Effects of food quality...Watch your Protein

I have tried 3 different brands of food with my small colony, and have seen noticeable effects with each change in diet.

When I first started out, I was feeding my 1:3 breeders Kaytee Forti-Diet Pro Health, which I picked up at my local pet store. On this brand, I was loosing pups left and right, the rats had an unpleasant smell, and bad allergies for some of them.

After a lot of reading, I switched my colony to Mazuri Rodent Diet (not 6f version) and had greater improvement in rat size, growth, and pup health. My rats never sneezed and seemed to really prefer this brand. However after a few weeks, my favorite little rat mama - a hooded american blue began "rusting", and it continued to spread up her back till she was almost completely tan. The rats didn't smell any better, but it was a different odor now.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...3/img_7662.jpg

After more reading, I concluded Mazuri Rodent Diet was far to high in protein and I could see the effects of it in my weaned pups. An adult, non-breeding rat will do well on 14-16% protein diet. The Mazuri I was using was 23% (Harlan also makes a 24% protein lab block). Breeding females and growing pups need a little more protein than non-breeding adults, but in my opinion, lower protein = healthier rats.

I decided to try Harlan 2018 (18% protein) which is formulated for breeding rats and young and conveniently available at my local feed store. I like this brand because of the ingredients - no animal product, ground wheat/corn vs Mazuri's dehulled soybean. I supplement with mealworms, veggies, egg and dog treats (Fruitables). Since making the switch I have noticed less smell than Mazuri, still plump healthy pups/no losses, no sneezing, and the rats can't seem to get enough of it.

My favorite rat mama is changing back to the deep gray that I love so much, the rusting effect is nearly gone, and all of my rats are noticeably more shiny.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...3/img_7820.jpg

I'm not saying Mazuri is a lesser brand - I'm actually curious about trying the 6F version (16% protein) and interested in what you may have noticed with your rats and what brand of rodent food is giving you the best results...

Yikes! to me 20% + seems really high for an every day diet! I try to stay around 16%, so 18% sounds reasonable. I Maybe the 20% + would be good to specifically feed to preggo ladies and pups, but I would definitely switch back and forth when they're off duty.

I just supliment the 16-18% food with seeds and beef suet bird treats for my ladies when they're on the job. :)
Interesting mini study! :gj:

Thanks for sharing. This conversation comes up a lot here and on other forums and Facebook groups. I used Mazuri 6F for a while and it worked well, but it was hard to get ahold of and overall lackluster. I now feed Doggy Bag brand Dog Food after finding it on a number of fancy rat breeder forums and after talking with a fancy rat breeder in my area who has been using it as a preferred feed for several years:

http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/...=&cm_vc=-10005

If you check out the ingredients and stats, it's right in line: 18% protein, Wheat and Corn, yes it has animal product in it but I haven't had problems with greasiness or cannibalism from it. For $15 for 40 lbs, I feel it's the best choice in terms of balancing cost with quality (for a RAT, NOT a dog!!!)

Nice little report on the foods.
I have thought about looking into some new foods but I cant find anything that beats the price of what I am using now.
http://kentfeeds.com/products/other-...dent-products/
I use the 19% stuff and have never had any issues, that and it only cost me $16.39 for a 50lb bag (Or $147.51 for 500lbs)

MRLang, for $15 you can also get 40-50lb hog food from most places. In my opinion it is a better chow for mice and rats. One big thing I don't approve of in doggy bag is the use of 'animal' products, and 'animal' bone. It does not specify what sort of animal is in there, or what sort of products are in it, so I steer away. It also feels greasy to me, because they spray the pellets with artificial and natural flavors to make dogs want to eat it (poor dogs!). The hog food doesn't have this, because i guess pigs don't care what their pellets smell like! :P
It also contains BHA which is a suspected cancer causing agent, and menandione, which has been linked to liver problems.


It's a personal choice, but these are my opinions on the two feeds.

King James, it looks like kent makes a 23% rodent food as well. Makes me wonder... Someone, somewhere out there is clearly having success with high protein, and there is a demand for it. But everyone I've ever spoken to that's put any thought into it, seems clearly opposed to using such a high protein level.

I have thought about using it in my maternity tubs..but never made the jump. I think when used correctly and sparingly it might be handy...but never as a standard food.

Good Thread I am going to start a rat breeding program Thanks for the info.

Lady M

It would be interesting to compare how well breeding rats do with a higher protein diet vs breeders on a low protein diet. In my experience with litters raised on Mazuri, the pups did well and grew fast. However, after being weaned onto food, they became bloated/fat. This was not megacolon because within days of switching to the lower protein Harlan, the small rats slimmed right down to a healthy size.

Perhaps to some extent the higher protein diets are for bulking up rats - I can't imaging a breeding female rat really needs +23% protein when she can thrive on 14-16% when she isn't carrying. Just seems like too big of a jump in percentages to me.

I also looked into feeding my rats a dog food and came across Natural Balance Vegetarian Formula (http://www.petco.com/product/10962/N...-Dog-Food.aspx) It's got an awesome ingredient list and protein at 18%.. I might invest in a 5 lb bag and feed it to one of my breeding groups for the sake of my curiosity.

My rats were healthy on a high protein diet, but they are doing even better on a lower one - which makes me curious about trying Mazuri 6F because of just 16% protein and yet I have read some great reviews about it.

But I think what's most important - no matter what type of food you feed, is the ingredients. Ground wheat/corn/soybean is only so good, which is why I offer fresh veggies, mealworms, and a vegetarian dog treat (fruitables) on different days of the week.

I use Mazuri 6F for my rodents. I don't have a huge colony yet so my numbers of comparison are pretty small, but I feed this to all my rats. For my pregnant and nursing moms, I also supplement with Pedigree Large Breed dog food for some supplemental protein. The others do not receive the dog food. Once I wean my babies, they no longer receive the dog food either. My females stay of good body weight after they delivery and pups grow large and fast. Out of five litters that I've had born, I've lost no pups after delivery. My holdback rats are also growing nicely and don't appear to be obese or have any health problems.

Purple python, you might try offering seeds and oats and whole grain cheerios as treats rather than fruits and veggies. Rats and mice rarely eat fruits and vegetables naturally, and most can have minor negative effects (bloating, diarrhea) on their digestive systems (few can have very bad effects, but none are especially good for rats and mice).

Whole grain cheerios (the sugar free kind) are a real big hit with most rodents! :)
I would also recomend not using a vegetarian dog treat, but going with a natural freeze dried chicken kind instead (if you're looking for something natural). The meat is healthy for them, and they really like them.
The mealworms are definitely good for them! Crickets are fun too, it's great to see the rodents turn into wild animals and chase crickets around! :rofl:

Interesting comment on the hog feed. Any specific brand you advise or just look at ingredients and balance?

Appreciate the insight on BHA and Menandione.

The Kents stuff I posted a link to is made as a hog feed.
They realized people were buying it as rodent food so they started marking it as such. The bags it is in is the same as the hog feed bags. The only difference is that they changed the tag on the bag to say rodent diet instead of swine diet.

I know at-least in the area I was from most of the breeders used Kents and no noticeable issues.

I swear by it, I have been feeding it exclusively (other than treats to my "pet" rats) for going on two years now and have not had any problems.

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

Purple python, you might try offering seeds and oats and whole grain cheerios as treats rather than fruits and veggies. Rats and mice rarely eat fruits and vegetables naturally, and most can have minor negative effects (bloating, diarrhea) on their digestive systems (few can have very bad effects, but none are especially good for rats and mice).

Whole grain cheerios (the sugar free kind) are a real big hit with most rodents! :)
I would also recomend not using a vegetarian dog treat, but going with a natural freeze dried chicken kind instead (if you're looking for something natural). The meat is healthy for them, and they really like them.
The mealworms are definitely good for them! Crickets are fun too, it's great to see the rodents turn into wild animals and chase crickets around! :rofl:

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Thanks Rhasputin, I only offer produce once a week and usually greens, carrots or apple. Freeze dried chicken is a wonderful idea! I just picked some up, and it's cut into nice small servings, my breeders loved it. For the most part, prefer to keep my rats on primarily a vegetarian diet simply because I don't trust a lot of the animal products in feeds. But thank you for the recommendation, I will definitely make it part of my feeding schedule.


If I didn't have such an irrational hate for crickets, it could be fun to offer some up.

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

I use Mazuri 6F for my rodents. I don't have a huge colony yet so my numbers of comparison are pretty small, but I feed this to all my rats. For my pregnant and nursing moms, I also supplement with Pedigree Large Breed dog food for some supplemental protein. The others do not receive the dog food. Once I wean my babies, they no longer receive the dog food either. My females stay of good body weight after they delivery and pups grow large and fast. Out of five litters that I've had born, I've lost no pups after delivery. My holdback rats are also growing nicely and don't appear to be obese or have any health problems.

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That's an interesting concept and sounds effective. I think if I switch to 6F or a lower protein percentage I will try something similar to make sure the breeders are getting the amounts they need. How is the smell with Mazuri 6F? Another thought I had was that higher protein = stinkier rats. Since switching to Harlan the smell has greatly reduced!

I have a 2.7 group + babies. I clean every 5 days and I don't notice an odor at all

I recently changed from Mazuri 6F to Native Earth (which is Harland Teklad 18%). I'm not 100% sure I'm going to stick with the change yet. My rats seem equally as healthy, but it seems to me that there is more odor. Perhaps because of the higher protein. Perhaps because the Mazuri adds yucca which is supposed to help control ammonia odors. Perhaps just because I made the change around when the weather warmed up and that always makes odors more noticable. I've decided to try some Sweet PDZ to see how much that helps. Too soon to know about that yet.

King James, I'm curious about the Kent food. Since you say it is exactly the same as the hog food, just with a different label, does that mean it is the same little pellets that most hog food is? Or is it bigger pellets that can be fed through 1/2" hardware cloth without just falling through?

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Originally Posted by KING JAMES

The Kents stuff I posted a link to is made as a hog feed.

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Now that's interesting!

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Originally Posted by MrLang

Interesting comment on the hog feed. Any specific brand you advise or just look at ingredients and balance?

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Many hog feeds are medicated. Avoid those. I believe they are required to label it as medicated, but at least in years past it was sometimes in kinda fine print, so do actually read the label. Beyond that, I'd just do what you said...look at the ingredients & nutritional info.

The Purina stuff always says medicated in large print. :gj:

Every brand of hog feed I've seen wrote MEDICATED in huge letters and had a different colored label than non medicated.

Also, I was looking at hog feeds and something struck me as odd. A brand they sell near me has "blood meal" in it. What's with that? Is it okay for rats? o.o

It is okay for rats. I would prefer the label say what -kind- of blood they're using, but it's likely fine. It's almost certainly cow or pig blood.