Question about the new possible boa constrictor ban

Ok so I've seen this circling around the Facebook world about a new possible ban on boa constrictors and them being added to the Lacey act.

My question is are they only focusing on TRUE boa constrictors like BCI,BCC,BCO...or are they going to play to peoples ignorance and ban ALL boas, which just happen to be constrictors?

For example I have a dumerils boa, who you could technically call a boa constrictor if you have no idea about snakes. She's the sweetest snake I have, and if she possibly gets banned I'm going to be furious. :mad:

My understanding from reading the proposal is that the five species to be regulated under the Lacey Act are:
DeSchuensee's Anaconda
Green Anaconda
Beni Anaconda
Reticulated Python
Boa Constrictor

BCC (boa constrictor constrictor) and BCI (boa constrictor imperator) are both subspecies of boa constrictor so they would be included, along with the other subspecies such as amarali, longicauda, etc.

I don't get this Lacey act at all


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by colton62

I don't get this Lacey act at all


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

There is nothing to get. It's stupid, ignorant politics. Lots of drum beating on the dangers that really don't exists.

Government has become too big. We lose rights daily and do nothing about it. Sadly reptile keepers are a very select group, so who cares about us right?? But in reality they work their way into everything. I'm seriously surprised people are still aloud to drink. But prohibition failed because the masses stood up.

There just aren't enough of us to count, unless USARK has enough $$ to lobby.

Lacey act is a total kill joy!!

You can come get my snakes... I keep them right next to my guns...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElliotNess

You can come get my snakes... I keep them right next to my guns...

---

Those make for horrible hides sir.

What is being proposed isn't a ban, it would regulate these species like the other four on the Lacy Act. The biggest problem is that interstate transport and sales would be cut off along with imports from outside the US.

Time to stock up on retics.

This is just killing all the breeding being done. I've always loved Burms and want a granite but now I can't because the government thinks that they're dangerous.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by colton62

I don't get this Lacey act at all


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

The Lacy act was put into place to protect species from being exploited in nations where they offer no protection from export. Basically, the original purpose of this was to ban the import of these species into the US even if the country of origin will allow them to be exported (either legally, or illegally through bribe). This gives animals a chance to prosper by taking away the pressure from the import of these species into the US as "rare" commodities. The lacy act in and of itself is a very powerful tool. However, it is being twisted by the government at current to be used as a method of control for species crossing state lines, because this law specifically regulates these animals not only from import, but from crossing state lines.

Take away the government trying to regulate the snake trade (leave that to the states) and the Lacy act is a GREAT thing (places like Africa will pretty much allow you to get endangered species out with a bribe, as well as many countries in South America). But given the way the government is abusing its power (Shocked face) its turning a good thing into a horrible thing.

The species being regulated are the species being listed by the FWS, or at least what the FWS defines as a species. (While Burmese pythons were declared a separate species from Indian rock pythons, FWS ignored this. In addition, if Boa constrictor imperator is declared a separate species from B. c. constrictor based on recent new evidence, they would likely ignore this as well.) The Lacey Act regulations generally go by specific scientific names, not common names. Dumeril's boas are taxonomically arranged as Acrantophis dumerili, not Boa constrictor, therefor, they are not a boa constrictor and not proposed to be regulated.
The regulation itself only prohibits interstate transport and importation. In other words, it would be a felony if you took your prohibited species from, say, Texas to Oklahoma because you were moving or attending an expo. It would also be illegal to ship out of state, as most online breeders do. Therefor, it would end the online sales that typical ship across the country, such as selling a prohibited species from California to South Carolina because that would mean the animal is leaving one state and entering another. In general, the law kills both the availability as well as a motivation for breeding them. But it does not ban keeping them altogether, although local and state regulations vary and some do put outright bans on animals that are regulated by the Lacey Act or the Endangered Species Act. In addition, it is also still legal to export your animals, so in theory, you could still breed a prohibited species to sell to Europe or some other foreign market, although shipping is much more expensive as you can imagine.

The currently prohibited species are as follows:

• Indian Rock Pythons (Python molurus, including Burmese pythons as FWS recognizes them being a subspecies, P. m. bivittatus)
• North African Rock Pythons (P. sebae)
• South African Python (P. natalensis)
• Yellow Anaconda (Eunectes notaeus)

The other snakes originally refrained from being listed and are now being considered for listing are as follows:

• Boa constrictors (Boa constrictor; all subspecies, including but not limited to B. c. constrictor, B. c. imperator, and B. c. occidentalis)
• Reticulated Pythons (Python reticulatus or, being that FWS recognizes it, Broghammerus reticulatus. Includes all subspecies and dwarf races.)
• Green Anaconda (Eunectes murinus)
• De Schauensee's Anaconda (E. deschauenseei)
• Bolivian Anaconda (E. beniensis)

*Please note that De Schauensee’s anacondas and Bolivian anacondas do not exist in the North American or European trade. For whatever reason the USGS included it in their "study" is unknown.
The only reason why these animals were chosen is because they were considered in the USGS's deceptive "study." I would not be surprised if they were to do another "study" including ball pythons, dumeril's boas, and many other python and boa species and considered barring their ownership as well, simply because they can't consider any new laws or listings without having "evidence" to refer to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by colton62

This is just killing all the breeding being done. I've always loved Burms and want a granite but now I can't because the government thinks that they're dangerous.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

You need to move to Texas. :gj: Just saw some Burm juvies at a recent expo.

Edit:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reptileexperts

The Lacy act was put into place to protect species from being exploited in nations where they offer no protection from export. Basically, the original purpose of this was to ban the import of these species into the US even if the country of origin will allow them to be exported (either legally, or illegally through bribe). This gives animals a chance to prosper by taking away the pressure from the import of these species into the US as "rare" commodities. The lacy act in and of itself is a very powerful tool. However, it is being twisted by the government at current to be used as a method of control for species crossing state lines, because this law specifically regulates these animals not only from import, but from crossing state lines.

Take away the government trying to regulate the snake trade (leave that to the states) and the Lacy act is a GREAT thing (places like Africa will pretty much allow you to get endangered species out with a bribe, as well as many countries in South America). But given the way the government is abusing its power (Shocked face) its turning a good thing into a horrible thing.

---

And this, exactly. The listing of the current snake species is nothing short of abusive use of the Lacey Act.

The Dumeril's Boa may not technically count as a boa constrictor, but people are kidding themselves if they think the HSUS and USFW are done with proposing bans. After boa constrictors, you can bet money that the other snakes will soon follow. Which is why people need to get involved NOW and donate to USARK, not just wait until it's something that personally affects them.

I've been ruminating on getting my first red tail boa for awhile, and now I feel like I need to get on it while I still can! The fact that misinformed fear mongers can put regulations like this into law makes me so angry...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whatsherface

I've been ruminating on getting my first red tail boa for awhile, and now I feel like I need to get on it while I still can! The fact that misinformed fear mongers can put regulations like this into law makes me so angry...

---

I know, I accelerated my purchases too. I had planned to get more BP's this year but put those plans on hold for the last 2 boas that I want.

Serious question though. How can they monitor the interstate commerce? They can't inspect every package and have someone on duty that is familiar enough with snake species to be able to identify them. And for in state sales, are there permits and stuff needed to prove you are from the state? Like if I went to Texas as mentioned earlier and bought a burmese python. Do they have to check that I am from Texas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have so many problems with this... Regulation is one thing so people know what they are getting into but a ban?... When I was growing up the local petco was selling burms a lot which was a joke, I doubt any one knew what they were getting into when they saw all the cute small babies at the store but a ban is stupid and to include it on the Lacy act is worse. I wrote my comment to them finally and used some of the info provided here and some other things I found on my own. It took me a few days to calm down though before writing it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alan12013

I have so many problems with this... Regulation is one thing so people know what they are getting into but a ban?... When I was growing up the local petco was selling burms a lot which was a joke, I doubt any one knew what they were getting into when they saw all the cute small babies at the store but a ban is stupid and to include it on the Lacy act is worse. I wrote my comment to them finally and used some of the info provided here and some other things I found on my own. It took me a few days to calm down though before writing it.

---

I agree. Maybe they should put into effect some sort of system where you have to be licensed to some degree in order to purchase and own them, to stop people from buying large pythons without prior knowledge on growth and potential size.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by colton62

Serious question though. How can they monitor the interstate commerce? They can't inspect every package and have someone on duty that is familiar enough with snake species to be able to identify them. And for in state sales, are there permits and stuff needed to prove you are from the state? Like if I went to Texas as mentioned earlier and bought a burmese python. Do they have to check that I am from Texas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Texas actually has a licensing system for Burms and other giants which I am perfectly okay with. (Nothing wrong with a $20 ownership permit which you can just buy or renew at the local Walmart.) This aside, you don't need the permit to even buy the snake unless the seller decides to require it, as even a receipt acts as a temporary permit.
Anyway, I agree with your post as it brings up a perfectly valid point.
Personally, I might put off my plans for a new pair of Macklot's pythons to have a chance at nabbing my first Boa constrictor or a pair before it's too late. Which is a shame. This fear alone is already stabbing the market.
------

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by colton62

I agree. Maybe they should put into effect some sort of system where you have to be licensed to some degree in order to purchase and own them, to stop people from buying large pythons without prior knowledge on growth and potential size.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

As I previously stated, I personally think Texas' permit system is perfect. :) It's there, but not impossible to obtain by any means, which is great.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by colton62

Serious question though. How can they monitor the interstate commerce? They can't inspect every package and have someone on duty that is familiar enough with snake species to be able to identify them. And for in state sales, are there permits and stuff needed to prove you are from the state? Like if I went to Texas as mentioned earlier and bought a burmese python. Do they have to check that I am from Texas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Yep you have to have a Texas address for the breeder to file. Once you've provided that it's on you to follow the law.

I can totally understand getting permits to stop irresponsible ownership, but it floors me how ignorant a lot of these anti-snake people are. Shortly after I got my boa I was linked to an article about how large constrictors will kill you, your children, then take over the world. To my knowledge a lot more people die from dog attacks...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ispitroseas

I can totally understand getting permits to stop irresponsible ownership, but it floors me how ignorant a lot of these anti-snake people are. Shortly after I got my boa I was linked to an article about how large constrictors will kill you, your children, then take over the world. To my knowledge a lot more people die from dog attacks...

---

That's exactly how I feel. People just don't give snakes a chance. Anyone see that video about the dog attacking a kid and the cat saved the kid? The kid had to get stitches and if it weren't for the cat it would of been worse. Everyone talked about it for a week saying, oh that's why you don't leave dogs unattended. But if that was a snake, specifically a large python, attacking a kid media would blow up. Nearly 4.5 million people are subject to dog bites yearly with 1 and 5 serious enough to have the person seek medical help and in 2012, 27,000 people had to get reconstructive surgery because of dog bites. Since 2000 there has been about 240-250+ people killed by dogs. And how many have snakes killed, specifically large pythons? About 4-5 in freak scenarios. People need to overcome their fear, since fear in this situation is just pure ignorance and learn that 99% of snakes have no desire to attack or kill you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by colton62

That's exactly how I feel. People just don't give snakes a chance. Anyone see that video about the dog attacking a kid and the cat saved the kid? The kid had to get stitches and if it weren't for the cat it would of been worse. Everyone talked about it for a week saying, oh that's why you don't leave dogs unattended. But if that was a snake, specifically a large python, attacking a kid media would blow up. Nearly 4.5 million people are subject to dog bites yearly with 1 and 5 serious enough to have the person seek medical help and in 2012, 27,000 people had to get reconstructive surgery because of dog bites. Since 2000 there has been about 240-250+ people killed by dogs. And how many have snakes killed, specifically large pythons? About 4-5 in freak scenarios. People need to overcome their fear, since fear in this situation is just pure ignorance and learn that 99% of snakes have no desire to attack or kill you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Exactly. It makes me very upset that people can't see past their ugly, learned, biases. I mean, have you seen the USHS "large, deadly constrictors" page? It's awful. And given the figures they provided ants kill more people in a year than these snakes have in decades.
And I bet if dog laws were even close to snake laws people would pitch a fit

Cause every family owns a dog. If you couldn't travel state lines with a dog and had to be licensed to buy one. People would go crazy in uproar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by colton62

Cause every family owns a dog. If you couldn't travel state lines with a dog and had to be licensed to buy one. People would go crazy in uproar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

You know, only the LARGE and DANGEROUS dogs. The ones people just let roam free because they didn't have the proper space requirements

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ispitroseas

I can totally understand getting permits to stop irresponsible ownership, but it floors me how ignorant a lot of these anti-snake people are. Shortly after I got my boa I was linked to an article about how large constrictors will kill you, your children, then take over the world. To my knowledge a lot more people die from dog attacks...

---

When I got my ball pythons, a few people freaked out. Because they are PYTHONS they will get giant and kill my cats, dogs, and child!

The saddest part is, unless you are actually in the field of herpetology and know better, media bias and hysteria has inundated all fields. I was talking to a coworker last week (a fellow biologist! ) about this ban. not only was she not aware of it (not a huge surprise), but she was convinced boa constrictors were invasive and had populations throughout this country! She didn't even realize boa constrictor is its own species, and not a term to use when referring to boids in general. Part of her faulty knowledge has come from the USGS study trying to show burmese pythons can colonize all of the southern areas of the United States. I took probably a good hour explaining all of it.

I've gotten the sizing up bull:cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: when I first got my baby boa


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk