatal or require euthanization. It's called 'wobble' and most spiders have it to some degree. Even those that don't show ANY signs of wobble still carry these genetic flaws and they can be passed on to their offspring.

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1) I didn't mean to 'thank' for this post. Mobile is stupid.

2) Your statement is untrue. Share one example if a wobble requiring euthanasia or leading to an animal's death?

Here is my little queen bee I just produced. I love her. :)

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/11/8e6umaga.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/11/u8a5u7yr.jpg

Amazing yellow. That's some of the best yellow I've seen I'd really like to know her lineage. What were her parents and could you post pics?

Mom, bumblebee
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/11/va9edaqa.jpg

Dad, blonde pastel lesser
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/11/yjajugym.jpg

http://www.reptileradio.net/ball-pyt...l-spiders.html

http://www.reptile-community.com/smf...ic=8641.0;wap2

http://www.arbreptiles.com/lastword/spider_wobble.shtml

http://ballpythonbreeder.com/terms-e...ll-disclaimer/

I didn't come in here to start an argument, I just wanted to make sure that, as someone who's thinking about breeding spiders, they're aware of this issue. I almost bought a spider as my first morph, thinking that they looked cool and being completely unaware of their potential problems... when I found out, I was glad I went with a pinstripe instead.

I didn't see anything in regards to fatality. Someone choosing to euthanize a snake is a choice they made. I have looked extensively into spider gene animals and have yet to find a reliable source who says there is a high fatality rate much less one at all. I do not consider ANY INTERNET FORUM OR BLOG a reliable source by any means.

I have a degree in criminal justice. I represent myself but I wouldn't offer internet advice. Damn sure wouldnt take it in regards to anything such as a serious topic as this.

Please post statistical data from a breeder such as NERD or BHB and then we can start making intellectual theories to start working through.

Thanks

Bumble bee X Blonde lesser, that makes complete sense. Little by little I think I'm figuring out what to expect from certain pairings when breeding morphs. Thanks for the info on the parents and pics too!

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Originally Posted by DooLittle

Mom, bumblebee
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/11/va9edaqa.jpg

Dad, blonde pastel lesser
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/11/yjajugym.jpg

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Any chance dad is actually a blonde mojave? I ask because the queenbee looks more like a pastel spider mojo than a queenbee in my opinion, either way its a beautiful example.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/11/dyzepe4a.jpg

Here is my queenbee girl from last year. I would say she is up there in quality her color has begun to brown a bit. I wish i can find a pic of her brother who i sold he was an A+ example.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by ApReptiles

Any chance dad is actually a blonde mojave? I ask because the queenbee looks more like a pastel spider mojo than a queenbee in my opinion, either way its a beautiful example.

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No, none.

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Originally Posted by greco

http://www.reptileradio.net/ball-pyt...l-spiders.html

http://www.reptile-community.com/smf...ic=8641.0;wap2

http://www.arbreptiles.com/lastword/spider_wobble.shtml

http://ballpythonbreeder.com/terms-e...ll-disclaimer/

I didn't come in here to start an argument, I just wanted to make sure that, as someone who's thinking about breeding spiders, they're aware of this issue. I almost bought a spider as my first morph, thinking that they looked cool and being completely unaware of their potential problems... when I found out, I was glad I went with a pinstripe instead.

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Fair enough, but of the 4 links you posted only 1 of them even has the words fatal or euthanasia involved.

Of the posts in the 1, 2 people cited anecdotally that they believe maybe possible it may have happened a few times to people who are not themselves that a spider died because it was a spider.

The one person who mentioned problems cited a HGW / Spider breeding, which is known to have severe issues up to death.

TL;DR - until you can find an example of an individual who had a spider die or had to euthanize a spider under his or her own care due to the spider wobble, don't throw the words euthanasia and fatal into a post in context that suggests it as fact.

MOST of the time Spider genetic morphs that have Severe wobble/Train wreck will be sold as Pets or Kept by breeder.

Most of the time they are fine. They just well are... "Corki" and wobble around, iv seen some severe coconut pied who wobble and there siblings who are normal... My lil lav spider girl has a slight wobble when i first pick her up but straightens up after.

spider is fine, some have more or less of a wobble, but for an animal in captivity that really doesnt matter. i never heared about issues with fertility or life expectancy. some have issues with accurately hitting the prey during feeding because of the wobble, but thats about it.

you just cannot combine spider with other genes that have the wobble, especially not HGW or champagne.

EDIT: also, spider is the second most common morph after pastel, with the second highest number of known combos after pastel. that would not be the case if it would really be bad. it also means that there is a tremendous amount of knowledge about this morph and its issues. and everyone says the same: yeah its fine, they have the wobble but thats alright, just dont combine it with certain other genes.

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Originally Posted by ElliotNess

I do not consider ANY INTERNET FORUM OR BLOG a reliable source by any means.

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I would trust anyone who is semi established in the hobby over some of the big names actually. Even with that said I have only seen 1 claim in my entire time browsing forums of someone that had to put the animal down and disappeared after getting put through the ringer of why he felt it was needed. About all he had to say was it couldn't eat and didn't explain farther or give the animals to someone with experience to see what they could do.

So 1 claim that didn't even hold up well, out of multi-thousand of spiders? I'd say your chances are pretty good.