Super Butter Daddy

My 2nd clutch just hatched, bred Butter Daddy x Butter Daddy. Hit on the Super, first for me!!! Beautiful little girl. Clutch also produced another butter daddy, butter & three hets.

http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/...ps98c653b2.png

I love it..

Err.... I must be mistaken about how the "daddy" gene works, cuz those results don't make sense according to what I thought it was. Anyone care to clue me in?

According to everything public so far, butter and daddy are allelic so there is no super to hit. I wonder if it is a butter daddy x BEL paradox? Also you should of only had BELs, Butter Daddys, and Super Daddys (Which look like nice normals as far as we know). So I don't where the butter came from either. The "hets" shouldn't be hets, they should be super daddys, breed em to a BEL and make all Plattys.

Could you post pictures of the parents with some background info on where they came from? also could we see the other babies from the clutch? This is very interesting. Maybe the gene doesn't work as previously reported?

guys, thanks ... since posting I've been having similar conversations with my breeder friends. It is my first and agree, not sure what I've got at this point. I jumped to the conclusion it was some form of "super platty" given the head pattern. But could be a Super Butter Paradox as well. I'll snap a pic of mom & dad and post shortly. Original female purchased from Ralph Davis in '08. This is my 4th clutch of Butter Daddy's from pairing that original to a butter, and this was my first attempt at BDxBD. Either way, she's a keeper!

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

According to everything public so far, butter and daddy are allelic so there is no super to hit. I wonder if it is a butter daddy x BEL paradox? Also you should of only had BELs, Butter Daddys, and Super Daddys (Which look like nice normals as far as we know). So I don't where the butter came from either. The "hets" shouldn't be hets, they should be super daddys, breed em to a BEL and make all Plattys.

Could you post pictures of the parents with some background info on where they came from? also could we see the other babies from the clutch? This is very interesting. Maybe the gene doesn't work as previously reported?

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OK, that's how I thought it worked. But the results of the clutch don't make sense if the genetics of the parents are actually what they are believed to be. As you said, the one pictured could be explained by being a paradox. But there shouldn't have been a regular butter. Hmm. Interesting.

OP, if you don't mind, pls post pics of the whole clutch! And mom & dad too.

I'd like to see the whole clutch and parents as well. I'm very skeptical on the whole het. Platty thing. I really haven't seen any significant different in snakes that are considered to have the Platty gene.

sorry for the delay, busy weekend ... here's a couple more pics:

full clutch:
http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3fe9edb3.jpg

mom & dad [mom is '08, produced -3- clutches, dad is '12 from her 2nd clutch ... so they look identical ... sorry they went nuts, could not get them to coil}
http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3e7777f1.jpg

Hmmm. Father of dad was just a plain butter?

i think you hit a paradox there :)

but somehow i cannot make sense of the clutch. there should be 3 possible outcomes: super butter, butter daddy, and super "het daddy". but i see 4 shades of color there. if we assume that the paradox should be (or genetically is?) the all-white super butter BEL, there are still 3 colors left.

maybe the massive inbreeding flushed some other recessive trait to the surface?

about the "het daddy": the single-gene form is basically invisible, and the super form is just a tiny little bit lighter than a normal. like halfway between a normal and a low-quality hypo, something like that. and its in the BEL complex, and by far the weakest BEL gene, weaker than mojave or mystic or phantom or special. so to really get the gene to work, you need a strong gene from the BEL complex, like lesser/butter. then you get the platty daddys / butter daddys. thats how i believe it should work.

so this clutch needs some explaining. looks like you maybe hit a paradox super butter, a butter, a butter daddy, and the other 3 could be super het daddy or het daddy. which would mean that somehow a normal male sneaked in and its a multi-sire clutch or something like that. but im no morph ID expert, it could be something else going on. there definitively is a mystery that needs to be solved here.

Looking at the whole clutch, even the "paradox" colors seem to be off, look more crystal like to me. Very interesting, I really don't know what to make of it, but i feel everything (including parents) should be bred to a super butter or lesser to give some insight. I know that would be a massive undertaking and wouldn't expect that out of anyone, just I would really like to see some insight on what is going on genetically.

I really hope you can keep us updated on them, you might of accidentally opened a can of worms lol. But obviously it needed to happen.

looking at a blbc thread on the same animal someone suggested retained sperm as a possible reason for the butter.... which is possible depending on the previous pairings. That would also make us question the het or super daddys, as we would not know what they are actually if there is a possibility of retained sperm.

The color on the "paradox" still has me wondering though.

yes, father of dad ... plain butter.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

i think you hit a paradox there :)

but somehow i cannot make sense of the clutch. there should be 3 possible outcomes: super butter, butter daddy, and super "het daddy". but i see 4 shades of color there. if we assume that the paradox should be (or genetically is?) the all-white super butter BEL, there are still 3 colors left.

maybe the massive inbreeding flushed some other recessive trait to the surface?

about the "het daddy": the single-gene form is basically invisible, and the super form is just a tiny little bit lighter than a normal. like halfway between a normal and a low-quality hypo, something like that. and its in the BEL complex, and by far the weakest BEL gene, weaker than mojave or mystic or phantom or special. so to really get the gene to work, you need a strong gene from the BEL complex, like lesser/butter. then you get the platty daddys / butter daddys. thats how i believe it should work.

so this clutch needs some explaining. looks like you maybe hit a paradox super butter, a butter, a butter daddy, and the other 3 could be super het daddy or het daddy. which would mean that somehow a normal male sneaked in and its a multi-sire clutch or something like that. but im no morph ID expert, it could be something else going on. there definitively is a mystery that needs to be solved here.

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... thanks, wow really confused now. :)

I like the retained sperm explanation. When was she last with the butter? Or with anyone else other than her butter daddy son?

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Originally Posted by kc261

I like the retained sperm explanation. When was she last with the butter? Or with anyone else other than her butter daddy son?

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tried to breed her last season to the butter, did not go.

Just beautiful:O. Big congrats!

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Originally Posted by fatSNAKEs

tried to breed her last season to the butter, did not go.

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then i think thats the explanation.

so you got 1 super butter paradox, 1 butter, 1 butter daddy. and the 3 normal looking ones are het daddy, possible super het daddy.