I think this little guy is taking "granite" up a notch.......

My first clutch of the year is hatching out finally. As of now, two of them are out, while there are 3 more peeping.

But this one little guy............

OK here are the parents:

Dad (Bryan) is a definite genetic granite.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...6/Bryan524.jpg


This is mom (Brianna) who is being bred back to dad. I assumed she was normal because though she does have a minor amount of granite speckling, I didn't consider it enough to count.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...annaclutch.jpg


Now I'm beginning to wonder.

While 2 of the eggs died (one never developed and went bad while the other baby got tangled in his umbilicus), all 5 of the surviving babies will be granites.

This is one of the two that is out, and three of the others appear that they will look similar to this one:
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...0624-04544.jpg

Same baby, belly shot:
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...0624-04546.jpg


And then there's this guy, who is just insane-looking:
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...0624-04552.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...24-04560-1.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...0624-04561.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...0624-04568.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...0624-04571.jpg


Any ideas? I'm wondering if the granite maybe has a super form? I've produced granites from Bryan before, but this is the first year I could breed daughter back to him, and I've never produced anything like this before.

I would assume mom has the granite gene also? Neat looking babies. Congrats!

Thanks. :) That's what I'm thinking also. She has to also be granite. The weird one is a male, I guess the next thing to do is see if he will prove out as a super? I can't seem to find out much about the granite gene. I have read about there being a super form, but I couldn't find much else except that there are several lines of granite and all of them seem to present themselves differently.

Congrats, they look really cool! I really like the darker baby!

To answer your question: http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/super-granite/

That is one cool looking guy.
Glad to know I am not the only one working with a couple granites. ;)

Thanks! :)

I also ran across this one last night:

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/5562/dsc1350e.jpg


This person was apparently working with granites that look fairly similar to my original one.
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/fo...php?f=16&t=151

So maybe there's hope of proving him as a super. Only time will tell (and I thought the waiting was over lol).

Let me just say I know absolutly nothing about snake genetics and the mom and dad look pretty much the same to me with the exception of the number of dots on the dad's back. That being said that little dark boy is something special, he is a extreamly nice looking guy! :gj:

Granite is a hard thing to find solid info on. I work with a granite that is either dom or co-dom (still haven't tried for super). What it looks like to me is that both of you parents are low expression granites and the super dark guy with the big drag in pattern behind his head is the super form. Either that or he is a high expression version. I believe most granite is co-dom though.

Thanks everyone. Hopefully I can have the other 3 siblings out of the eggs this afternoon and get some pictures up of the entire clutch.

The one I labeled B2 may be this possible super as well, but I can't get a good enough look until it gets out of the egg. The one that died in the egg did not appear to express granite at all, so given 6 viable eggs, it would stand to reason that I might have a no-expression, several granites, and a super (or two), considering that a het to het cross should yield roughly a 1:2:1 phenotype ratio.

Looks like I'll be repeating this pairing next year to get more data, not to mention hanging on to a female from this bunch.......

Looks like yours a proven genetic.
There are so many granites that are not, I wonder if that is why so many dont deal with them. Breed that little black dude bqck and see what happens.

That dark baby looks like a sable.

On one of the links that was posted, it looks like the super form is quite a bit darker than the regular form. That looks like what you've got going on here. The super granite on WOBP I think is something different. That's a problem with granite... I think there are actually several different genes, possibly allelic or possibly totally unrelated, that all have the same name attached to them.

I have always liked the dark stuff and that second hatchling you have is a beauty. I'd also breed him back to momma to see what you get! :gj:

the main problem is that in dinker import hatchlings from africa, granite is basically the most common trait you will find. you get reduced pattern dinkers and busy/whacky pattern dinkers and full backstripe dinkers and granites. other morphs sometimes pop up, like pastel or hypo (thats one of the reasons why there are so many lines of these), but not nearly as often as granite.

and some of these are genetic, some of them are not genetic, and of the genetic varieties some are dominant and some are codom. but i guess a whole lot of them are just unproven and noone knows.

so, yeah, granite is complicated. and when someone proves out a nice genetic line of granite, a smart move is to give it a new name to set it apart from the rest of the amorphous mass that people call "granite".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kc261

On one of the links that was posted, it looks like the super form is quite a bit darker than the regular form. That looks like what you've got going on here. The super granite on WOBP I think is something different. That's a problem with granite... I think there are actually several different genes, possibly allelic or possibly totally unrelated, that all have the same name attached to them.

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I completely agree. It almost looks like every proven line of granite I'm seeing is a slightly different gene, because they all do something a little different with the pattern. The weird thing about this one is that it seems to be expressing itself in two different ways, aside from the possible super. One is like the lighter baby. My boy Ace from 2009 (see my sig) is from the same dad as these babies are and also exhibits this expression. Then the other one is a more passive expression like what the father of this clutch (as well as the mother) has. I'm also trying to figure out how those are connected.