zoos housing snakes together

It's generally agreed by snake owners that snakes should not be housed together, unless they're breeding or are a particular type of snake, but then why do zoo's house their snakes together? I've been to many zoos and they all had snakes, especially green tree pythons, housed in the same cage together and it wasn't even close to breeding season so there was no reason for them to be kept together. it's not like they were housing only copperheads and rat snakes together, So i'm wondering why do they do it when they of all places should know better.

Unfortunately a lot of zoos don't know better, or don't care. It costs more money to house them separately, and most of the general public doesn't know they shouldn't be housed together.

I wouldn't consider the average zoo a model for best husbandry practices...

My husband took this picture at the Baltimore Zoo in MD earlier this year when he was a chaperone on a school field trip. The zoo is co-habbing a copperhead with a timber rattler.

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps188354b0.jpg

My local zoo has several green tree pythons and a carpet python in the same enclosure.

Its like visit a zoo to find out what not to do. "This place is a zoo" there is a reason that such a saying exists. Its chaos and neglect

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Originally Posted by wescoast

Its like visit a zoo to find out what not to do. "This place is a zoo" there is a reason that such a saying exists. Its chaos and neglect

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Wow perfect description. Very sad..but true.


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I have seen zoos that house snakes together. The tanks always held the same species or ones with similar husbandry and the tanks were all immensely bigger then anything anyone would use in their home. It's not a good idea to house snakes together except for breeding (or the few communal species) but when I have seen zoos do it they have all been done vastly better then compared to the people I have heard of that do it in their homes. Not saying all zoos do it well but the ones I have seen did.

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Originally Posted by Faolan

It's generally agreed by snake owners that snakes should not be housed together, unless they're breeding or are a particular type of snake, but then why do zoo's house their snakes together?

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Generally agreed to by who? Co-habitation is generally not recommended only because many people new to the hobby have a hell of a time providing for the needs of one snake - let alone two. It's not only species dependent, but also dependent on the size of the enclosure - among other things. Cohabitation is done more than most forum "experts" realize and done without incident.

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Originally Posted by Buggidy

Unfortunately a lot of zoos don't know better, or don't care. It costs more money to house them separately, and most of the general public doesn't know they shouldn't be housed together.

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They probably care more than you realize. It actually can cost much more money to house them together correctly - and most hobbyists who keep only a couple of species are completely and utterly ignorant to the fact that many species can be cohabited with no problems whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by wescoast

Its like visit a zoo to find out what not to do. "This place is a zoo" there is a reason that such a saying exists. Its chaos and neglect

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Or a forum. Bunch of people buying animals they have no idea how to care for, cutting corners to save a few bucks and refusing to take their animals to a vet when they get sick. Then giving out advice to other people who are clueless, cut corners and can't spare the time or money to properly research and provide for the animals they keep.

I've sold animals to zoos and I've sold animals to private individuals - guess which group I would rather sell to.........

Put it this way: Keeping multiple snakes in one enclosure properly is like keeping a cobra; it's for the experts only because there are consequences for messing up. Professional zoos pull it off because they provide both large and cluttered enclosures to give plenty of separation for the animals while providing them a comfortable living environment. In addition, they have to put in a naturalistic set up simply for the viewing pleasures of their visitors. All this is a lot of extra expensive and hard work, most of which Average Joe pet keeper does not want to - or can not - invest in.

Zoo animals are also under a level of scrutiny you might be surprised to learn about. In addition to the patrons walking around the zoo all day, several employees will work behind the scenes, checking the animals, feeding them, weighing them, observing them from the outside, and even rotating them out with other hidden stock in some cases when they even suspect a problem. I have had the opportunity on a few occasions to visit a wonderful lady who works in the Smithsonian National Zoo, and she showed us around behind the cages. You really would never realize how much attention is paid to these animals unless you had been back there yourself and seen the detailed logs they keep. You could never hope to provide such attention to detail to your own collection in part due to the funding and partly due to the volume of staff. This is why they can be successful housing multiple snakes together.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

...The zoo is co-habbing a copperhead with a timber rattler.

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps188354b0.jpg

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

...They probably care more than you realize. It actually can cost much more money to house them together correctly - and most hobbyists who keep only a couple of species are completely and utterly ignorant to the fact that many species can be cohabited with no problems whatsoever....

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:agrees with skip:


Why is is so terrible to house these 2 snakes together?

Using this pic and statements and adding an example: In PA copperheads and timber rattlers live in the same area and have similar husbandry. So in the wild, it is quite possible for these 2 snakes to cross paths without incident and possibly overlap territories. When I was a kid and watched the discovery channel and they would show pictures or video of rhinos, zebras, giraffes, lions, hyhenas etc all drinking from the same water hole at the same time without incident, does that mean the rhinos and zebras kept at the philly zoo should be cohabbed together? There are many animals outside of snakes in the philly zoo which are cohabbed. If their needs are met, then why not? It gives a more natural veiwing of how these animals would intereact in the wild.

I will agree some enclosures should/could be set up bigger or better, IMO. Most of the time, they fit the need(s) of the animal/animals kept their in.


Sometimes studying our animals/pets instead of "keeping" them can open our minds to greater capacity for thinking, viewing, and understanding.

Heh. I'm glad I came up long enough ago to have to try it myself instead of listening to a bunch of sockmonkeys give advice on something THEY'VE NEVER DONE.

While our scaly pals are living creatures, we are also the ones who keep them and if no one ever tried anything other than the 'accepted' methods, a LOT of us would not have any snakes at all. Sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't. Sometimes the snakes thrive, and sometimes they die.

Strangely, this also happens to those very sockmonkeys who keep them alone, as their fellow pooflingers insist they must.

So tell me, oh monkeys both great in number and possessing boundless wisdom, why are you right again? How is it that YOU know so much?

Learn people. Try. Fail. Succeed. LEARN.

But don't let the sockmonkeys rule.

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Originally Posted by Pyrate81

Why is is so terrible to house these 2 snakes together?

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The enclosure footprint was 3'x3'. In the wild yes, these two species will encounter each other or even over-winter in the same den, and then go their separate ways in the spring. It does not mean that two should be housed together in less than ten square feet of space, giving the public the impression that the practice is ok.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Heh. I'm glad I came up long enough ago to have to try it myself instead of listening to a bunch of sockmonkeys give advice on something THEY'VE NEVER DONE.

While our scaly pals are living creatures, we are also the ones who keep them and if no one ever tried anything other than the 'accepted' methods, a LOT of us would not have any snakes at all. Sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't. Sometimes the snakes thrive, and sometimes they die.

Strangely, this also happens to those very sockmonkeys who keep them alone, as their fellow pooflingers insist they must.

So tell me, oh monkeys both great in number and possessing boundless wisdom, why are you right again? How is it that YOU know so much?

Learn people. Try. Fail. Succeed. LEARN.

But don't let the sockmonkeys rule.

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Most of the longtime members of this forum know your opinion on this matter, and you can continue to express it as long as you want. There is, however, no need to be juvenile about it.

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Originally Posted by Pyrate81

:agrees with skip:


Why is is so terrible to house these 2 snakes together?

Using this pic and statements and adding an example: In PA copperheads and timber rattlers live in the same area and have similar husbandry. So in the wild, it is quite possible for these 2 snakes to cross paths without incident and possibly overlap territories. When I was a kid and watched the discovery channel and they would show pictures or video of rhinos, zebras, giraffes, lions, hyhenas etc all drinking from the same water hole at the same time without incident, does that mean the rhinos and zebras kept at the philly zoo should be cohabbed together? There are many animals outside of snakes in the philly zoo which are cohabbed. If their needs are met, then why not? It gives a more natural veiwing of how these animals would intereact in the wild.

I will agree some enclosures should/could be set up bigger or better, IMO. Most of the time, they fit the need(s) of the animal/animals kept their in.


Sometimes studying our animals/pets instead of "keeping" them can open our minds to greater capacity for thinking, viewing, and understanding.

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Timbers and coppers live together in Kentucky as well. I have seen them huddled together in dens or underneath fallen trees. In my opinion it is not a bad thing to house animals together in captivity that house themselves together in the wild. As long as they are not predatory against each other or ill from overcrowding and stress.

EDIT: To go off what Bcr229 said, I do think the enclosure was extremely small if it's only 3x3 but then again I wonder if that is only a temporary display and if the animals are moved into larger enclosures away from public eye. I am not picking a side on the debate, because I know nothing of zoo practice. But I think there is a lot to be learned on both sides. The zoo perspective as well as the personal hobbyist or keeper.

^^ good info on those snakes.



IMO, a 3x3 is probably fine for those snakes in a good/proper set up.

I also assume the PHD who decided to put them together in that enclosure wasn't a complete moron and actually studied the animals for an extensive amount of time before doing so.


I'll be the butt if I assume wrong.

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Originally Posted by Pyrate81

^^ good info on those snakes.



IMO, a 3x3 is probably fine for those snakes in a good/proper set up.

I also assume the PHD who decided to put them together in that enclosure wasn't a complete moron and actually studied the animals for an extensive amount of time before doing so.


I'll be the butt if I assume wrong.

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Haha, your Ph.D comment made me laugh. I do know a few herpetologists with Ph.D's who work in a zoo setting. And I can say from my own experience that they did their absolute best to study, provide and understand the animals they were attending to in their field. The real question comes down to this: are inappropriate settings the fault of the Ph.D's or the zoo itself?

I would argue the zoo almost always. I believe that when animals are being housed incorrectly (I am not referencing the coppers and timbers) the blame usually falls on the keepers. But in reality the keepers didn't build those enclosures- at least to my knowledge they didn't. Definitely not the dimensions, anyway. They were hired to take care of the animals already in them.
This is probably obvious information to 99% of everyone, but I wanted to go ahead and reiterate it in case someone runs across this post eons from now, lol.
When I am trying to think critically I usually sticky note all the questions and sub questions in my mind as I read the situation. In this case, the zoo, the herpetologists and care takers are all separate factors.
Anyway, that was my 1 cent, haha. It probably wasn't worth 2 xP

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Originally Posted by SaintTawny

There is, however, no need to be juvenile about it.

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I don't know about you, but I giggled. Have fun being uptight. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Painted

Haha, your Ph.D comment made me laugh. I do know a few herpetologists with Ph.D's who work in a zoo setting. And I can say from my own experience that they did their absolute best to study, provide and understand the animals they were attending to in their field. The real question comes down to this: are inappropriate settings the fault of the Ph.D's or the zoo itself?

I would argue the zoo almost always. I believe that when animals are being housed incorrectly (I am not referencing the coppers and timbers) the blame usually falls on the keepers. But in reality the keepers didn't build those enclosures- at least to my knowledge they didn't. Definitely not the dimensions, anyway. They were hired to take care of the animals already in them.
This is probably obvious information to 99% of everyone, but I wanted to go ahead and reiterate it in case someone runs across this post eons from now, lol.
When I am trying to think critically I usually sticky note all the questions and sub questions in my mind as I read the situation. In this case, the zoo, the herpetologists and care takers are all separate factors.
Anyway, that was my 1 cent, haha. It probably wasn't worth 2 xP

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Good points. I'm in a situation where my nature center dictates what the animals are kept in. Which I'm working to improve. I figured a zoo would/should be more willing/able to provide better for their animals. But red tape and budgets and other factors dictate certain things...

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Originally Posted by Pyrate81

But red tape and budgets and other factors dictate certain things...

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Why would budget be an excuse? If you can't afford it, don't keep it. That goes for individuals as well as zoos. I'm not saying the animals should be living in the equivalent of the Taj Mahal or a five-star hotel, but the space requirements for herps are pretty minimal compared to larger herbivores, big cats, etc.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Why would budget be an excuse? If you can't afford it, don't keep it. That goes for individuals as well as zoos. I'm not saying the animals should be living in the equivalent of the Taj Mahal or a five-star hotel, but the space requirements for herps are pretty minimal compared to larger herbivores, big cats, etc.

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Unfortunately there are stupid/selfish/greedy people in the world who want to have and show animals but don't know how to properly care for them nor realize the time, effort, and money it takes to KEEP healthy animals. They are willing to keep them, but not do the research to keep them healthy. Some people will let an animal get injured or die and replace it without feeling bad because it's cheaper than taking it to a vet.


PS- I do agree, if someone can't afford it then someone shouldn't have it.

I think it should also be noted that many zoo's don't actually house their snakes in the display enclosure you see 24/7. Many are merely moved to that display during business hours.

im not saying that's good or bad, just wanted to point that out.

i was lucky enough to do an internship at Australia Zoo working with rescued animals that would be brought in, or removed from populated areas. You would struggle to see a more caring knowledgable and enthusiastic group of people.


im sure there are a lot of iffy zoos out there, but I don't think we should generalize. Just my 2cents