Spider Ball Pythons

I have the chance to purchase (from different people) a male and female spider. The female appears to be much higher quality. The male is 80 and the female is 100. Do you guys think this is a good deal? I am a business owner who is trying to start keeping and potentially breeding reptiles as a hobby and these will actually be my first snakes. Any advice is appreciated!

Personally, I would grab the female and pass on the male. Do you know how old they are?

The female is 1 year old and looks nice. The male was hatched december 2013. Here are the links:
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/pet/4512873726.html
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/pet/4516685722.html

What are your breeding plans? How many clutches are you looking at to get started?

I still say grab that female, pass on the male, and pick up a few more females to grow up some, then start looking at a male or two...depending on how many clutches you plan on getting...

I am still unsure of what I would like to breed and how many clutches. The idea of a good quality male (not sure of morph yet) mating with 3 females that I should be able to acquire easily like another spider (in hopes of some really good quality spiders), a lesser, and a pastel. From my understanding all those morphs work pretty well together? The male would probably be a lesser (I can get ahold of one too but for 200 i think, or 175). I really like the looks of the spiders and also some of what they produce like the bee. Starting off with just one male and female for year one doesn't bother me either. In fact breeding a couple of the same morph in hopes of creating a really good quality snake sounds appealing so in the years to come I can start creating really awesome morphs with them. The market here seems rather poor if I just look at craigslist as an example. I'm watching snakes that are over 200 stay for sale forever and when they drop to 150 or less, or include a cage they sell. Having said that I think I could sell a higher number of snakes at lower costs then the more exotic morphs. I do want to breed the more rare ones and create some myself but that is years into the future. This is just the first year where I've got my life situated to start doing this on a daily basis. I appreciate your advice so far so thank you! I have emailed about that female already and hope to hear back tomorrow, if so pictures to follow :)

It is all personal choice in terms of quality ( for example I prefer the pattern of the male spider) but as long as you buy the ones you like you can't go too far wrong.

Prices do seem to drop every year so I like the idea of buying a female first and raising her ( or getting a yearling female ) so you know the snakes eating habits and body condition well before making the decision on breeding her.

By the time your female is ready to breed you might be able to get a dual ( or even triple ) gene male for a great price. :O

Always verify the sex first when purchasing off places like craigslist,or you will be saying this later!http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/s...c/censored.gif

Ah interesting way to go about it! That never occurred to me, that's pretty smart actually. I was looking at it as getting 2 pets and eventually breeding them but I would still have to wait to breed, still have to make sure the female is very healthy, all while taking care of an additional snake unnecessarily. Thanks for that advice! I think with that knowledge I'll go ahead and start looking at getting 1-3 females within the next few months and I'll wait on a male.

Some people believe that spider x spider will give you 25% dead snakes if you want to do that breed I strongly recommend researching about it. Also in case you don't know the spider gene does have a head wobble ( neurological problem) with it some people avoid the gene all together because of it. Not that I'm try to turn you away from spider I personal love them.


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These are some of the females that I can get right now to start taking care of and prepping for breeding:
0.1 2013 (early) BEL [Lesser x Mojave], 618g. $700 (small rats)
0.1 2012 Lesser Pastel, 889g. $550 (small rats) ... this is strange to me because the same person is selling a male "lesser" that is 120 but they said if I took both of them it would be 600 dollars
0.1 2013 Albino, 234g. $380 (weaned rats)
2013 Female Black Pastel 380 grams $250 obo
2010 Proven Lesser Female 1300 grams $450 obo
Spider female / 1375 grams/ offer (no wobble) This person is crazy as I think they are trying to get extremely high prices for all of their snakes. They said my 100 offer was way to low
lesser female/252grams/250
Pinstipre female /605 grams/275
Pastel Female/ 1755 grams/ proven/offer
black widow 900 dollars
450g female bumblebee yellowbelly make offer

Any advice guys?

http://www.owalreptiles.com/issues.php here a good page done by a member on this site about morphs that have issue.
Hope you don't mind owal


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Oh ya the neurological problems. I did forget about that when I made my post. I never heard of the 25% dead snakes though. The guy on snakebytes seems to think it's ok but I'm not a fan of breeding things with neuro problems so you're right I might stay away from spider on spider. I read that link and he makes some good points. They do survive well in captivity. I'll have to continue researching.

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Originally Posted by alan12013

neurological problems. I did forget about that. I never heard of the 25% dead snakes though. The guy on snakebytes seems to think it's ok but I'm not a fan of breeding things with neuro problems so you're right I might stay away from spider on spider.

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The community as a whole can't decide what happen to the Homozygous spider. All that that we know is big breed have try to produce some and haven't.


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In addition to my long list on the first page, I just emailed about a female lemon pastel that was hatched in 2013. This one looks amazing and her eyes are turning green. She's a very good looking one. Sorry for the long thread, I'm just trying to get this figured out so I can start collecting soon.

If you really like one get it get what you like that alway the best route the only one on that list I would stay away from as first breeding stock is the albino unless you where going to get everything albino


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All spiders are "special" for lack of a better term.
As others have said, you are looking at a couple of years before your hatchling buys would be ready to go.
Even if you bought ready to go girls, you still want to qt for at least 6 months.

Ok I think I like the spiders and pastels. After some reading I realized I should have left the "lemon" off of the lemon pastel lol... I wont digress there although I want to badly. I checked out your website Robert, pretty awesome! Seems like you have a good thing going. I almost took a pretty good job with CACI down there in San Antonio when I was in DC. Strangely enough now I own a cafe :/

I don't believe in pattern morph quality. It all depends on what you like. Personally I am a high white reduced pattern kind of guy, but I know a lot of people who perfer low white busy patterns. I'd go with the female if you are happy with how she looks. It's a better investment

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Originally Posted by decensored

I don't believe in pattern morph quality. It all depends on what you like. Personally I am a high white reduced pattern kind of guy, but I know a lot of people who perfer low white busy patterns. I'd go with the female if you are happy with how she looks. It's a better investment

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Or like me with pastels......................... I like a ton of blushing and dirty as can be.

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Originally Posted by 989josh

Some people believe that spider x spider will give you 25% dead snakes if you want to do that breed I strongly recommend researching about it. Also in case you don't know the spider gene does have a head wobble ( neurological problem) with it some people avoid the gene all together because of it. Not that I'm try to turn you away from spider I personal love them.


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And we call those people wrong. :P

Thanks for that advice on "quality". In the leopard gecko world you can have 5 of the same morph but people will only want the one that is the brightest or colored a certain way, there is a lot that they look for. This really helped my decision making, thanks again.

I'm very uneasy about purchasing my first snake but I've found an awesome seller and snake. She has kept the python for about 2 years and she got it at an expo for 300. It's a male lemon blast. She's asking 200 but I think before I leave to pick it up I'll ask for 175 since I saw a few days ago she did a "one time sale" add for that price. It's a very docile snake that gets handled daily. I'd love to hear some feedback from you guys if you could check him out. I uploaded a picture of him in my gallery. The other picture is of the "lemon" pastel female that I had mentioned earlier. The pastel has some amazing color! All in all this weekend will cost me 365 dollars and I should be picking up the 3 snakes, the other being the female spider I mentioned earlier. I'll also be spending 40 bucks for 6 veiled chameleon eggs which I'm also excited for! For a first group of snakes what do you guys think? I am about 90 percent sure on all of them and have already made a promise on the lemon blast so that one I have to get. There's a local breeder that has some pieds and several het pieds too that I was thinking some time down the road I could deal with...

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Originally Posted by alan12013

Thanks for that advice on "quality". In the leopard gecko world you can have 5 of the same morph but people will only want the one that is the brightest or colored a certain way, there is a lot that they look for. This really helped my decision making, thanks again.

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that's because some leopard gecko traits are polygenic, and can be replicated as well as improved further by linebreeding. in balls, there's no guarantee that certain traits (usually pattern or color inensity) you like will trickle down to the offspring. a clean and reduced pattern pattern can produce "dirty" offspring and vice versa. so my rule of thumb with ball pythons is to buy what i like (not what others like), this way i get to enjoy the snakes while waiting for them to grow big/old enough.

Thanks for that breakdown. That's what I've gathered after doing a bit of research. Just like that thread on the questionable spider that the pro's were saying was a spider even though it barely looked like one. The gene is there or not. When I first started considering getting into pythons that polygenic thing had me all sorts of confused lol The one I'm still confused on would be the pastels with the introduction of a "lemon" pastel, I understand that its a NERD line but at the same time I don't know if breeding it into a lemon blast (or spider) like I have planned would produce more yellowing. If I had to guess based off of what my current understanding is then I would say it wouldn't but I don't know. I'll get the hang of this genetic thing one day I hope lol

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Originally Posted by alan12013

Thanks for that breakdown. That's what I've gathered after doing a bit of research. Just like that thread on the questionable spider that the pro's were saying was a spider even though it barely looked like one. The gene is there or not. When I first started considering getting into pythons that polygenic thing had me all sorts of confused lol The one I'm still confused on would be the pastels with the introduction of a "lemon" pastel, I understand that its a NERD line but at the same time I don't know if breeding it into a lemon blast (or spider) like I have planned would produce more yellowing. If I had to guess based off of what my current understanding is then I would say it wouldn't but I don't know. I'll get the hang of this genetic thing one day I hope lol

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You could also skip buying off crags list, and wait till a up comming reptile show, There you can talk to each breeder see each snake, and learn ALOT, besides having a ton of fun all while at it! Aswell prices are much easier to negotiate!

Thanks. I just looked it up online and there will be a big expo walking distance to my house (portland expo center) in August! I will be there with out a doubt. I'm really not expecting the best off of craigslist but just for this year and next I really do want to get at least 3 snakes I can afford. I was fortunate enough actually to come into contact with some one that appears to be a good breeder (I've seen a few "breeders lately that are not taking care of their animals and when I learn what's all in their collection, even to me as a novice, seems like they threw a dart at a board to determine what they have). He said he would work with me on getting some pieds.

While I am now waiting for this upcoming expo that I have to save up for I decided to go ahead and get one. I got a male which I wasn't too excited for but I paid 110 for him and a very large cage that has an upper and lower compartment. It's a converted hutch with glass fronts, adjustable heat pads, and lighting system all done. I was told that he was aggressive but he's only struck at me a few times so I'll give him a week to settle in and get used to me before I start working on handling a lot. He's been exploring his new home a lot today which I think is a good thing. I attached the picture of him but I think it's upside down, sorry about that. He's 23 inches long and 4 months old. I'll have to wait and see what I can get at the expo to breed him with although now I think my plan is to have an economy group consisting of him paired with a pinstripe, pastel, and a spider or normal (can get a free normal female tomorrow). Then I'll have another group with some 2 gene snakes. I like him though and he looks to be at home here in my house of reptiles lol From what I've gathered though he wouldn't be considered the best "quality" since he doesn't have a reduced pattern with high white sides? Let me know what you guys think of my first BP! Thanks.http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file.../3/1/jroc1.jpg

Yep not even 1 full month in and I'm male heavy! I got my male pastel and I was lucky enough to score Kyle's free male 100 percent het ghost that he was giving away! That solidified my purchasing of a 2 year old female ghost that I'm getting at 165 cage included. So now it's looking like breeding year 1 will be Normal het ghost Ghost and maybe another TBD female and then my pastel X TBD. After that I worked out on excel some pretty cool options including some hypo pastels but my planning stops there for now until I know for sure what I'll pick up at the expo. Does anyone use software to plan breeding projects? I know that there is some for sale online but I'm just trying to get it all plugged into excel.

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Originally Posted by alan12013

Yep not even 1 full month in and I'm male heavy! I got my male pastel and I was lucky enough to score Kyle's free male 100 percent het ghost that he was giving away! That solidified my purchasing of a 2 year old female ghost that I'm getting at 165 cage included. So now it's looking like breeding year 1 will be Normal het ghost Ghost and maybe another TBD female and then my pastel X TBD. After that I worked out on excel some pretty cool options including some hypo pastels but my planning stops there for now until I know for sure what I'll pick up at the expo. Does anyone use software to plan breeding projects? I know that there is some for sale online but I'm just trying to get it all plugged into excel.

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I use excel pretty much most accurate when you know your %'s. I alos tried Reptile Scan on iOs its alright, but i stoped using for the feeding/defication part as scanning each tub was annoying, but i do use it for breeding records that it works well.

-Placed together
-Locked
-No lock
-Ovy.

Congratulations on your pickups!

I don't have much to add about your original purchasing questions, but did want to say that buying off CL and at shows... You'll want to pick up some PAM (prevent-a-mite) spray and some natural chemistry reptile spray... Mites are really easy for snakes to carry and can spread through your collection quickly. I purchased my first BP at a show a few months ago.. Did not appear to have mites, but sure enough, 2 weeks later I found her soaking in her water bowl. Everyone that I know of advises quarantine, but most also recommend pre-treating a new snake's quarantine setup with PAM and wiping them down with the reptile spray to head off any problems mite-wise. As someone that went through this, I'd really recommend doing this will all new snakes. You have to treat the enclosure bedding with the PAM and it has to be totally dry before putting a snake in it, so I would treat any enclosures you've setup prior to going to the show and bringing home new snakes.

Also, I agree with the others that you will want to see what's at the show... You can look at the vendor list beforehand and I would go to the fauna BOI (board of inquiry) and search for the vendors names.. See what feedback they have whether good or bad, then you'll know if you need to avoid buying from anyone. You can get some good deals at shows.. My first BP is a female pastave that I picked up for $250, not bad for a 2 gene female. That said, I would say you really do need to look for quality animals (pastels that are very yellow not browned out, etc.).. When I went to the last show there were many lower-quality 1-gene animals and it pays to find ones that look really good especially if you can get them for the same price. There are also usually many "flippers" at shows (those that buy from a breeder and then resell) although there isn't inherently anything wrong with these animals, usually they are lower quality and the flipper can't give you as many details on how the snake is feeding-wise, etc. as a real breeder can.

Good luck as you grow your collection!

Thank you! I will make sure to get some PAM before heading there for sure. I also just picked up a book written by a zoologist that covers this sort of stuff and he has a home made concoction too so if for what ever reason I fail to order the PAM I'll head to town for the ingredients. Thanks again for the info.