What would you get???

I am just getting into this hobby. I love genetics and I am starting with a pair of het pieds because I want to incorporate pied into all my future morphs. My question is from a less expensive approach what would be your top choices of single or double gene males and females? I am growing slow and from hatchlings and I cannot spend any more then 200 dollars per snake. I'm looking for a solid foundation that I can work with.

Go with what you like. I'm in the same boat, just getting back into it, and I'm finally getting the morphs that I love. I'm not basing choices on what's profitable, but on what I like. For me, it's mojave and lesser morphs, hypo, and champagne morphs mostly, so I have a huge normal girl and am adding a champagne het hypo male, pastave male and pewter female to start.

Why the normal girl?

Would you suggest that I get one or two large normal girls? I know it a 1/4 chance to get the morph and 1/4 would be het the other half would be normals. Is it worth the time and wait and grow hatchling females or get breeding ready normal girls?

I don't breed yet, but I'd say don't get any normal females if you can afford good single-gene morph females. Normals can be hard to sell, so consider that... Also consider that a normal costs just as much to feed / house as a morph.

I would suggest going to a show and seeing what you can find in your price range. I am sorta in the same boat as you.. I am not certain that I want to breed yet, but am going to be purchasing all females to start and only getting morphs that I like (so that I can enjoy them as pets as well as potential breeders). I was pretty lucky and picked up a pastave female at a show for $250... So she is a 2-gene animal and will give me lots of options should I decide to breed her.

Given that you already know you will be working with recessive animals (pieds), I'd suggest trying to find some morph females that are also het pied. Also check out currently produced pied combos and see which ones you like and purchase morphs based on that.

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het pieds because I want to incorporate pied into all my future morphs.

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I would not worry about males as of now if you want to do Pied combos, I would suggest to either get a few more Het Pied females to grow up to size and in a year or so save for a male that is het pied (Mojave Het Pied, Enchi Het Pied, Pinstripe Het Pied, Black Pastel Het Pied etc).

Of course the odds will not be as good as saving up for 1 or two pied females but it will get you there.

Or you can buy some single gene females to raise up now that you will be able to pair with a Pied male that you will hopefully hatch out from your hets.

If it was me I would go with Het Pied Female or Pied Females. :gj:

Like Deb said, Dont get males yet Grow up some Het pied females (66-100%)

Then save up for a Visual male, whether it be normal pied or Pastel pied, or any of the variations, But they aren't tooo expensive atm, And that way you can give more of a gaurentee to the Het part of the normal lookers.

if you cannot afford to spend more than 200 dollars per BP, is it worth it to start breeding now, or should you save up and wait until you have more money?


normal females can be of limited use when you have a really nice 3 gene or 4 gene male. when a double-gene male is the best you can afford, then normal females wont help you at all. i would stay away.

expect the whole thing to be very expensive. 200 dollars or less is the bottom segment of the market, and when you buy BPs from that bottom segment of the market and breed them together, then most of the hatchlings will also fall into that category, and the few hatchlings that are better because they beat the odds will most likely be holdbacks.

like, for example, when you breed het pied to het pied, you mostly get 66% possible het pieds that are worth less than the parents. and when you hit a visual pied, you are holding it back. with all the costs involved, hatchling rack and incubator and thermostats and food and supplies for the hatchlings that dont sell right away, it really would be a mistake to expect anything other than red numbers for the first few years.

What I want to do is buy hatchlings and raise them up so I know the snakes. That is really what I want to do. For breeding i am wanting to get ideas on direction more then anything. I figure if I could pick up some one or two gene ball pythons for $200 or so then i would have a good foundation any ways. A little back ground on me. I have many hobbies and all hobbies pay for each other. By that I have a saltwater aquarium that pays for itself and it also bought my genetic hackle chickens that I raise for fly tying and its now a small business. So these hobbies are paying for everything ball python way. I have done my homework on what I would need and i have a couple racks ready and all I need to do is buy the rest of the bins and also put the heat tape in them. I am also buying a thermostat from a local guy here in my area to control the first rack and Ill save up for the second. The incubator I have was an old chicken incubator that I have modified. Its a cabinet incubator that I can control the temp and humidity almost pin point. So I have a bunch of the equipment and now I am just look for what everyone else would do genetic wise. I love genetics and I kinda fell upon ball pythons doing a genetics search and I really like the options. My fist thought was I could take a normal femal and a pastel and work my way up and do my breeding from ground zero kinda, but as I get to thinking I think that one gene animals iis the way to go. Unless I can find two gene animals that are around $200 for hatchlings, the madness is going to be with the male to breed them all to. I need it to be at least het for pied, but the other genetics are up in the air and I will spend $$$ on that guy. Anyways this is my plan. Its a longer term plan then most but I do things some what in moderation. Let me know if you think I am headed in the right direction or not. Thanks.

Sounds like you've been doing your homework. This is a great resource that I used when I first started too. Good luck, and always remember to have fun with this wonderful hobby.

p.s. I sent you a PM

Mike

ball python hobby paying for itself or another hobby? i wish you the best of luck. :D
this is something you do for the love of it. i do not mean to discourage you, you obviously have good research skills which is a great tool to have, but i want to save you from disappointment if you expect a positive financial return. many have dreamed of all the cash flows from selling ones own hatchlings (guilty here), majority of those dreamers have quit, but a few of us accepted the fact that ball python breeding is not a profitable endeavor. yet we still do it because of the non-monetary satisfaction. i do make some money out of selling hatchlings, but it's nowhere near what i spent buying the breeders, feeding, caging expenses, etc. thank heaven's i have been spared from vet bills......

on a side note, you may still generate a some cash by breeding and growing feeders. if you have the right market, enough space, and a few hours of extra time, money from rodents could be enough to sustain the ball python hobby or even make it a little profitable.

I want to do it for the genetic aspect of things and of course a right off. It fits into ag. But mainly for the genetics involved. I enjoy combining them that is one reason why starting with single or double gene animals doesn't bother me. There are not many people in my area and I think low scale I could get rid of normals. So we will see. I appreciate the heads up for sure. Thanks.

i think if you want to make some money by breeding reptiles, its much easier with other species.

for some species, like ball pythons and leopard geckos and even retics, there are so many people breeding them that its really hard, competition is tough, and prices for normals are low. of course you also have so many morphs because so many people work with these species.

but its different for other species like green tree python or jacksons chameleons, where even normal juveniles fetch a lot of money.

i see how rhodents can work because demand is so massive, and people like to buy locally because shipping frozen rhodents is so expensive.

there is also lots of money to be made with spiders. sure, a little tarantula spiderling might only cost 10 dollars, but price increases as they get bigger and does a jump when the females can be identified. and you can get 100 little ones at a time.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

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for some species, like ball pythons and leopard geckos and even retics, there are so many people breeding them that its really hard, competition is tough, and prices for normals are low. of course you also have so many morphs because so many people work with these species.

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This is the crux of it - and I"m not speaking as a breeder, just a pet owner and buyer.

The reality is, the ratio of breeders to pet owners in BP isn't exactly right. The reality of the situation is, A BIG percentage of buyers are breeders. Breeders don't need common single genes, normals, or a lot of males. Even those animals that do sell to pet homes... Well, let's be real, how many people are keeping that pet snake for the life of the snake? Lots of second hand snakes floating around from that, too.

Their popularity as breeders is just out of whack with their popularity as PETS. I mean, yeah, they're recommended to people and they are great pets and not exactly obscure but... the ratio of people wanting to breed them compared to people who want to own them isn't one that supports 'low end' snakes having homes. People are GIVING away single gene and normal males. Rescues are DROWNING in them. Even retail right now normal ball pythons in my area are selling for - 19.00 a baby. RETAIL - which is not exactly known for being cheaper!

I don't know what I would get. Well, I do, but it wouldn't lead to a return of money but because I thought it was pretty (breeding is not something I have any desire to do) Lesser, cinnamon, black pastel, mojave, butter, are all things I like a lot and aren't super expensive.

or I'd get a normal female, actually, but only because I'd love to have a bigger snake than my boys are likely to be.