Male vs. Female visuals/hets?

Im getting very interested in the hypo gene and would love to mix it in with my current breeding plans. When breeding for recessive traits I know its best to breed visual to visual. I’d also rather have a co/incomplete dom trait + hypo to up the genetic power of my animals. I’m planning on buying one visual and one het. I’d rather not gamble on proving out poss hets, so I’m definitely going to be buying 100% het. The question is: is it better to have the male be the visual (thus lowering the cost and being able to spread the gene to multiple het females), or the female (females are already more expensive, and I figure having a het female would save a bit on cost compared to a visual female)? I’m leaning towards a visual male, with females being het, but I just wanted some advice on the matter.

Yes I would suggest a visual male...That way if you decide to breed him to something that isn't Hypo you still make 100% Hets...

Id personally say Visual male

As you want only a couple power house 3-4gene males

to a bunch of 1-2gene females!

I only work with visual recessive females when possible, but I also have have limited room so I wouldnt be keeping 3,4,5+ hets for the same gene anyway. I prefer visual females because then you could breed any multi-codom male to the visual female, you can be 100% sure all of the babies are hets (Im paranoid as I had a female retain sperm over 3 seasons) and male babies can be bred back to the female quickly. Its also easier to sell hets (if your not a big, well known breeder) when you have pictures of a visual female on eggs.

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Originally Posted by coldbloodaddict

Yes I would suggest a visual male...That way if you decide to breed him to something that isn't Hypo you still make 100% Hets...

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I would also do it this way.

Jon has a lot of experience and knowledge, but as an individual with a rather small collection, I choose to go with visual females when I can and het males if I can't afford a visual male. This is because it will take longer to grow a visual female baby to replace her mother than it will to grow a visual male baby to replace his father. I usually have to look at it this way, if I hold back an animal, what animal will I be selling to make room for that holdback? The downside to this is that I can't spread the gene faster unless I risk possible hets. You just have to decide what factors are more important to you. Both ways have their advantages and disadvantages.

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Originally Posted by coldbloodaddict

Yes I would suggest a visual male...That way if you decide to breed him to something that isn't Hypo you still make 100% Hets...

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True, unless you bred the female the year before and she retained some sperm. When you have a visual female, there is no doubt every egg that comes out of her is het.

Normally I'd say Visual female
breed w/e genes you want to the female
make genes + het male
breed back to mom, chance for genes + visual.

You could also pick up a multigene het male to start with and be producing visuals first shot, if you hit on a male to replace your current one, the female still can do a lot for you.

Tell you what, Jon has some nice hypos, and if it weren't for the potential for BCI's and retics to wind up regulated by the Lacy Act shortly I would have purchased some from him already. As it is my husband and I shifted our plans to get more boas and a retic next year up to this year, so QT is full of boas, the checking account is empty, and BP purchases will resume in 2015.

For recessives I personally prefer het females from a reliable breeder, and a visual male. I also like each to have another codom gene. So, my black pastel hypo male could be paired with a pastel het hypo, pinstripe het hypo, cinnamon het hypo, yellow belly het hypo, etc.

As far as I know, there is no genetic reason to choose the het male route over the het female route. Choice is determined by economic and other non-genetic factors. My own preference is homozygous male x het female, but your mileage may vary. Good luck.

It really depends on where you want to go. I think for my breeding, I'm going to want mostly visual females, for the reasons listed above. Then, ideally I'd get a 2 or 3 gene male, either with one of those genes being the recessive het, or even not carrying the recessive, since you can make your own hets by breeding to her and then produce visuals a year later by growing up one of the sons. However, if funds are tight, you might decide to go with a visual male and a het female. Or, if space isn't tight, and you want to do several different projects with that recessive gene, getting several het females may be a better choice.

Thanks for all the tips! I can definitely see the benefits of a visual female on the eggs as a 'marketing' tool. Especially since I'll be brand new on the selling scene. I think I'll be starting out with visual males, just for cost consideration (though I'm sure I'll be getting some visual females in the future, just not for the next year or two). I'm willing to bear the cost of having one visual/one het, rather than having to make my own to continue the project. Its an interesting juggling act with time, money, and space all being factors.

With visual males, I like that I'd be able to pair a visual male with multiple females. Especially if they're good combos I can put them with a non-het female and I'll still have 100% het hatchlings with good visual genes. Though I did just put a deposit on a hypo pastel female > > The price was right and my birthday is soon, so I consider it a birthday purchase. I needed a pastel girl anyway, and the hypo is just the cherry on the cake. :)

visual females are quite useful, because males reach sexual maturity so fast that you can upgrade them rapidly.

lets say you have visual hypo females, and then a male mojave spinner (mojave spider pinstripe) that isnt even het anything.

now you hatch out things like jigsaw (mojave pinstripe) het hypo, or spinner het hypo. hold back the males, and they can be ready in less then a year. so you have a chance to hatch out visual hypo + nice extra genes in your second season. and in your third season, you can do visual male + extra genes to visual female.

upgrading the females takes much longer.

so i guess i would start with visual females, and with males that are 100% het and that do carry interesting extra genes.

with hypo its quite important to keep improving, because you see all the other genes. hypo jigsaw, hypo pewter, hypo bee, hypo kingpin, hypo mojave enchi, and also combos with other recessives like hypo pied and hypo clown, it all works really really well and its very visual.

Pricey Visual males to Het females... 1 Male to 3+ females.

only One female to 1 male (unless you play who's your daddy but then genetics are out of whack)

So thats why getting that power 3+gene male is worth while.