What genetics are in play here?

I ordered a male Spider 100% HET Genetic Stripe ball python from a well known breeder. I have never had any other problems with this breeder in the past. After the snake was shipped to me and I started taking a closer look at him I started thinking that maybe I got a Motley Bee (Spider Genetic Stripe). The reason I think this is when I look at other "Spider" Ball Pythons the "web" pattern wraps over the snakes back. Where as the snake I have has a clear stripe down his spine. Is it possible that a Spider could look like mine or did I get lucky and get a snake that actually has the visible genetic stripe gen instead of being HET for G.S.? Either way I wont be disappointed. I paid for the HET G.S so if that's what I have then great, but If I received a Motley Bee then it's just an added bonus. Please tell me what you think!


http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...614_135914.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...614_135932.jpg

Thanks!

I've seen genetic stripes influence the hets a lot. Looks to me like a cool looking spider. Best of luck with the project


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My 2cents...from what I've seen online and at shows...

Head looks faded like a Motley Bee. Has a full stripe that seems common for Motley Bees. The spider "webbing" however doesn't look fuzzy or blurry like I've seen on Motley Bees. It also doesn't have a yellow/orange glow around the webbing like what I've seen.

How old is this guy? A lot of the pics of younger Motley Bee's seem to show a brighter color than what yours shows.

Tough call...could just be the GS het in him...

Could just be the het playing with it like clowns and OG can sometimes show who is het.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Could just be the het playing with it like clowns and OG can sometimes show who is het.

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That's what I would go with also until proven otherwise...

He is pretty no matter what he is... but there seems to be quite an influence to make the head pattern so "normal". I'd really like to say Motley Bee, but it's all just talk until you prove it out!


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Thanks for all the input guys. I got this snake about 3 months ago actually a little disappointed because it didn't have the webbing like I had seen in other spiders. The other day I was looking at morphs and came across a motley bee and it looked exactly like mine. The more I looked into it the more I thought it was a motley. I am planning on breeding him to a Female pastel het genetic stripe.

This snake was hatched late 2011 and his last weigh in was about 750 grams. I didn't realize recessive genetics can visually change a snake even though it was het.

Once again thanks for the information and help.

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Originally Posted by Cold_Blooded_Designs

I didn't realize recessive genetics can visually change a snake even though it was het.

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That's because recessive, dominant, codominant, and incomplete dominant are words that humans invented to try to describe things they saw in nature. The terms work pretty well, but they aren't perfect. For example, het pieds tend to have the railroad tracks, and seem to have ringers more often than normals. If all het pieds had this, then it would be codom. But some het pieds don't show any markers at all. So it's not really a textbook recessive where you can't see any indication of the het, because some do have visible markers, but it isn't codom either. It's something in between.

Human blood type is another example. It actually follows the Mendelian rules a little better, but in this case, even the dominant gene doesn't visually change anything.

Thanks Casey
Thanks for the extra information. But that just opened up more questions for me. As far as the snake that I have what do you think it is? When I look at a spider BP it looks completly different that the Spider HET GS that I got. Now I understand that the "HET" G.S. can change the look of it but with out a few breeding seasons with him how can I tell if he is HET for GS or has GS? Sadly, this could change what I will pair him with if he is HET or not. If I had hatched this snake and planned on selling it I would lean towards selling it as a Motley Bee based on how it looks. I guess the question here is if I had the motley bee in the photo linked below and my snake how would I tell the 2 apart?

Motley Bee:
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/motley-bee/

and a Spider:
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/spider/

Looks like a perfect Spider het GS. Very nice snake. Hets really can show up quite strongly, here is an example, my pewter het GS.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...1_152351-2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Cold_Blooded_Designs

Thanks Casey
Thanks for the extra information. But that just opened up more questions for me. As far as the snake that I have what do you think it is?

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Yeah, I know. Genetics is definitely one of those things where the more you learn, you just find more new questions to ask.

As far as your snake, I don't know enough about how a typical spider het GS looks to offer an informed opinion. I totally see what you are saying about him looking a lot like a motley bee. But the spider pattern is highly variable, and when you combine in the influence of the het, I can also see it is possible that he is just a het that is showing through more than average.

There was a thread just a few days ago where a person thought his bumblebee might be a spinner blast because it didn't have the typical spider webby pattern, so you aren't alone with these kinds of questions.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-Spinner-Blast

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Originally Posted by Cold_Blooded_Designs

Thanks Casey
Thanks for the extra information. But that just opened up more questions for me. As far as the snake that I have what do you think it is? When I look at a spider BP it looks completly different that the Spider HET GS that I got. Now I understand that the "HET" G.S. can change the look of it but with out a few breeding seasons with him how can I tell if he is HET for GS or has GS? Sadly, this could change what I will pair him with if he is HET or not. If I had hatched this snake and planned on selling it I would lean towards selling it as a Motley Bee based on how it looks. I guess the question here is if I had the motley bee in the photo linked below and my snake how would I tell the 2 apart?

Motley Bee:
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/motley-bee/

and a Spider:
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/spider/

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Please do everyone a favor and don't guess. I probably would have sold this snake as a Spider possible GS. The "possible" says this is being sold as a Spider, but could possibly be a Motley Bee due to the genetics of the parents involved. You could even sell it at a premium compared to a regular Spider due to the possibility of it being a Motley Bee. Let any potential buyers know this, provide good pictures of the parents, even pics showing locks, and let them conclude what they will. This way, if it proves out that it isn't a Motley Bee, your name isn't brought up on a Fauna BOI thread ripping you to pieces because you defrauded someone...the BOI can get ugly... http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...splay.php?f=13

A reputable breeder always lists fewer genes when a gene is in question. That way they don't have to deal with a disappointed customer. A reputable breeder would rather not make as much on a single sale, so that their customer is happy and possibly get a additional purchases from that customer, or get referrals from that customer that lead to other sales. There is a good chance that you benefited from such a situation.

Have you checked with the breeder to see if full GS is even a possibility with this snake? Maybe he/she was making hets on purpose and bred a full GS to something else. Knowing the pairing would help you rule out a Motley Bee or not, but if you are not 100% sure I wouldn't sell it as such.

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Originally Posted by Slowcountry Balls

A reputable breeder always lists fewer genes when a gene is in question. That way they don't have to deal with a disappointed customer. A reputable breeder would rather not make as much on a single sale, so that their customer is happy and possibly get a additional purchases from that customer, or get referrals from that customer that lead to other sales. There is a good chance that you benefited from such a situation.

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I agree 100%.
I would rather take a hit to the wallet than a hit to my reputation any day.
The money loss you can recover, the reputation not as easy to recover.
I don't even chage extra for hets, not worth the hassle.